Agents Making Little to No Money... How / Why?

BrokeLoser · 04-14-2009, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by GetInsurance

You seem to know some serious details about your "friend's" production and workday.

Yeah, guess I do. It's probably pretty stupid of me to be grilling him on every little micro detail when I'm only considering a major career move...huh?

djs · 04-14-2009, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by patch36

Dr., I have this friend who told me it burns when he pee's. Do you have any advice and medicine I can pass on to him?

Don't drink, exercise a lot to dehydrate... and tie it in a knot.

patch36 · 04-14-2009, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by BrokeLoser

Yeah, guess I do. It's probably pretty stupid of me to be grilling him on every little micro detail when I'm only considering a major career move...huh?

Seems you have it all figured out. If you think Farmers is the way to go, according to your 'friends success', then go for it. If you think he or you can sustatin that kind of production level, go for it. At some poiint he will be asked to leave the district office, open his own, and spend a lot more than $450 a month. He will be committed by the new contract to only sell Farmers products, even when they do not offer something the client needs. He will be fronted money monthly to match his production, on a declining scale, until he reaches one year as a career agent, then all of the renewals are suppossed to pay the way. If he does not hit Life, as well as P&C numbers for 5 years he will have to pay it back. If he quits, he will have to pay it back.

Our 'negativity' is really just advice from our experiences. I am relatively successfull by any measure you could apply to almost ALL Farmers agents as far as renewals and income, but I did not do it as a Farmers agent. I saw the possibilities and quit and went independent.

robliano · 04-14-2009, 09:44 AM

Welcome to the forum, you've caught onto the negativity already and are able to spit back sarcasm, impressive. ; )~

It seems hard work is the reason your friend is successful, coincidence? Likely not. So plan and attack.

And even though the debbie downers on this forum don't realize that negativity can cloud the actual advice they try to offer, there is still some wisdom to be found on here.

Do well sir!

Originally Posted by BrokeLoser

Yeah, guess I do. It's probably pretty stupid of me to be grilling him on every little micro detail when I'm only considering a major career move...huh?

BrokeLoser · 04-14-2009, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by patch36

Seems you have it all figured out. If you think Farmers is the way to go, according to your 'friends success', then go for it. If you think he or you can sustatin that kind of production level, go for it. At some poiint he will be asked to leave the district office, open his own, and spend a lot more than $450 a month. He will be committed by the new contract to only sell Farmers products, even when they do not offer something the client needs. He will be fronted money monthly to match his production, on a declining scale, until he reaches one year as a career agent, then all of the renewals are suppossed to pay the way. If he does not hit Life, as well as P&C numbers for 5 years he will have to pay it back. If he quits, he will have to pay it back.

Our 'negativity' is really just advice from our experiences. I am relatively successfull by any measure you could apply to almost ALL Farmers agents as far as renewals and income, but I did not do it as a Farmers agent. I saw the possibilities and quit and went independent.

Chuck, I really appreciate the insight you offer...I do.
This thread sort of got off track; I know that becoming a Farmers agent may not be right for me, it may not be right for my buddy either. I started this thread more to discuss how and why it seems that agents are so unsuccessful especially in the beginning of their careers. I know that given the residuals the biz is suppose to get easier with each passing year...but it doesn't seem like it needs to be such a struggle in the beginning. Basically, I'm not 'big picture' enough to wait for income.... I've been bread to expect immediate gratification as a result of my work. I have a real tuff time staying motivated if it takes to long to reach the light at the end of the tunnel. THERE IS NO WAY I COULD PUT 1 YEAR INTO THIS MAKING NOTHING JUST TO MAKE 50K MY 2ND YEAR!

robliano · 04-14-2009, 10:52 AM

Don't let the seeds of doubt get you.

Buy the Slight Edge by Jeff Olsen, awesome and insightful book.

Originally Posted by BrokeLoser

Chuck, I really appreciate the insight you offer...I do.
This thread sort of got off track; I know that becoming a Farmers agent may not be right for me, it may not be right for my buddy either. I started this thread more to discuss how and why it seems that agents are so unsuccessful especially in the beginning of their careers. I know that given the residuals the biz is suppose to get easier with each passing year...but it doesn't seem like it needs to be such a struggle in the beginning. Basically, I'm not 'big picture' enough to wait for income.... I've been bread to expect immediate gratification as a result of my work. I have a real tuff time staying motivated if it takes to long to reach the light at the end of the tunnel. THERE IS NO WAY I COULD PUT 1 YEAR INTO THIS MAKING NOTHING JUST TO MAKE 50K MY 2ND YEAR!

BrokeLoser · 04-14-2009, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by robliano

Welcome to the forum, you've caught onto the negativity already and are able to spit back sarcasm, impressive. ; )~

It seems hard work is the reason your friend is successful, coincidence? Likely not. So plan and attack.

And even though the debbie downers on this forum don't realize that negativity can cloud the actual advice they try to offer, there is still some wisdom to be found on here.

