Atlantainsguy and Al
You two seem to be one in the same
You were dead wrong about Anthem and their new drug plan. Yet you can't admit to that.
You are seriously sick.
That's the spirit. For a while in some of your earlier posts you were actually sounding like someone with a modicum of education... you know... like beyond high school. That would have been scary to your vast legion of neo-con friends on this board (that you kiss up to.)
Fortunately with the post above, you are back where you belong, in their good graces and without pretense. It's good to see you back in your element being the good ole' boy "ABC" we've been used to these past 700+ posts.
I won't keep you. I know it's about time for you to holler for the pigs to come in and be fed.
No, we're different people, ABC. I've been following this thread for a while now, and was troubled at how soon it degenerated into name-calling. It concerns me that people are so polarized, and unwilling or unable to compromise on something as important as our national health care system.
No, we're different people, ABC. I've been following this thread for a while now, and was troubled at how soon it degenerated into name-calling. It concerns me that people are so polarized, and unwilling or unable to compromise on something as important as our national health care system.
Atlantainsguy
I have to find a thread where Al is doing anything other than name calling. I'm pretty sure that most people would agree that it would be awesome if we could provide healthcare to everyone who needs it. The sad reality is that someone has to pay for it and apparently Al thinks that calling me a "neo-con" is easier than taking a moment to look at the situation for what it is. The U.S. government and it's citizens have all been spending way more than the could afford to and now we're all living with those consequences.
Al, you're pretty damn thick. I think that most people would agree that providing healthcare to those would be nice, but there is the unavoidable question of who is going to pay for it. Again, regardless of whether you like this administration or not, the way they're going about trying to "fix" the economy is only making things worse. I really and truly cannot understand how destroying cars that are in drivable condition, have been insured for the last year, and are virtually all paid off helps fix the economy. Part of the reason why the housing values were so over inflated was because banks were lending out obscene amounts of money to people who couldn't afford it so the price of everything went up. Since people investors bought these loans, they lost money. In order to fix this problem we need to let the market correct itself. The government handing out vouchers to people as credit towards new cars in exchange for them destroying assets they already had will only inflate car sales for so long. GM is hiring back employees to build more cars to keep up with demand which is great, but I doubt many of them are going to be able to keep those jobs because as soon as the CARS program ends, so will the increase in sales. All this program has done is pushed back the inevitable and in the process gotten Americans in more debt AND spent billions of tax dollars in the process. Let me think for a moment, what else could we be using billions of dollars for.... Is there anything the President talked about while he was campaigning? I think it has to do with doctors and hospitals... oh that's right! The money we're spending on prolonging the inevitable could have been used to help finance healthcare reform.
For all the so called "education" you claim to have you're not investing any amount of time in realizing that you don't have to be a neo-con to think that government spending is out of control or that even though healthcare reform is needed, Obamacare just might not be the answer. You're also willfully ignorant to the idea that there are more than two sides of these discussions, how is that any better than anything else you're ranting about? You're an absolute mess. As I mentioned earlier, I'm happily married to a "dirty liberal" and we talk about lots of things we disagree on. We've also never had a fight. The reality is that I'm more inclined to listen to "liberal rant" and try to understand it than most folks, but you're just being a fool. If you'd have spend even a third of your posts actually expressing your points rather than trying to have a bitchfest about everything you don't like in this forum/country/world maybe folks would actually have a chance to think about some of the legitimate points you have to make. Sure there are some closed-minded, intolerant whack-jobs on here, but are you really moving your agenda any further by being one of them?
I have to find a thread where Al is doing anything other than name calling.
Any time you neo-cons disagree with someone it's always "name calling." Then again, if the shoe fits...
I'm pretty sure that most people would agree that it would be awesome if we could provide healthcare to everyone who needs it.
I remember hearing that line about health care for seniors. So you would repeal Medicare?
Also heard it about civil rights for "everyone" but gee, we have this concept called "states rights" and some states just don't want to let some people sit at lunch counters. Yeah, we've heard your self-centered, xenophobic argument before.
