1990 Pages Hits the Floor of the House

CHUMPS FROM OXFORD · 10-30-2009, 07:42 PM

We don't need an "exchange." I wonder what the chances are of getting rid of that concept.

We can do guarantee issue without an exchange.

TXINSURANCE · 10-30-2009, 08:45 PM

Chumps an exhange could amount to not much more than another e health. The issue is the requirement to buy specifically from such exchange.

CHUMPS FROM OXFORD · 10-30-2009, 08:51 PM

"The issue is the requirement to buy specifically from such exchange."

That would be fantastic if you don't have to buy from the exchange. What are the chances of that happening?

Winter · 10-31-2009, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by CHUMPS FROM OXFORD

"
That would be fantastic if you don't have to buy from the exchange. What are the chances of that happening?

Probably fairly good in the long run. The requirement will end out being that all the creditable plans that are approved for government credits, subsididy, kickback whatever must be on the exchange but you can get them elsewhere too. That would be my guess. The government wants to provide one place you can go for one stop shopping and be sure that you are getting a "good" plan. If you want that high-deuctible plan you wont see it on the exchange and you wont want it in the end anyway because it wont qualify for credits and with with credits you could have gotten a more comprehensive plan.

Also by setting the requirements for being on the exchange the government controls the structures of plans all while giving the illusion of not having taken over the industry. This is what socialists do.

Of course, the public option and its accoutrements were flat on their backs a couple weeks ago. Now they are up in the saddle again this week so everyone is trying to figure out what life in Cuba is going to look like. However, the reform bills are about to get blown out of the saddle or take enemy fire bigtime so dont worry just yet about what the commission is and is not going to be on the Cuban Premier Plan.

In the end a major bill will fall apart and they will regroup and start passing things piecemeal that they can get passed. Or else the major bill will just be a bunch of fluff, goals, and benchmarks, and Congress will be left to implement whatever they can get through enabling legislation on . In other words, the Obama Intergalactic Comprehensive Health Reform Bill gets approved except Congress still needs to settle the issues of public option, funding, abortion, illegals, state opt out, etc. Comes out the same. What a mess.

HealthGuy · 10-31-2009, 12:09 PM

This entire health bill process reminds me of making sausage: Throw all the s**t scrap parts into the grinder and see what fatty, grisle filled link comes out the other end.

al3 · 10-31-2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Winter

What a mess.

When has the legislative process ever NOT been a mess in your lifetime? You are probably not old enough to remember the passage of Medicare, or the various Civil Rights acts in the early 60s (I was in high school.) You don't think Strom Thurmond in the Senate, Wright Patman in the house, and Gov. Wallace in Alabama (the heroes of most conservatives that I know) didn't do all they could do to stop what they saw as a "socialist takeover" just as the Republicans are doing now?

And explain to me just how smoothly the Bush initiatives of No Child Left and Part-D went in Congress? I know you must remember those knock-down-drag-outs.

Historically, the only time I can point to (via reading history) of breeze-thru legislation is FDRs "100 days" where there was an overwhelming mandate to do something... anything... to save the banks, create jobs, and legislate a safety net under people.

What I don't understand is why neo-cons don't want to repeal the Civil Rights legislation, Medicare, and Social Security. Let's face facts, conservatives are not keen on anyone telling them that they have to share a plane or a restaurant with a minority, and the are surely not happy with paying Medicare/SS FICA taxes to fund what they call a "socialist agenda."

No, the entire agenda of the conservatives is not about health care reform. They could care less. This is all about a black guy being elected to the highest office in the land. When I see the Republican minority (or the arch-cons in the Senate or media) start calling for the dismantling of Social Security and the civil rights laws THEN I will know all of this noise about health care financing is real. Until then, the Reps simply don't want to give a black guy the chance to claim political credit for a major victory.

The Republicans and arch-cons here don't care about average working people. It's all about race... which ironically is the "white" elephant in the room.

If the arch-con Reps. really DID care, they would have tons and tons of competing bills on the table or tons and tons of competing plans being discussed on the talk shows and the news programs.

But all I see is "no, no, no, no, no" from the conservatives... because they don't really care about health... it's mostly about race with them. No one wants to talk about it, but that's the only way I can explain it. The arch-cons want to do all they can to obstruct.

Maybe if the Reps are successful in obstruction and nothing is passed (as Winter hypothesizes) the Reps see a better chance in 2010 of running on a platform of "We saved you from a health care catastrophe." But I think the Dems will have a strong argument running on "The (racist?) Reps only care about their true constituents... the AMA, big pharma, and the insurance industry... not you Ms waitress or you Mr. welder."

Yes, if this were not about race, we'd see the neo/arch-cons here as well as their "pets" in the House and Senate talking about dismantling SS and Medicare and Civil Rights. I mean... they are all talking about "socialism" (as you all are here) and what is MORE socialistic then invasive legislation making you share a lunch counter with a black guy or sitting next to a Hispanic woman on a plane, or having to pay taxes used to help old people instead of building bigger army bases.

In the Congress, this is not about health reform, this is about the Reps simply not going to allow the first minority president to pass the one program that he got elected on. This is race... and race is always "politics."

In this group of arch-cons and neo-cons I don't think it is so much about race as it is the greed and avarice of agents to hang on to their 6-figure commissions selling policies that represent a system that THEY believe in, but which has lost the support of the population as a whole (if you believe the polls about people's attitudes about the health insurance industry.)