Do well sir!

Hey Rob!
I've lurked here a while and really enjoy the read of your posts. I've seen where some have taken offense to your positive words and energy...STRANGE... but they say only a negative pessimist is offended by a positive optimist. I'm sure you don't let it deter your attitude. I've found plenty of good quality info here; even the negative stuff is sometimes good...haha... I'll be following you around the board and learning I'm sure. Thanks and take care!
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Originally Posted by robliano

Don't let the seeds of doubt get you.

Buy the Slight Edge by Jeff Olsen, awesome and insightful book.

I'm on it!
Thanks again.

robliano · 04-14-2009, 06:38 PM

Thanks and you're right, it doesn't bother me.

Like Swayze says in Roadhouse (I think) something like this:

He says don't let people get you mad, and gets the reply, what if they say your mom's a whore, he says "is she?"

He who angers you conquers you!

Originally Posted by BrokeLoser

Hey Rob!
I've lurked here a while and really enjoy the read of your posts. I've seen where some have taken offense to your positive words and energy...STRANGE... but they say only a negative pessimist is offended by a positive optimist. I'm sure you don't let it deter your attitude. I've found plenty of good quality info here; even the negative stuff is sometimes good...haha... I'll be following you around the board and learning I'm sure. Thanks and take care!
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I'm on it!
Thanks again.

Paradigm · 04-14-2009, 10:23 PM

On the one hand you could say some are negative on this forum but most are realistic.

The reality is this like it or not 90% of those who attempt insurance sales will fail.

They will fail for a myriad of reason but mostly lack of capital, skills and work ethic are the main culprits.

Sales training is somewhat useful but is an empty calorie in most cases because the student doesn't apply what he learns.

Capital is critical because if you can't market you cannot sell. It does indeed take money to make money and without a well formed marketing scheme clients will not beat a path to your door.

Finally you must work your ass off at least in the beginning. In my opinion P&C is probably the worst way to make money in the industry because it is very service intensive and in most cases mobile work is difficult. Life, Health, annuities etc are higher compensation but one must have a marketing plan to succeed. if you work your ass off you can make 250,000 plus if you don't you will make less.

The average agent still only makes 40,000 because he does alot of things on a daily basis that do not generate sales. Remember anything other than marketing and sales work is not productive. If you can farm out administration and concentrate on income producing activity. You can either farm out to automation, CRM's etc or you hire someone. The key is to focus on what makes you money, learn along the way and develop expertise. In that way you can learn in one what took some 10 years to learn.

Can you succeed yes... will it be easy at first no but if you get over the hump it will become seemingly effortless eventually because you will love what you do.

patch36 · 04-14-2009, 10:42 PM

One of my points, though I may not have been clear, is if you have a mentor and a way learning the ropes, you are far better off as an independent and not focusing on P&C. The more immediate and much better money is in L&H.

Not mentioned much but very important is the learning process. You have to read, research and study products. You will never be just a salesman in this business and survive. You have to do the right things for the right reasons, and knowledge of your products will lead you down the right path.

BrokeLoser · 04-15-2009, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Paradigm

On the one hand you could say some are negative on this forum but most are realistic.

The reality is this like it or not 90% of those who attempt insurance sales will fail.

They will fail for a myriad of reason but mostly lack of capital, skills and work ethic are the main culprits.

Sales training is somewhat useful but is an empty calorie in most cases because the student doesn't apply what he learns.

Capital is critical because if you can't market you cannot sell. It does indeed take money to make money and without a well formed marketing scheme clients will not beat a path to your door.

Finally you must work your ass off at least in the beginning. In my opinion P&C is probably the worst way to make money in the industry because it is very service intensive and in most cases mobile work is difficult. Life, Health, annuities etc are higher compensation but one must have a marketing plan to succeed. if you work your ass off you can make 250,000 plus if you don't you will make less.

The average agent still only makes 40,000 because he does alot of things on a daily basis that do not generate sales. Remember anything other than marketing and sales work is not productive. If you can farm out administration and concentrate on income producing activity. You can either farm out to automation, CRM's etc or you hire someone. The key is to focus on what makes you money, learn along the way and develop expertise. In that way you can learn in one what took some 10 years to learn.

Can you succeed yes... will it be easy at first no but if you get over the hump it will become seemingly effortless eventually because you will love what you do.

Lots of good info in your post and much appreciated. I hope I haven't been misunderstood; I appreciate everyones advice good and bad. This thread has gone bad at points, as they usually do. At the end of the day I'm really just trying to figure out where I'd fit in in the insurance business. Are the people that are making sh*t for money bad sales people? Do they just have a poor work ethic? Both? Are they just your typical complacent "sales guy"?....OR...is this just a business that tends to yield a poor return....regardless? Thanks again for contributing.
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Originally Posted by patch36

One of my points, though I may not have been clear, is if you have a mentor and a way learning the ropes, you are far better off as an independent and not focusing on P&C. The more immediate and much better money is in L&H.