The sad reality is that someone has to pay for it
We can afford it. Of course you might lose your yearly 6-figure commission... but so what. Like I (and the rest of America) might care.
and apparently Al thinks that calling me a "neo-con" is easier than taking a moment to look at the situation for what it is.
The situation as it is is that neo-cons like you are standing in the way of a huge piece of social legislation. So if we can't do it with you, then f---k you. We'll do it without you. That's how we did civil rights, Medicare, voting rights, child labor laws, minimum wage laws, and judicial rights. You neo-cons are not part of the solution... you are part of the problem. Screw that. You ARE the problem.
The U.S. government and it's citizens have all been spending way more than the could afford to and now we're all living with those consequences.
End the wars, cut the military budget in half, tax all gun owners (I love that one!,) cut agricultural subs, end foreign aid, and end the unfair mortgage deduction and we'll have plenty of money for health care.
Al, you're pretty damn thick.
Well, it's better than being pretty damn stupid.
I think that most people would agree that providing healthcare to those would be nice
Sort of like providing civil and voting rights to most people? Do you dream about Barry Goldwater often?
, but there is the unavoidable question of who is going to pay for it.
Um... no question about it. YOU'RE going to pay for it. Face it. As one of your heroines once said "Only the little people pay taxes." (Sorry, it was not Sarah Palin!)
Again, regardless of whether you like this administration or not, the way they're going about trying to "fix" the economy is only making things worse.
Like they could get any worse from your hero George W Bush?
I really and truly cannot understand how destroying cars that are in drivable condition, have been insured for the last year, and are virtually all paid off helps fix the economy.
I've never known an owner of a car dealership (nor a car salesman) who was a liberal. But they all love the free Federal cash.
Part of the reason why the housing values were so over inflated was because banks were lending out obscene amounts of money to people who couldn't afford it so the price of everything went up.
I've never known a mortgage banker who was a liberal, but they all loved the easy credit they got from the Fed.
Since people investors bought these loans, they lost money.
I thought you neo-cons believed in the free market?
In order to fix this problem we need to let the market correct itself.
Yeah, I'm sure AIG and Bear Sterns and Lehmans were just on the verge of "correction."
All this program has done is pushed back the inevitable and in the process gotten Americans in more debt AND spent billions of tax dollars in the process.
"Mr. We could use a man like Herbert Hoover again!"
The money we're spending on prolonging the inevitable could have been used to help finance healthcare reform.
Are you kidding me? You neo-cons would never allow your sainted insurance companies (who provide you with 6-figure incomes,) to be replaced with affordable healthcare. We know it... and we're going to simply have to steamroll over you to get the job done. We did it before in the 60s, so it won't be that big a deal to do it again. Elections matter. You lost. Get over it!
For all the so called "education" you claim to have
I don't "claim" to have it... I actually DO have it... as opposed to the junior college dropout that you are.
You're also willfully ignorant to the idea that there are more than two sides of these discussions,
When in the history of the world has a neo-con like you ever granted anyone else the "privilege" of talking about the "other" side. The only side you know is the side that God is on... and of course it is YOUR side.
how is that any better than anything else you're ranting about? You're an absolute mess.
Again, elections count. You lost. Eat dirt.
As I mentioned earlier, I'm happily married to a "dirty liberal"
You can say anything behind a cloak. My guess is that you are married to a leather boy.
and we talk about lots of things we disagree on.
Like who is on top?
We've also never had a fight.
No whips? No chains? Sounds like a boring gay relationship to me.
The reality is that I'm more inclined to listen to "liberal rant" and try to understand it than most folks,
Oh yeah, we're all believin' that. Yes we are! Reading your posts there is no doubt that you are easily one of the most "moderate" ideologues here! (Do you REALLY believe we're all as stupid as you think we are... or stupider? That's a neo-con for you... bringing a knife to a gun fight! )
but you're just being a fool.
Gee, you think? Silly me. How could I disagree with that?
If you'd have spend [sic] even a third of your posts actually expressing your points rather than trying to have a bitchfest about everything you don't like in this forum/country/world maybe folks would actually have a chance to think about some of the legitimate points you have to make.
