Insurance Agent Forum

[insurance0707]

Has anyone heard yet what the actual commissions will be for 2009 on the MAPD or PDP plans?

[patch36]

Not out yet for Humana, and haven't gotten anything via email from any of the other companies or marketing groups I associate with.

I think they are trying to figure out a formula that is in compliance and will not cause all of the agents to revolt.

[scottfree]

I've heard no one wants to be first. Whoever is first will have smallest commissions so everyone will probably release commissions on October 1st which is when CMS set deadline.

[insurance0707]

It's probably not going to be good. It seems like this time last year I was getting all kinds of emails wanting me to write for such and such company and they were heavily promoting the commissions on the plans

[policy doctor]

I was thinking the same thing. I've had a few new solicitations for Cigna, and a couple calls to renew certification for the 2009, but nothing else. Health markets is exiting the field, right?

After listening in to Today's Options conference call this week, someone asked them to help agents with advertising/mailer costs to generate new leads. Obviously marketing costs will soar for agents doing mailers. Well their response was they would look into it. (lol)

I think that if the M A co's are getting the same reimbusement as they have in the past, then they need to offset any cut in commissions by subsidizing lead generation, don't you think? After all, don't they retain the money CMS gives them? I would think FMO commissions will also be affected.

[MedSuppPro]

Originally Posted by policy doctor

I think that if the M A co's are getting the same reimbusement as they have in the past, then they need to offset any cut in commissions by subsidizing lead generation, don't you think?

I like this idea. In fact, I would consider a quasi-captive arrangement. Carrier's could put this together without FMO's. FMO's are worthless.

CMS has given carriers and agents less then 15 days notice. One of the top five carriers told me last week that they didn't know how their massive computer would administer the new Rent-A-Agent payments.

CMS should agree with Senator McCain and put their new Rent-A-Agent payment rules on hold till after the bailout.

[scottfree]

Originally Posted by MedSuppPro

I like this idea. In fact, I would consider a quasi-captive arrangement. Carrier's could put this together without FMO's. FMO's are worthless.

FMO's are worthless when it comes to MA sales. Cut them out and pay the agents enough so we will be able to make enough to cover their own mailings. Just supply us with CMS approved templates so we can do them ourselves.

Just my 2 cents.

[patch36]

I do my own mailings anyway. I never assumed the FMO would do it for me for free or provide leads for free. There is no such thing. I do it out of the commissions I am paid and I will continue to do so regardless of how the commissions are paid. Yeah, FMO's are worthless, but do you really think the insurance company will pay you more if they eliminate them? That is not the nature of the beast.

I spend many thousands of dollars a year for mailings and leads. The alternative is to sit and dial all day long or pay someone to do it for you. I don't do that, and now CMS made it against the rules.

I have a Bulk Mail permit, Business Reply Mail permit and I purchase updated lists based on the demographics I am trying to reach out to. I create my own leads. It is a business expense, or as some of you will point out, marketing is not an expense, it is an investment

[Frank Stastny]

Originally Posted by patch36

I do my own mailings anyway. I never assumed the FMO would do it for me for free or provide leads for free. There is no such thing. I do it out of the commissions I am paid and I will continue to do so regardless of how the commissions are paid. Yeah, FMO's are worthless, but do you really think the insurance company will pay you more if they eliminate them? That is not the nature of the beast.

I spend many thousands of dollars a year for mailings and leads. The alternative is to sit and dial all day long or pay someone to do it for you. I don't do that, and now CMS made it against the rules.

I have a Bulk Mail permit, Business Reply Mail permit and I purchase updated lists based on the demographics I am trying to reach out to. I create my own leads. It is a business expense, or as some of you will point out, marketing is not an expense, it is an investment

It's nice to hear an agent acknowledge that selling insurance is a business. For any business to be successful, selling insurance included, one needs to constantly be investing in their business if they want their business to be successful.

Probably the thing that gripes me the most is to see/hear agents who think that everything should be "free" and having to spend a couple of bucks is totally out of the question. This industry appears to be full of them. Not necessarily the members of this board but so many agents I have worked with and trained.

Those agents who view this as a business as opposed to a "quick way to make a buck" sitting in front of a computer screen in their underwear are the ones who will enjoy the fruits of their labor for years to come.

Most things are worth exactly what one pays for them.

[midwestbroker]

I do not know if FMO's are worthless. To a newer agent, they can be the stepping stone they need to go full independent.

[patch36]

I have some great FMO's, but the FMO's for my MA's offer nothing of value to me, and I can see little they offer to the rookie agents. The insurance companies provide all the certification and training. My Annuity FMO is great and the commission structures are pretty much the same with all the major FMO"S when it comes to annuities. I see some difference with individual health and life, but those are not my primary products.

So, are FMO's worthless? It depends on the FMO and the insurance line.

[allhealthandlife]

Originally Posted by insurance0707

Has anyone heard yet what the actual commissions will be for 2009 on the MAPD or PDP plans?

