Isn't this mostly a case by case question since it hinges on the net amount at risk? Thats awesome that you got an acceptance for a 6 million dollar deal... Whats NA's requirement?
Isn't this mostly a case by case question since it hinges on the net amount at risk? Thats awesome that you got an acceptance for a 6 million dollar deal... Whats NA's requirement?
You are correct, it is a case by case question.
NA's only requirement is that you have the money to pay the premium........LOL Just kidding.
NA and Lincoln both have more liberal underwriting than most when it comes to senior citizens.
I know John Hancock touts "bring me your un-healthy, wealthy, and wise;" but I have yet to get a decent quote back from them on one of my larger cases.
The Standard and Lincoln National both have good SPWL products with good underwriting.
I am curious; have you considered a SPUL? I recently got an 84 year old man a 6,000,000.00 SPUL policy issued (Table 2) thru North American.
A good opportunity for more death benefit, which would help the "Wealth Transfer" cause. I hope this helps........
That must have been a nice payday....what was the premium? Compulife shows the premium at standard rates for an 84 year old male at $4,613,000 as the lowest of all carriers with United of Omaha....a table 2 rate would effectively make the premium higher than the death benefit, which wouldn't make any sense.
To answer the original question, I show Aviva, West Coast Life, Sun Life, and Genworth that will do a SPUL for an 80 year old woman. At standard rates, Aviva is cheapest at $529k, next is WCL at $549k. At preferred, Aviva is $471k and WCL is $475k. Not sure about a SPWL, but I'd guess the numbers to be higher than either of those...
Fyi, NA pays 95% of target and 1.5% on premium over target.
All you need is two cases a year and you can spend your days schmoozing at the country club to get that next sale.
Yes but what's the target? I'm a WL guy all the way but for 80 yr old GUL would make much more sense.
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Originally Posted by GonnaFlyNow
i dont' know anything about life insurance. why would someone pay a million dollar premium for a million dollar death benefit?
If you expect to pay taxes on your estate you can use lifetime gifting exemption of 1mm to fund an Irrevocable Trust. Death Benefit is almost always higher than the single premium (unless the insured lives past 100) and it can benefit the heir without any taxes.
Last edited by Franz Kafka : 05-26-2009 at 11:48 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
i apprecaite you trying to protect my ignorance. can someone answer my question?
Unless I missed something (entirely possible), no one said it would cost $1M for $1M. But, nonetheless, your question is still a good one. Why in the world would an 80 year old pay $1M for a $1M policy?
There is a perfectly good reason she might want to do this. I won't give you the answer, but I'll give you another question that if you answer will tell you.
What happens to that money when she dies if it's in a life insurance policy?
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Unless I missed something (entirely possible), no one said it would cost $1M for $1M. But, nonetheless, your question is still a good one. Why in the world would an 80 year old pay $1M for a $1M policy?
There is a perfectly good reason she might want to do this. I won't give you the answer, but I'll give you another question that if you answer will tell you.
What happens to that money when she dies if it's in a life insurance policy?
what's with all the mystery. gimmeabreak. what's wrong with a straight answer.
What happens to the money when she dies if its in a life ins pol? it dpends.
What happens to the money if she dies and its not in a life ins policy?
How is the life ins policy any better?
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Originally Posted by padthaiforlunch
Thanks, we're looking at $1 mil of premium.
Fyi, NA pays 95% of target and 1.5% on premium over target.
All you need is two cases a year and you can spend your days schmoozing at the country club to get that next sale.
TRK,
Padthai said that they were planning on paying 1mil of prem for this 1mil death benefit.
That doesnot make anys sense 2 me.
Last edited by GonnaFlyNow : 05-27-2009 at 08:29 AM.
Reason: Posts merged
what's with all the mystery. gimmeabreak. what's wrong with a straight answer.
What happens to the money when she dies if its in a life ins pol? it dpends.
What happens to the money if she dies and its not in a life ins policy?
How is the life ins policy any better?
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TRK, padthai said that they were planning on paying 1mil of prem for this 1mil death benefit.