Oh come on, Sarah. Don't patronize me. You know, I know, and even Frank's NAA-hating goats know that a liberal/moderate here can never make a "legitimate point." You neos have it all figured out, you have enough anti-Obama race-hate in you to last at least the next four years... and probably the next eight... so why should I or anyone with a modicum of intelligence and higher education even bother with you?
Sure there are some closed-minded, intolerant whack-jobs on here,
I think you lead the parade. And it's a really long parade.
but are you really moving your agenda any further by being one of them?
You really think I have a chance of convincing you and the rest of you homophobic and xenophobic troglodytes that healthcare reform is in the best interests of the country as a whole... when all you care about is your own pecuniary self-interest? How is the weather on Planet Zardo this time of year?
When politics gets marinated in religion, minds close and toxic rhetoric spews forth.
Atlantainsguy
I'll second this one.
Let's keep politics and religion separate. Not doing so simply undermines the importance of both. One deals in this world the other in the next. Again, separate issues.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[quote=al3;182241]
You really think I have a chance of convincing you and the rest of you homophobic and xenophobic troglodytes that healthcare reform is in the best interests of the country as a whole... when all you care about is your own pecuniary self-interest? How is the weather on Planet Zardo this time of year?
Al
Hold up.
Troglodytes, is mine. Get your own material?
O.K., I pilfered it from Montgomery Burns but hey …
P.S.
“Zardo …?”… heh.heh.heh.
Last edited by ins.dave : 08-25-2009 at 06:28 AM.
Reason: Posts merged
I stole "Planet Zardo" from Johnnie Carson... circa 1973.
Some of the old material is all new again as a whole generation has not heard it. For example, this is a line I use with young marrieds. "My wife told me that this year she wants to go somewhere she has never been. I told her - Try the kitchen."
There are lots of old Youngman and Dangerfield lines that work well in a presentation.
For example... when talking to a Jewish guy who has been married for 20 years... "What's a Jewish's woman's dream-house? Twenty-eight rooms in the suburbs, no kitchen..[pause] no bedroom." When talking about death on a life policy presentation, "Jim, do you know why American men die before their wives? Because they want to." (Never use this with newlyweds... they freak.)
Always talk about their pets. "I see you have a beautiful Golden there. When I was single I got a dog. I figured I could use him to meet girls. I found he was using me to meet other dogs!"
For educated people with a quick wit: "My wife and I were happy for twenty years. Then we met."
I haven't talked to my wife in three days. I didn't want to interrupt her.
I was born in Canada. My father loved to drink. He saw a a sign saying, "Drink Canada Dry"; so he went up there.
A priest is sent to Alaska. A Bishop goes up to visit a year later. the Bishop asks, "How do you like it up here?"
The priest says. "If it wasn't for my Rosary and two martinis a day, I'd be lost. Would youl like a Martini Bishop?"
"Yes, I would", says the Bishop
The Priests says "Rosary, bring the bishop a Martini."
(Rim-shot anytime here!)
In my experience Jews and Catholics are the best candidates for humor. Methodists are good as well. Same with Unitarians. Presbys and fundamentalists... not so much. I don't know why.... never figured it out.
And do you want to know a couple of the best "tools" for learning how to sell... one is stand-up comedy... try it at a local comedy club when they have open-mike night. Another avenue is Toastmasters. Mine meets at 6:30 AM on Thursdays and I try to go once or twice a month. Each large community has a ton of them... lots to learn and they always welcome new people. Dues are cheap as well... like about $30 a quarter.
Selling is talking to people.... part teacher, part entertainer. It can all be learned if you are willing to make the effort. My late dad sold life insurance for almost 40 years... and he was a pro! I'll never be as good as he was, but I try. He always said "People love to buy... but hate to be sold."
The situation as it is is that neo-cons like you are standing in the way of a huge piece of social legislation. So if we can't do it with you, then f---k you. We'll do it without you. That's how we did civil rights, Medicare, voting rights, child labor laws, minimum wage laws, and judicial rights. You neo-cons are not part of the solution... you are part of the problem. Screw that. You ARE the problem.
End the wars, cut the military budget in half, tax all gun owners (I love that one!,) cut agricultural subs, end foreign aid, and end the unfair mortgage deduction and we'll have plenty of money for health care.