When I read the posts of the arch-con agents in this board... and all the gas-bag Libertarians who rant and rave about "socialism, socialism, socialism" I smile because I know (and I think most people are beginning to realize now that all they hear from the Reps is "no, no, no" without an alternative,) that this is just about greed. I have no doubt... not one doubt at all... that if the Congress came up with a bill that paid you health agents 25% FYC with a 12% renewal for 5 years, that you would be jumping up and down cheering, yelling, and screaming your approval.

Socialism?

My ass!

Al3
InsuranceSolutions123 Agency

Full Throttle · 10-31-2009, 12:38 PM

I have no doubt... not one doubt at all... that if the Congress came up with a bill that paid you health agents 25% FYC with a 12% renewal for 5 years, that you would be jumping up and down cheering, yelling, and screaming your approval.

Adding another massive government entitlement when the government can't pay for what it already promised is simply horrible financial managment. Being paid 25% commission versus 5% in a hyper inflation environment doesn't make much of a difference to the agent. This is bigger than commissions, it is the path leading to the end of our country's prosperity as we go further down the socialism road.

djs · 10-31-2009, 02:27 PM

When I read the posts of the arch-con agents in this board... and all the gas-bag Libertarians who rant and rave about "socialism, socialism, socialism" I smile because I know (and I think most people are beginning to realize now that all they hear from the Reps is "no, no, no" without an alternative,) that this is just about greed. I have no doubt... not one doubt at all... that if the Congress came up with a bill that paid you health agents 25% FYC with a 12% renewal for 5 years, that you would be jumping up and down cheering, yelling, and screaming your approval.

I doubt it.... what happens in year 6? We want the details and the facts.

Dan

CHUMPS FROM OXFORD · 10-31-2009, 04:24 PM

Al...it is not about race.

al3 · 10-31-2009, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by CHUMPS FROM OXFORD

Al...it is not about race.

If you say so. From your mouth... to god's ear!!

If the Reps don't want the kind of health reform that has come out of the Congress, they should have been "at the table" and have proposed a "health reform contract for America" (similar to 1994) and tried to get some traction with that.

But they didn't. Why is that? My answer is race. It is just as good as any answer you will have. No one wants to admit it, but that's how I see it.

I'm talking about Congress. I don't think it is about race in this venue. I think it is about greed.

Al

djs · 10-31-2009, 06:37 PM

Greed is good. It makes the world go around, and heck, at least you know where a person is coming from... unless it's political greed, which is what most of the health reform bill is about. That type of greed is pretty useless.

Dan

Peelerinsurance.com · 10-31-2009, 07:50 PM

I'll fire off a statement that has somewhat been my position all along..... and if someone blast me.. whoopie dodo.... and at least half of you people agree with me... deep down inside.

I am, and always be a conservetive, however first and formost I am a capitilist, I work hard for the good of my clients and I do that for one reason... for me to make money. We all have massive duties to our families to provide food and other goodies that fit into our lifestyle. Now, do I chase the highest commission, NOPE, but I feel I am in an industry that pays well for all I do. I am just a profesional business man and if I was not an insurance broker I would do something else I suppose... but I spent almost 17 years building this damn thing so I get a little touchy when some one trys and steal it from me.

I write the best product I can find for every prospect and that will never change, however I have a policy in my office that I will not write the Texas risk pool on anyone that does not have a healthy person going on a traditional indy policy. I just wont do it for $50 bucks. I flat turn them away and say not worth the time and legal liability.

Now, why do I say all this.... The political side of me feels a govt plan is a stelth takeover of health care to the degree of a single payer system... NO GOODIE... but the capitilist in me and I use that term on the basis of me being sucessfull... I could care less if a public option govt controled system is in place, as long as I am feeding my family....

Until such point as I know the door is closed on the commission side of things for me to remain in the financial position I am at present I will take a wait and see prespective.

Now, from the political/reality side of things I have been in the political arena long enough to know this could get ugly for us very quickly.

Simple point, If I can make money and be profitiable and the govt option is what Im selling... I could care less

healthagent · 10-31-2009, 08:27 PM

I love making a lot of money. I'm not sure how I'd help others if I didn't. You can't help someone out of a hole by jumping in with him.

Winter · 10-31-2009, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by healthagent

I love making a lot of money. I'm not sure how I'd help others if I didn't. You can't help someone out of a hole by jumping in with him.

President Redistribution is about to make his fourth visit to N.J to help democrat Corzine win. So far, Corzine has spent 24 million of his own money to win. Corzine got that money by raping and pillaging while head of Goldman Sachs and by owning government regulators.

Nice to know the administration is out there looking out for the little guy and putting an end to the evils of capitalism.

Also, heard today that the White House visitation log shows that George Soros has been at the White House four times in the last six months.

agentinsure · 11-07-2009, 02:37 PM

I have many issues with this "reform" which may summed up in these 3 points;

1) no legislation before has ever required 2000 pages to write,

2) a $250,000 fine and 5 years in prison for non-compliance, and

3) congress members are exempt

somarco · 11-07-2009, 04:44 PM

Congress is always exempt from legislation. They don't have to fund anything, including their pensions. They lose money yet vote themselves a pay raise. They spend our money in ways not defined by the Constitution.

They are above the law.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Oh yeah.

And they vote to approve tax cheaters to hold positions in the Cabinet.

ctdavid2 · 11-12-2009, 07:28 PM

Can I switch gears gentlemen? My ADD prohibits me from reading this drivel especially until the final draft has hit BA's desk...my question, in case somebody knows the answer, is how does the mandate aspect of being "forced" to obtain health insurance, much in the same way Massachusetts residents are being forced, affect the 1099 or commission only employee? I am not sure how it works for them in Massachusetts, and didn't really care, but if this actually does become law are insurance and/or real estate agents, et al., going to get income taxes dinged for not carrying health insurance? That would be criminal if so.