I have heard rumours that Wellcare in Florida will be paying 300 first year then 150 for years 2 - 6 so we can assume that other carriers will follow suit and pay at least the same.

I think they know that this is the minimum hazard pay that agents are willing to accept to wade into this MA minefield.

[retread]

Originally Posted by Frank Stastny

It's nice to hear an agent acknowledge that selling insurance is a business. For any business to be successful, selling insurance included, one needs to constantly be investing in their business if they want their business to be successful.

Probably the thing that gripes me the most is to see/hear agents who think that everything should be "free" and having to spend a couple of bucks is totally out of the question. This industry appears to be full of them. Not necessarily the members of this board but so many agents I have worked with and trained.

Those agents who view this as a business as opposed to a "quick way to make a buck" sitting in front of a computer screen in their underwear are the ones who will enjoy the fruits of their labor for years to come.

Most things are worth exactly what one pays for them.

I don't completely agree with you here, Frank.

First of all, the carriers are making a very large profit on the clients I sell, and can afford to raise the commission level. I think they will pay higher commissions if agents become scarce if these new rules actually purge the non-compliants. (Personally, I think they will just find a rock to hide under)

Secondly, FMO's have been getting a free ride on my services... they do absolutely nothing to earn an override. I am certain that carriers will not consider eliminating the FMO distribution channel. Too bad... this is a waste of money (IMHO).

Thirdly, carriers have been getting a free ride on the backs of independent agents who have been shouldering much of the costs of marketing their plans for them in the past. Those carriers that start sharing lead sources from their massive direct marketing will attract independents like a magnet, increasing the plans' market share. It's already happening. If FMO's don't meet the challenge by offering free (legitimate) leads, they will become dinosaurs. So far, the "free" leads I have obtained from one of my FMO's have been worse than what I get from a cheap mailing list... 99% JUNK!

Now these leads don't necessarily need to be provided "free". A carrier can establish a reasonable cost per lead if they want. What they have been doing in the past is only giving them to their in-house captives with consequent reduced commission. If they provided these in-house leads at a reasonable cost to independents (and implement tracking to eliminate the leads going to competeing plans) I, for one, would buy all I could handle.

Personally, I am tired of shelling out money for worthless leads. The only kind of leads that are worthwhile are in-house (the ones carriers harvest from their direct mail campaigns...) the rest that are sold by so-called "professional lead companies" are not worth the powder to blow them away. Anyway, with the new rules implemented by CMS, there is a good chance they will be legislated out of existence, since very few (if any) of them are legitimate requests for info to begin with.

YMMV

[Paradigm]

Originally Posted by retread

I don't completely agree with you here, Frank.

First of all, the carriers are making a very large profit on the clients I sell, and can afford to raise the commission level. I think they will pay higher commissions if agents become scarce if these new rules actually purge the non-compliants. (Personally, I think they will just find a rock to hide under)

Secondly, FMO's have been getting a free ride on my services... they do absolutely nothing to earn an override. I am certain that carriers will not consider eliminating the FMO distribution channel. Too bad... this is a waste of money (IMHO).

Thirdly, carriers have been getting a free ride on the backs of independent agents who have been shouldering much of the costs of marketing their plans for them in the past. Those carriers that start sharing lead sources from their massive direct marketing will attract independents like a magnet, increasing the plans' market share. It's already happening. If FMO's don't meet the challenge by offering free (legitimate) leads, they will become dinosaurs. So far, the "free" leads I have obtained from one of my FMO's have been worse than what I get from a cheap mailing list... 99% JUNK!

Now these leads don't necessarily need to be provided "free". A carrier can establish a reasonable cost per lead if they want. What they have been doing in the past is only giving them to their in-house captives with consequent reduced commission. If they provided these in-house leads at a reasonable cost to independents (and implement tracking to eliminate the leads going to competeing plans) I, for one, would buy all I could handle.

Personally, I am tired of shelling out money for worthless leads. The only kind of leads that are worthwhile are in-house (the ones carriers harvest from their direct mail campaigns...) the rest that are sold by so-called "professional lead companies" are not worth the powder to blow them away. Anyway, with the new rules implemented by CMS, there is a good chance they will be legislated out of existence, since very few (if any) of them are legitimate requests for info to begin with.

YMMV

The FMO play a role in recruiting agents for the carriers. Agents would find them as easy without the FMO and they would have to advertise for agents themselves

As far as the carriers the only reason they pay us high commissions 20+ on health and 100+ on life is because we do the marketing. The captive model is only like 50-60% of that. I would rather have the extra cash. I get a good bang for the buck typically 500-1000% return on my investment and I buy alot of leads
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Or were u just talking about MA?

[insurance0707]

The carriers can't keep silent much longer....AEP is coming up. Let us know now commissions, benefiit/copays, etc. instead of wasting our time with certification on products we might not even offer for 2009