Like they could get any worse from your hero George W Bush?
Yeah, I'm sure AIG and Bear Sterns and Lehmans were just on the verge of "correction."
Are you kidding me? You neo-cons would never allow your sainted insurance companies (who provide you with 6-figure incomes,) to be replaced with affordable healthcare. We know it... and we're going to simply have to steamroll over you to get the job done. We did it before in the 60s, so it won't be that big a deal to do it again. Elections matter. You lost. Get over it!
When in the history of the world has a neo-con like you ever granted anyone else the "privilege" of talking about the "other" side. The only side you know is the side that God is on... and of course it is YOUR side.
Oh yeah, we're all believin' that. Yes we are! Reading your posts there is no doubt that you are easily one of the most "moderate" ideologues here! (Do you REALLY believe we're all as stupid as you think we are... or stupider? That's a neo-con for you... bringing a knife to a gun fight! )
You really think I have a chance of convincing you and the rest of you homophobic and xenophobic troglodytes that healthcare reform is in the best interests of the country as a whole... when all you care about is your own pecuniary self-interest? How is the weather on Planet Zardo this time of year?
Al
Wow. Then f--k you? You want people to consider your perspective on things and you're going that route and referring to my wife as a man? That's special.
Tax gun owners? That's going to make the world a better place? Let's skip ahead and talk about the healthcare reform, let's tax those who have chosen to make themselves unhealthy and tax things like soda and candy! Part of the reason other countries can afford socialized healthcare is because they are a healthier risk. By far our country is one of the most overweight and least healthy which drives healthcare costs up. As an insurance agent and someone who claims to be intelligent, why aren't you seeing that as being more of the problem? Health insurance companies don't provide healthcare, they're a way of financing it. If someone goes down the the car dealership and buys a car they can't afford, they shouldn't get upset at the finance company because the car payment is so expensive, they should look at less expensive cars. When folks diet and exercise habits put them 80lbs overweight and as a result they become diabetic, they're making decisions which drive up the cost of their healthcare. This thread started because you were complaining that Anthem is making decisions about what prescriptions people receive and what they'll cover. Do you want to take a guess as to why they have to do this? Oh that's right, because people are complaining that they can't afford the cost of their health insurance, so health insurance companies have tried to help make it more affordable. Maybe nudging people in the direction of generic drugs that generally work just as well and not paying for duplicate radiology helps lower premiums? Just something to think about. Not that they're doing this as a charity, but the fact of the matter is that insurance is the way we pay for health insurance, not the way we receive healthcare.
AIG, Bear Sterns and Lehmans were going to be casualties of the stock market correction. Were AIG to collapse the consequences would have been so catastrophic I believe that keeping them financial solvent was necessary (and yes, I really, really, REALLY hate to say that), but I think that more companies should have been allowed to fail so the market could correct itself. What we've done now is reward bad behavior.
Healthcare reform is absolutely necessary, but pumping tax dollars through a broken system is absolutely not the best solution. Whether Obama is black, white, yellow, green or orange doesn't change the fact that the healthcare reform he's pushing is a mistake. This "healthcare reform" term your using is on par with the term "patriot act". Yes, we need to reform healthcare, but the healthcare reform you're supporting is expensive, and more importantly wasteful. If our jackass president and his cult-like following wants to bring access to healthcare to everyone, why not take the cash for clunkers program money, or the bailout money, or any of this other money that seems to be laying around and fund more walk-in clinics so people can go see a doctor and receive healthcare if they can't afford it. Insuring millions of Americans and unauthorized visitors will be more expensive than the actual cost of healthcare. I hate the idea of a government run healthcare model, but the clinic model would be a much more cost effective way of solving the problem we have. If you're so interested in open-minded discussions why don't you take a moment to think about that one?
Speaking of jackasses, why you're calling everyone that disagrees with you a neo-con. I don't know many people on either side of the party line that thought Bush was a great President, but he articulated your view on the world well when he said "If you're not with us, you're against us!" You bring intolerant to a whole new level.
But he articulated your view on the world well when he said "If you're not with us, you're against us!" You bring intolerant to a whole new level.
