2009 MAPD - PDP Commissions

insurance0707 · 10-01-2008, 08:59 AM

Wow, it's October 1st and I still don't know what the commissions are for 2009. I did receive an email letting me know I could enroll online for 2009 the automotive workers as of October 1st. It looks like they do get to enroll early.

Any word from other carriers??? It must be pretty bad

Winter · 10-01-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retread

=Those carriers that start sharing lead sources from their massive direct marketing will attract independents like a magnet, increasing the plans' market share. It's already happening. If FMO's don't meet the challenge by offering free (legitimate) leads, they will become dinosaurs.
YMMV

Carriers such as UHC already are "attracting independents like a magnet" with the promise of free leads or have in the past. How it plays out in the real world is another question.

Everything in the MA business is year to year as both the carriers and the agents try to bob and weave with the changes. FMO's and carriers have no choice but to convince agents now that they can be a source for leads because with the commissions going south how else can they recruit. And if it doesnt work out and the leads arent there, then, what the hey, the carrier or FMO is not worrying about you and you just add that experience to the other twenty times you have been burned. They will say and do what they need to in order to get you signed up for enrollment season and then at the end of the season both you and they figure out what you are going to do different next year.

If the carriers have to generate more leads then they may do that. They will recoup as much of their costs as possible by continuing to move toward a model where everything is done through either a telesales or captive sales force environment (I mean true captive not some independent captive whatever status). You might do well at certain times and in certain areas by getting some leads which they cant handle but that will only tell them that they have the leads to put a captive person there next year.

Continue to expect the carriers and FMO's to promise leads. It is the only tool they have in their toolbox now so what else can they do? Why would you go with them if they didnt. Probably they have a crappy plan and we know that the commission is the same as the other carriers, sort of.

If Obama is elected you can kiss it all goodbye. A democratic president and a democratic senate and congress will not support MA's, or rather they will just cut the subsidy and let the carriers do what they can with the exact same amount as original medicare would kick in. If you are doing enough MA business to justify all of the analysis and uncertainly that you will need to wade through then I suppose it makes sense. If not, it doesnt anymore. It is already at the point where you need to consult a lawyer to know if you can contact a prospect.

We have been spinning our wheels for a long time but we are getting there. The election is coming, and the CMS rules are coming and those will be new developments to digest. If McCain is elected, MA's will survive but the subsidies will still be cut. The upcoming season will be one of just hobbling through to see what the next phase looks like after a couple more shoes drop.

Winter

MedSuppPro · 10-01-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter

They will say and do what they need to in order to get you signed up for enrollment season and then at the end of the season both you and they figure out what you are going to do different next year.Winter

I agree with you, except, they could care less about what you are going to do different next year. They never ask. A huge disconnect.

And the melt down you speak of for next year -- I'm seeing pocket of this year. So, even with the "$15 billion subsidies", that Obama wants to cut, carriers are struggling to make these plans profitable. So my client's out-of-pocket costs drastically go up and my commissions go down.

I'm going for market share, and this will position me for the eventual MedSupp GI season.

al3 · 10-01-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter

Carriers such as UHC already are "attracting independents like a magnet" with the promise of free leads or have in the past.

If Obama is elected you can kiss it all goodbye. A democratic president and a democratic senate and congress will not support MA's, or rather they will just cut the subsidy
Winter

Jeez, Louise Winter... when you settle down and write in your element you do a damn good job. Excellent analysis... very worthy of publication. You should send it to the magazine editor on this list... I forgot her name... assuming she ever gave it.

I disagree with you that MA will be abolished or cut. I don't believe the AARP is going to let that happen and most often what the AARP wants... it gets... for better or worse.

However, you are 'right on' ('spot on' if you are British) about leads. Last year UHC lured me into the MA market with the promise of free leads in return for being captive. I never got one lead... nor did the other guys I know who signed up the same time I did. UHC had a great road show and terrific training and even half-way good technology (using the Oracle system as I remember... but it needed three different passwords I believe!) The entire UHC "marketing plan" was all smoke and mirrors and a lot of blue sky.