Not mentioned much but very important is the learning process. You have to read, research and study products. You will never be just a salesman in this business and survive. You have to do the right things for the right reasons, and knowledge of your products will lead you down the right path.

You see, you say the money is in the L&H while others here would say to focus more on P&C. Is this a simple matter of preference?
Stupid question: Can captive Farmers agents work as an independent for other carriers for L&H?

Thanks again Chuck!

somarco · 04-15-2009, 07:11 AM

Find your passion if you want to succeed.

GetInsurance · 04-15-2009, 07:13 AM

Farmers allows you to sell health, but life must go through their company and they pay about half of what you would earn as an indie. As fas as the diff between the P&C guys and the L/H guys, totally preference and skill as well. People MUST have auto and home insurance while L/H is optional. Skills needed for success. IMO, lack of success/profits is based on laziness and work ethis more than anything else. You can be a terrible salesperson, but if enough people know what you do, you'd have to be doing something terribly wrong to have zero production.

BrokeLoser · 04-15-2009, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by GetInsurance

Farmers allows you to sell health, but life must go through their company and they pay about half of what you would earn as an indie. As fas as the diff between the P&C guys and the L/H guys, totally preference and skill as well. People MUST have auto and home insurance while L/H is optional. Skills needed for success. IMO, lack of success/profits is based on laziness and work ethis more than anything else. You can be a terrible salesperson, but if enough people know what you do, you'd have to be doing something terribly wrong to have zero production.

Half commission?
Wow, they haven't even talked about the L&H side with my buddy yet...maybe thats why. Thanks!

patch36 · 04-15-2009, 09:37 AM

When I was a farmers agent we could sell any other lines as long as Farmers didn't offer them or the client didn't qualify. It was a large gray area. The new contract, I have been told by several agents, does not allow the new agents to sell any other lines except what Farmers offers.

P&C has gotten to be such a commodity and client loyalty goes out the door with price, at some point. P&C ties you down to an office and the huge amount of customer service work is a problem. I don't see many newer agents making it. The old timers have better contracts and a staff to do all the work for them.

You have to sell Life as a Farmers Agent to get subsidy help and relief. You have to get your Series 6 & 63 to be a career agent. If you can find a veteran agent who will let you park in their office for a small rent, you might make it through the probationary period which I believe is 5 years, called the Run to Daylight. It is a tough way to build a business and make a living. The DM's bank on most of the agents washing out. The DM's personally get all the Life Policies you write and they dole out the P&C and get a cut of that too.

djs · 04-15-2009, 02:44 PM

Finally you must work your ass off at least in the beginning. In my opinion P&C is probably the worst way to make money in the industry because it is very service intensive and in most cases mobile work is difficult. Life, Health, annuities etc are higher compensation but one must have a marketing plan to succeed.

This is a bit subjective and needs to be laid to a timeline to make sense out of it.

Keep in mind, most P&C agents have office staff to deal with the day to day admin work. If they don't they can only get to a certain size, and will probably eventually fail.

With P&C, it is mostly about renewals, not new business. It takes a while to build a book of business that pays decent renewals though. After you hit that point, life is pretty simple, or at least simpler.

With life and health, the renewals are nice, but in reality, you probably always need to be finding new clients. You need to keep some of the first year commissions coming in. Yes,you can roll your book every two to three years, which helps (and may help the client), but it's still not the 'easy money' of P&C renewals.

The big difference to me is that with P&C, to be successful, you will end up managing people, office, staff, have a payroll, etc. With life and health, some agents do, but you can be pretty successful on your own.

Stipends / bonuses / subsidies aside, you can make more money in the first few years with life and health compared to P&C. At some point, mostly due to the need to leverage other people (staff), this seems to switch.

Dan

moonlightandmargaritas · 04-15-2009, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by djs

With life and health, the renewals are nice, but in reality, you probably always need to be finding new clients. You need to keep some of the first year commissions coming in. Yes,you can roll your book every two to three years, which helps (and may help the client), but it's still not the 'easy money' of P&C renewals.

Hit the nail squarely on the head there Dan.

djs · 04-15-2009, 02:59 PM

Hit the nail squarely on the head there Dan.

Problem is, when I swung again, my thumb was still in the way!!! :(

moonlightandmargaritas · 04-15-2009, 03:02 PM

With life insurance, it's like 100-120% fyc, then zippo (term anyway). And of course we know what's happened with term premiums...

Health will go down from 20-25% fyc to 5-7% on renewal.

P&C is like a level 10-15%?

BrokeLoser · 04-15-2009, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by moonlightandmargaritas

With life insurance, it's like 100-120% fyc, then zippo (term anyway). And of course we know what's happened with term premiums...

Health will go down from 20-25% fyc to 5-7% on renewal.

P&C is like a level 10-15%?

This thread is back on track...very informative guys, thanks for that.
"And of course we know what's happened with term premiums..."
What happened?