I've learned from you and the "rest of the best" here.
As for healthcare reform, you guys are not on board. You just want to protect your 6-figure incomes and your sainted carriers.
Just like all the other great social reforms in my lifetime, you're invited to join, but we know you won't so we'll do it without you. Yep. You've told us to f--k ourselves. Now you're hearing it back from us... and you don't much like it do you. Historically, we libs are not used to saying it, either. Well, here it is again. F--k you. (Now I know why you guys like to say that so often. I DOES feel good to vent! See what we can learn from you neos? Thanks.)
All you neo-cons should move to one state... say Alabama... and rename it... Neoconamerica. Or better yet... Hell.
I've learned from you and the "rest of the best" here.
As for healthcare reform, you guys are not on board. You just want to protect your 6-figure incomes and your sainted carriers.
Just like all the other great social reforms in my lifetime, you're invited to join, but we know you won't so we'll do it without you. Yep. You've told us to f--k ourselves. Now you're hearing it back from us... and you don't much like it do you. Historically, we libs are not used to saying it, either. Well, here it is again. F--k you. (Now I know why you guys like to say that so often. I DOES feel good to vent! See what we can learn from you neos? Thanks.)
All you neo-cons should move to one state... say Alabama... and rename it... Neoconamerica. Or better yet... Hell.
Al
I've not once told you to go f--k yourself, not even once. I'm not talking about historical libs, I'm talking about the rebel without a cause or reason libs we have today, like yourself. You claim to want other people to understand your perspective, but you can't be reasoned with when it comes to the issues. Healthcare reform the way you are talking about it is going to cost money we, as a country, don't have. All personal interests aside, the program will collapse on itself faster and harder than Medicare and SS ever could. You can tell me to go f--k myself all you want, but the idiot this country elected as the President is going to f--k us all. Maybe being a cranky old bastard who doesn't care what the economy is like in 40 years is helping you ignore the fiscal irresponsibility of the proposed healthcare plan. It shouldn't surprise me, but I'm impressed that you can ignore the ticking time bombs of Medicare and SS and say that we still have the money to provide not only healthcare, but health insurance for everyone in America. What do you think is going to happen when a program that serves over 50 million Americans is no longer financially solvent? Think about how many people depend on their SS check each month for what food and healthcare they can afford on it and then think about how many of those you want to lose that so we can subsidize a healthcare program that will easily waste 40 cents on the dollar in just administration.
What on earth makes you think the government can even do an acceptable job administering a healthcare program? You do realize we do have socialized healthcare programs now, right? Have you taken a look at how well Medicaid, Medicare and the VA healthcare systems work? Medicaid reimbursements are low, folks who have the "insurance" usually can't even find a doctor that will take the damn stuff, much less one that's actually any good. The utilization is through the roof because most of the idiots that are on it use the E.R. as a primary care, have multiple chronic conditions they WONT manage, and a large percentage of the healthcare dollars are doing nothing more than rewarding bad behavior like giving government handouts to failing businesses. I'm not saying that the people don't deserve to live, but if healthcare access to all is going to happen American's need to lose some weight and take care of their health. I will give Obama credit for pointing that out.
That's Medicaid, Medicare is as bad or worse. Original Medicare has a first day deductible that's more than many senior's monthly SS checks and God (or whatever deity you worship or don't) help the poor senior that needs cancer treatments and doesn't have any other health insurance. How is that protecting them from catastrophic events? It's not, and that's a problem. Another point worth mentioning about Medicare is that each year they pay out millions of dollars in claims that are completely bogus and even more that go unnoticed. Going back to a previous point, the program itself is insolvent in less than 10 years. Most folks on Medicare also do not get their preventive care so that not only drives up costs, but lowers life expectancies.
Now we've reached our final stop in our tour of U.S. government run social healthcare programs, the VA. We have yet another underfunded program where folks are on a waiting list to get services. I met with a man who needed his shoulder operated on and was told he'd have to wait 3 months. It gets to be the week before his surgery and they call him to let him know it will be another two months. A week or two before that appointment he gets the same call saying it's going to be pushed back again. This story has a funny ending, he actually enrolls in a Medicare Advantage program so that he can get the surgery outside of the VA healthcare system because the guy actually likes to use his left shoulder. I'd like to turn the floor over to Al to explain to us how our veterans aren't receiving the healthcare they deserve and go over some of the programs other weak points.
