Just reading this topic should be a "wake-up" call to some of the agents that are doing this.
You need to play by the rules.....plain and simple! Stupid things like signing for a client just makes the real agents look bad in the publics eyes. IMO
Just reading this topic should be a "wake-up" call to some of the agents that are doing this.
You need to play by the rules.....plain and simple! Stupid things like signing for a client just makes the real agents look bad in the publics eyes. IMO
Good thing about NC, it keeps any agents that want to have a future doing business in this State honest.
I think that I'd rather be tortured than to defend myself against something of that nature.
A client the other day asked me to sign something for him, and I told him that I'd mail it with a return envelope, a few days wasn't going to hurt anything, and he complied.
Better to lose a little money than to be stripped of rank and sent into the wilderness.
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Good thing about NC, it keeps any agents that want to have a future doing business in this State honest.
I think that I'd rather be tortured than to defend myself against something of that nature.
A client the other day asked me to sign something for him, and I told him that I'd mail it with a return envelope, a few days wasn't going to hurt anything, and he complied.
Better to lose a little money than to be stripped of rank and sent into the wilderness.
So very right normal snail mail or fax machines are great...I'm also finding more clients with scanners willing to scan (short documents) and email them back to me...Just make sure the company does not require original signatures.
not a trick question at all. I just bought a house and my lawyer had power of attorney and signed documents for me.
However, I recently read an article of an agent admitting to signing for an applicant and as a result lost his/her E&O ins. From what I understood, the applicant wasn't aware, but did want the product bound.
I'm assuming it went something like this...Agent asked the questions on the app (over the phone), gave a quote based on the responses; applicant said okay, bind and probably never gave it a thought as to signing an app and just went on about his normal business. Agent signed the app for the customer, bound the policy and went on with his week. The app got brought into a claim (I'm guessing) and the customer said that's not my signature...and so on.
I don't think it was a question of fraud so much as the agent just skipping a (very important) step.
Your example of buying a house and your lawyer signing your documents under a POA is like comparing apples and oranges. Your lawyer was acting on your behalf under a power of attorney which made him your agent and his classification became the attorney-in-fact (who does not have to be an attorney-at-law). It just so happens that your attorney-in-fact was also your attorney-at-law. Signing an insurance app is a different animal. No way would I want to be an attorney-in-fact for a prospect to whom I sold any insurance policy and sign the app on his/her behalf..
Your example of buying a house and your lawyer signing your documents under a POA is like comparing apples and oranges. Your lawyer was acting on your behalf under a power of attorney which made him your agent and his classification became the attorney-in-fact (who does not have to be an attorney-at-law). It just so happens that your attorney-in-fact was also your attorney-at-law. Signing an insurance app is a different animal. No way would I want to be an attorney-in-fact for a prospect to whom I sold any insurance policy and sign the app on his/her behalf..
I just read where "Questions" wrote that and was going to respond the exact same way.
Great answer! You took the words right out of my keyboard...........LOL
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I completely understand an insurance agent doesn't have power of attorney. Maybe it was a bad example; however, it does set the tone...I'm sure many consumers wouldn't know any different if an agent never asked for their signature. They'd probably just assume coverage is in place and they're good to go.
So very right normal snail mail or fax machines are great...I'm also finding more clients with scanners willing to scan (short documents) and email them back to me...Just make sure the company does not require original signatures.
This company didn't require original signatures, but he didn't have a scanner or fax, so the old fashion way was it.
It's kind of funny, but original signatures are not the worst thing in the world time wise, just the mailing back and forth.
The killer for me is when they require a f2f meeting with the client. Those are the carriers that I seldom use.
Life Investors made f2f meetings mandatory this year even on the fully underwritten products. I wanted to write one of their apps the other day, but didn't want to drive 80 miles round trip to do it.
This company didn't require original signatures, but he didn't have a scanner or fax, so the old fashion way was it.
It's kind of funny, but original signatures are not the worst thing in the world time wise, just the mailing back and forth.
The killer for me is when they require a f2f meeting with the client. Those are the carriers that I seldom use.
Life Investors made f2f meetings mandatory this year even on the fully underwritten products. I wanted to write one of their apps the other day, but didn't want to drive 80 miles round trip to do it.
I wonder if you did the app over the phone and uploaded it to the paramed so the paramed is getting the client signature while doing the paramed would that constitute f2f?
Seems pretty silly but then again I did a genworth app on a prospect 2 states away asked my normal health questions and based (on what he was telling me he should have been preffered once again on what he was telling me) I looked over the information the paramed took down saw nothing that wasn't disclosed and a couple weeks later the policy was declined boy was I surprised that the paramed didn't notice an amputation of his foot the client didn't disclose his type 2 diabetes that has already lead to amputation...that was one of my last out of state sales of LI....
I wonder if you did the app over the phone and uploaded it to the paramed so the paramed is getting the client signature while doing the paramed would that constitute f2f?