Most of us simply broke the contract (I'm sure they are still looking for us to sue us) and wrote the Blue Cross (now Anthem) Freedom One plan where we got paid about the same and where the infrastructure was there.

If there is a more disorganized company than UHC, I don't know what it is. Their products are fine... but they are a PITA to work with in my limited experience. They have a hundred levels of management when all they need is one!

Anyway, good job, Winter. You are a whole lot smarter than I thought you were.

Al

*midwestbroker* · 10-01-2008, 11:42 AM

If you want to know what is happening with MA's, watch AARP.

They are the loudest voice for seniors out there...rather largest voice for themselves.

AARP has already been behind MA plans, as long as they are funded at 100% of Medicare costs, not 110% or more.

IMHO, rural areas will go back to supp only markets, and in the metro areas, most carriers will focus more on the HMO market (already happening in KC).

patch36 · 10-01-2008, 12:04 PM

I was with UHC last year. In my market their products sucked and their network was virtually non-existent. The ONLY thing they had going for them was the AARP endorsement. The few plans they did sign up will move to another carrier this year, if the salesmen figure out a way to contact them without breaking the rules.

The compensation this year for all new MA plans will set a benchmark for that client. The salesman that moves them to a new company during the next 5 years will only get the renewal commission, not a full commission. How CMS and the companies track that will be interesting...

All I have been told, yesterday, was that I would like the commission schedule, but it was not ready for release. As if I have a choice?

Frank Stastny · 10-01-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter

Carriers such as UHC already are "attracting independents like a magnet" with the promise of free leads or have in the past. How it plays out in the real world is another question.

Everything in the MA business is year to year as both the carriers and the agents try to bob and weave with the changes. FMO's and carriers have no choice but to convince agents now that they can be a source for leads because with the commissions going south how else can they recruit. And if it doesnt work out and the leads arent there, then, what the hey, the carrier or FMO is not worrying about you and you just add that experience to the other twenty times you have been burned. They will say and do what they need to in order to get you signed up for enrollment season and then at the end of the season both you and they figure out what you are going to do different next year.

If the carriers have to generate more leads then they may do that. They will recoup as much of their costs as possible by continuing to move toward a model where everything is done through either a telesales or captive sales force environment (I mean true captive not some independent captive whatever status). You might do well at certain times and in certain areas by getting some leads which they cant handle but that will only tell them that they have the leads to put a captive person there next year.

Continue to expect the carriers and FMO's to promise leads. It is the only tool they have in their toolbox now so what else can they do? Why would you go with them if they didnt. Probably they have a crappy plan and we know that the commission is the same as the other carriers, sort of.

If Obama is elected you can kiss it all goodbye. A democratic president and a democratic senate and congress will not support MA's, or rather they will just cut the subsidy and let the carriers do what they can with the exact same amount as original medicare would kick in. If you are doing enough MA business to justify all of the analysis and uncertainly that you will need to wade through then I suppose it makes sense. If not, it doesnt anymore. It is already at the point where you need to consult a lawyer to know if you can contact a prospect.

We have been spinning our wheels for a long time but we are getting there. The election is coming, and the CMS rules are coming and those will be new developments to digest. If McCain is elected, MA's will survive but the subsidies will still be cut. The upcoming season will be one of just hobbling through to see what the next phase looks like after a couple more shoes drop.

Winter

Those of us who have been in the senior market for more than a couple of months already know that, for the most part, their "leads" are going to be pretty crappy. The majority of their "leads" will be sent to every agent they have contracts with in a given area.

As you pointed out, subsidies are going to be cut regardless of what happens politically. We will see the benefits go down and the price go up on MA plans, especially PFFS plans.

The commissions are already being cut and I do not see that as a "bad thing".

I don't view any of that as being negative. On the contrary, I think it is pretty exciting. I do not have the option of selling HMO's or PPO's in rural Missouri. I will not sell PFFS plans. I do not market to people on Medicaid.

PFFS plans are not a good choice for rural Missourians who want the easy availability of quality health care and who want to be in control of their health care.

The agents who sell Medicare Supplements who I know have the most success when working outside of large metro areas. (Me included.) Areas that are beyond the reach of HMO's.