That doesnot make anys sense 2 me.
You seem to be getting "flighty" here, GonnaFlyNow. (pun)
I believe that is you go back and copiously read the thread from top to bottom, (open mind) that you will find that Padthai made NO such comment about the 1 mil d/b... Pad only commented on the 1 mil prem... Others interjected the discussion of the d/b.
You seem to question what no one has given you a straight answer as if it is a conspiracy... In fact Franz did provide you and answer above, the only problem is that you didn't understand the answer. Your self admission of not understanding life ins (and estate issues) was right on. These concepts are not easily explained in a one or two sentence answer... plus...
The problem with providing you the answer is this..
* There is not enough truly known about the motivation and problems that exist with the subject. The only one here that knows that is maybe Padthai, and Pad hasn't chimed in with the background of the estate values, other problems, etc. There could be a myriad of complex matters that the ins is designed to address, but w/o a clue one is only to attempt to guess the one of 8 or 10 scenarios that the targeted issue for solution.
The most logical of reasons for the SPWL ins is an attempt to move funds from the (taxable) estate, into a transfer of tax favored assets that bypass probate. The chances are that the 1 mil of SPWL for an 80 yr old F will purchase an immed d/b of 1.3 mil or greater, depending upon her current health and potential rating for health issues. This amount, if properly set up using a Life Ins Trust as the owner of the policy, could be removed from the decedents taxable estate, when paid as a d/b.
So again, only left to make an assumption here without benefit of all the facts... assuming the subjects current value of her estate is in excess of several mils of dollars, then currently at death the estate taxation on the 1 mil could be half or more... by depositing into a SPWL policy owned by a properly executed trust, the estate taxes can be completely avoided.
As you can see with every explanation takes several assumptions, which undoubtedly will NOT be correct. These scenarios also may take further explanation... or in essence a short course on estate planning. So hopefully you get my point here... No attempt to slight your question but it is akin to someone who asks the question of how do you speak French...? Easy question, answered only by a course on the subject.
Now if Pad would be so kind as to fill in some of the missing details, possibly a more meaningful discussion could ensue. OR NOT.
You seem to be getting "flighty" here, GonnaFlyNow. (pun)
I believe that is you go back and copiously read the thread from top to bottom, (open mind) that you will find that Padthai made NO such comment about the 1 mil d/b... Pad only commented on the 1 mil prem... Others interjected the discussion of the d/b.
You seem to question what no one has given you a straight answer as if it is a conspiracy... In fact Franz did provide you and answer above, the only problem is that you didn't understand the answer. Your self admission of not understanding life ins (and estate issues) was right on. These concepts are not easily explained in a one or two sentence answer... plus...
The problem with providing you the answer is this..
* There is not enough truly known about the motivation and problems that exist with the subject. The only one here that knows that is maybe Padthai, and Pad hasn't chimed in with the background of the estate values, other problems, etc. There could be a myriad of complex matters that the ins is designed to address, but w/o a clue one is only to attempt to guess the one of 8 or 10 scenarios that the targeted issue for solution.
The most logical of reasons for the SPWL ins is an attempt to move funds from the (taxable) estate, into a transfer of tax favored assets that bypass probate. The chances are that the 1 mil of SPWL for an 80 yr old F will purchase an immed d/b of 1.3 mil or greater, depending upon her current health and potential rating for health issues. This amount, if properly set up using a Life Ins Trust as the owner of the policy, could be removed from the decedents taxable estate, when paid as a d/b.
So again, only left to make an assumption here without benefit of all the facts... assuming the subjects current value of her estate is in excess of several mils of dollars, then currently at death the estate taxation on the 1 mil could be half or more... by depositing into a SPWL policy owned by a properly executed trust, the estate taxes can be completely avoided.
As you can see with every explanation takes several assumptions, which undoubtedly will NOT be correct. These scenarios also may take further explanation... or in essence a short course on estate planning. So hopefully you get my point here... No attempt to slight your question but it is akin to someone who asks the question of how do you speak French...? Easy question, answered only by a course on the subject.