I tried that with one carrier, and they told me to get in the car, drive to the applicant's house and ask all the questions and they would call the client back to verify that I did, and they did.
They weren't fooling around either, I felt like a little kid the way they handled me on this case, but the way they looked at it, they cut me a break.
They could have cancelled the app and told the client that I was an asshole.
Sounds like the UA agents from Springfield, MO. I forgot the guys name who was selling Plan A and tearing off the receipts for Plan F. He got shut down but the whole thing was a mess back then.
Sounds like the UA agents from Springfield, MO. I forgot the guys name who was selling Plan A and tearing off the receipts for Plan F. He got shut down but the whole thing was a mess back then.
Gulliver
You win the prize. Have our paths ever crossed?
I can picture him but I can't remember his name either. There were a couple of guys that were just crooks, no nice way to put it.
Thank God, "time wounds all heels".
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I never met you but I remember your name on the production list. I was only there for a few weeks. I had a P and C background and got convinced to try working with them. (Like everyone else around Springfield) I just happened to be there when that guy was doing the bad stuff; it was around June of 2000.
Paul and Larry were the coordinators then. Jeff was and I believe still is the manager of that group. They are constantly recruiting people. No training or care about the integrity of operations.
I never met you but I remember your name on the production list. I was only there for a few weeks. I had a P and C background and got convinced to try working with them. (Like everyone else around Springfield) I just happened to be there when that guy was doing the bad stuff; it was around June of 2000.
Paul and Larry were the coordinators then. Jeff was and I believe still is the manager of that group. They are constantly recruiting people. No training or care about the integrity of operations.
Gulliver
I know, that makes me very sad. That was about the time I became an independent agent.
Some of the best years I have had selling insurance was when I was with UA. I made a lot of money, ethically, and sold a lot of insurance. UA literally treated me like a king. I traveled all over the world on trips I won. Andy King was president at the time and he became a good friend. When I went on convention Andy would send a limo to the airport to pick me up. Those were good times.
I can picture him but I can't remember his name either. There were a couple of guys that were just crooks, no nice way to put it.
Thank God, "time wounds all heels".
UA's extremely high prices caused some ages to be just plain crooked. Not making excuses for them of course, but a few years ago, I had at least 4 clients who UA agents in Chattanooga TN sold plan A to, and described their coverage as "good as what they had but cheaper price". Then they would emphasize the worthless UA partners program as dental, glasses, and prescription coverage (which was a pile of $hit).
A couple of my clients filed complaints with the DOI and I think action was taken against one agent in particular.
Now their plan A is priced higher than everyone's F so I don't see them anymore
UA's extremely high prices caused some ages to be just plain crooked. Not making excuses for them of course, but a few years ago, I had at least 4 clients who UA agents in Chattanooga TN sold plan A to, and described their coverage as "good as what they had but cheaper price". Then they would emphasize the worthless UA partners program as dental, glasses, and prescription coverage (which was a pile of ).
A couple of my clients filed complaints with the DOI and I think action was taken against one agent in particular.
Now their plan A is priced higher than everyone's F so I don't see them anymore
All of their Med Supp premiums are "way too high". There is a specific reason for that. If you truly want to know why read on.
In the 90's the health questions on the app were extremely easy for anyone to answer. They were insuring a lot of chronically ill people as a result. Why they didn’t see that is anyone's guess. We, the agents, could see that.
In the late 90's they began getting inundated with a huge amount of claims as a result of insuring a tremendous number of chronically ill seniors. (The thing that drives premium increases are claims.)
For those who don't know, an insurance company MUST, by law, pay in claims a minimum of 65% of what they collect in premiums. If the company is paying out less than 65% in claims they MUST, by law, either reduce or refund premiums. If they are paying out substantially more than 65% then the DOI will authorize a premium increase.
Because of the lack of in depth health questions and the tremendous amount of claims, UA went through three consecutive years of 35% premium increases in the late 90's. The healthy people canceled. The “sick” ones were stuck with the policy. This resulted in even less revenue coming in and an even higher percent of money going out to cover claims.
That is why UA is priced so high. There was nothing funny about it. It was very tragic, not only for seniors but for agents as well. A lot of good agents ended up getting out of insurance. So before you start laughing it would serve you well to learn about Medicare and Medicare Supplement insurance.
During that time UA insured a lot of people who would not have been able to take a Med Supp policy with another company. Are those seniors paying for it today? Yes. Is it better than not being able to get a Med Supp policy? Maybe.
I am not defending them, I just feel that it is important for any agent working the senior market to have all of the facts and understand the reasons why things happen. The next time agents bitch because of the underwriting questions on an app, I hope they will reflect back upon this post.
The health questions on the app are the first thing I look at when I license with a new company.
Last edited by Frank Stastny : 08-15-2009 at 04:08 PM.
Re: Agent Signing for an Applicant
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