I believe PFFS plans were introduced to be sold to seniors who do not have the option of either HMO's or PPO's. When the benefits of their PFFS plan go south and the premiums go north what do you all think they are going to do after they realize the huge mistake they made?

Do any of you think these people are going to be great prospects? What options are they going to have? What kind of agents are they going to need to help them?

CMS and the canidates are working very hard to enabled me to dramatically increase my production and I really appreciate it. And guess what? I can call these new prospects or knock on their door 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

I love the senior market!

MedSuppPro · 10-01-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Stastny

CMS and the canidates are working very hard to enabled me to dramatically increase my production and I really appreciate it.

Just found out that several MA carriers are holding their MA and PDP supplies till the end of October. That way America will have less angry

seniors around election time. Start bailing...

patch36 · 10-01-2008, 01:09 PM

I can pick up stuff from Humana today. Don't know what I am being paid and not sure I really care.

It will be what it will be. Sorta like the old Wayne Newton song.

insurance0707 · 10-01-2008, 01:54 PM

I called Humana this morning...they can't tell me commissions. You can go online and look at the 2009 plans though. The rates went up. I have a lot of clients that took out the humana enhance prescription drug plan. It went from $25.70 a month to $38 something a month. Also the tier 2 drugs went from $25 for a 30 day supply to $ 40 for a 30 day supply. I don't understand that one. I didn't think the PDP plans were effected. You can also see the premiums for their PFFS and PPO and HMO for2009

patch36 · 10-01-2008, 02:28 PM

Yeah, we got all that last week here in meetings.

Standalone PDP's went up to $38 from $20.70, here. It does vary by state. MAPD PPO went up from $40 to $58 and the HMO dropped from $16 to $15.

Just got an email from Coventry that they are deferring the announcement of 2009 commissions for a week. Still no official word from Humana.

Winter · 10-01-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Stastny

Those of us who have been in the senior market for more than a couple of months already know that, for the most part, their "leads" are going to be pretty crappy. The majority of their "leads" will be sent to every agent they have contracts with in a given area.

As you pointed out, subsidies are going to be cut regardless of what happens politically. We will see the benefits go down and the price go up on MA plans, especially PFFS plans.

The commissions are already being cut and I do not see that as a "bad thing".

I don't view any of that as being negative. On the contrary, I think it is pretty exciting. I do not have the option of selling HMO's or PPO's in rural Missouri. I will not sell PFFS plans. I do not market to people on Medicaid.

PFFS plans are not a good choice for rural Missourians who want the easy availability of quality health care and who want to be in control of their health care.

The agents who sell Medicare Supplements who I know have the most success when working outside of large metro areas. (Me included.) Areas that are beyond the reach of HMO's.

I believe PFFS plans were introduced to be sold to seniors who do not have the option of either HMO's or PPO's. When the benefits of their PFFS plan go south and the premiums go north what do you all think they are going to do after they realize the huge mistake they made?

Do any of you think these people are going to be great prospects? What options are they going to have? What kind of agents are they going to need to help them?

CMS and the canidates are working very hard to enabled me to dramatically increase my production and I really appreciate it. And guess what? I can call these new prospects or knock on their door 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

I love the senior market!

Frank, are you totally MA-free in your business practice. You are just offering supps?

Winter

Frank Stastny · 10-01-2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter

Frank, are you totally MA-free in your business practice. You are just offering supps?

Winter

That is correct. Last year I sold two PFFS plans to a couple who got screwed out of their Med Supp by a United World agent. Long story but I will share it with you if you would like.

After a couple of months I was able to put them back into a Med Supp. It was kind of a hassle but in the end it worked out okay.

Those are the only two "MA" plans I have sold.

I just don't believe that they are good for rural Missourians. I have had a few who say that is all they want, PFFS, and I suggest that they contact another agent to purchase it from.

GreenSky · 10-01-2008, 08:16 PM

I have heard a rumor from a good source that Secure Horizons commissions will not be too much different than they are currently. The only real change will be renewals will obviously be much higher than current.

Second, the insurance carriers are "pushing back" at CMS about the inability to contact seniors. Don't know what will come of it since Congress passes a law, but we shall see.

Rick