Now if Pad would be so kind as to fill in some of the missing details, possibly a more meaningful discussion could ensue. OR NOT.
The most logical of reasons for the SPWL ins is an attempt to move funds from the (taxable) estate, into a transfer of tax favored assets that bypass probate. The chances are that the 1 mil of SPWL for an 80 yr old F will purchase an immed d/b of 1.3 mil or greater, depending upon her current health and potential rating for health issues. This amount, if properly set up using a Life Ins Trust as the owner of the policy, could be removed from the decedents taxable estate, when paid as a d/b.
So again, only left to make an assumption here without benefit of all the facts... assuming the subjects current value of her estate is in excess of several mils of dollars, then currently at death the estate taxation on the 1 mil could be half or more... by depositing into a SPWL policy owned by a properly executed trust, the estate taxes can be completely avoided.
I hope that padthai will shed some lite on it bcuz ur example was not much help. the example you gave here is wrong.
Typical F*ing situation of why I would have been better off to stick to the initial curt response... I now have some wize-acre who admittedly knows nothing on the subject, telling me that he got no benefit from the explanation and that I am wrong...
This after the 20 mins that I spent trying to break it down to the elementary explanation for him too... No appreciation or justice, I'll tell you.
Allright Fly-acre, tell me where I am wrong... As Mills Bee Lane III would say, "let's get it on".
Typical F*ing situation of why I would have been better off to stick to the initial curt response... I now have some wize-acre who admittedly knows nothing on the subject, telling me that he got no benefit from the explanation and that I am wrong...
This after the 20 mins that I spent trying to break it down to the elementary explanation for him too... No appreciation or justice, I'll tell you.
Allright Fly-acre, tell me where I am wrong... As Mills Bee Lane III would say, "let's get it on".
That's "she" not "he", thank you.
Youre wrong because you said that putting a million in premium into a trust owned life ins pol would reduce the estate tax by a half million or so. that's not true. the million dollar gift would also reduce the estate tax exclusion by a million dollars, so there's no net savings in estate tax.
The only estate tax savings would be on the difference between the premium and the death benefit so in ur example the best case would be 150k in estate tax savings. but she could save more in estate tax just by gifting to kids and grandkids than by putting the 1m in a spwl
Can someone plz explain why padthais idea makes sense
Lol. Thanks for the initial explanation Nut. Oh, the hilarity that ensues in these threads.
Now, ymmv, but $1M will buy $1.7M of SPUL to age 120 for this woman. In this case target premium is over $100k.
Personally, I think the extra $700k alone is a worthwhile reason to buy the policy.
Sports Nut is correct, the policy will be held in a trust.
However in this case, the family is concerned about limiting the estate's exposure to long-term care costs. Chances are good that mom will live into her nineties.
The children are willing to cover potential care expenses in the first 60 months, knowing they will be reimbursed on the back-end.
It's "light," not lite. If you continue to use "bcuz," "ur," and other moronics, I will ignore future requests.
Originally Posted by GonnaFlyNow
i hope that padthai will shed some lite on it bcuz ur example was not much help. the example you gave here is wrong.
Padthai plz shed some lite here.
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Ok. let;s assume an estate large enough to owe taxes. If the policy is owned by the mom, the estate will then owe taxes on the proceeds, as they are added to the value of the estate.
If the policy is owned by a trust, the estate owes no taxes on the death benefit.
Originally Posted by GonnaFlyNow
that's "she" not "he", thank you.
Youre wrong because you said that putting a million in premium into a trust owned life ins pol would reduce the estate tax by a half million or so. that's not true. the million dollar gift would also reduce the estate tax exclusion by a million dollars, so there's no net savings in estate tax.
The only estate tax savings would be on the difference between the premium and the death benefit so in ur example the best case would be 150k in estate tax savings. but she could save more in estate tax just by gifting to kids and grandkids than by putting the 1m in a spwl
Can someone plz explain why padthais idea makes sense
Last edited by padthaiforlunch : 05-27-2009 at 12:12 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
$1,000,000 SPWL for 80 Y.o. Female
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