Al, I get that you're a cranky old bastard that doesn't care what the economy looks like in 40 years because you'll probably be dead and buried by then, but for those of us who are planning on being around it's concerning that we have an administration that has not only increased spending by leaps and bounds, but has made a promise and commitment to the American people to do even more. To make matters worse, you, along with a bunch of other lemmings, are believing it when says that he's going to fix everything and make America a better place without even questioning it. You do realize that we're not even out of Iraq yet AND we're sending more troops to Afghanistan, yet we're going around spending money like we just won the lottery. Doesn't that send up ANY flags for you? He couldn't even follow through with pulling out of Iraq which was one of the biggest complaints folks in your camp have, so why do you believe anything he says?
Good rant. You make a few good points, but most of it is based on speculation and innuendo. I heard most of what you neo-cons say back when I was in high school n 1963 and Medicare was being debated.
If I really thought you cared about sick people or people less fortunate than yourselves I would pay more attention, but now, like it was 50 years ago, it is all about greed... your greed.
If we get health reform and it bankrupts the country, maybe from your standpoint it will be a good thing. You will sweep into power with the banner of fiscal reform.
My point is simply that we need some kind of reform and we can't sit on our hands the way you neo-cons always want to.
I'm for change... any change... good or bad... because whatever we get will be better than what we have now. That's how it was in 1963, it is how it is now.
Get on board, or get the f--k out of the way. You lost the election. Get over it.
Good rant. You make a few good points, but most of it is based on speculation and innuendo. I heard most of what you neo-cons say back when I was in high school n 1963 and Medicare was being debated.
If I really thought you cared about sick people or people less fortunate than yourselves I would pay more attention, but now, like it was 50 years ago, it is all about greed... your greed.
If we get health reform and it bankrupts the country, maybe from your standpoint it will be a good thing. You will sweep into power with the banner of fiscal reform.
My point is simply that we need some kind of reform and we can't sit on our hands the way you neo-cons always want to.
I'm for change... any change... good or bad... because whatever we get will be better than what we have now. That's how it was in 1963, it is how it is now.
Get on board, or get the f--k out of the way. You lost the election. Get over it.
Al
That's by far one of the most polite posts you've made and I hope the trend will continue. Do you even know what a neo-con is? If you're acknowledging the fact that you don't care if it's a bad change than I can see why you're supporting what's currently on the table.
I don't see how wanting to keep more than 50 cents of every dollar I make is exactly greedy. I'm a huge fan of people taking some accountability for what they can. Two months ago I had the privilege of being a pallbearer for a close friend of mine who passed away. The reason why I bring that up is because she was diagnosed with stage IV colon cancer at age 24. There was absolutely nothing she could have done to prevent that from happening. The cost of one drug alone for her bi-weekly cancer treatments was over $10,000. Fortunately she worked for a large fortune 500 company that had a good health insurance plan that covered almost 100% of everything and she could spend more time focusing on enjoying the last part of her life with her family and less focusing on insurance. What would have happened if she didn't have a good job? Odds are she would have spent most of her time fighting with Medicaid and hoping some types of treatment were covered, I believe that should be changed.
Let's talk about a lady I go to church with. She's in her 40's and is morbidly obese. She's an insulin dependent diabetic and has 13 year old daughter who is also an insulin dependent diabetic who and morbidly obese. Most American's with diabetes could manage it with diet and exercise instead of expensive diabetic drugs, but that's not the conversation people are having. According to the American Diabetes Association Direct & Indirect Costs of Diabetes in the United States, the healthcare cost of managing diabetes is in excess of $6,500/year per person. Now for the punch line, this lady was the head of our activities committee and every single time we had an activity it was nothing but sugar and sweets for food. Obviously not everyone can treat their diabetes with diet and exercise, but if the government is going to provide healthcare to everyone that is an issue that must be addressed. In all seriousness a "fat tax", or a tax on sugary and fatty foods to be put in a fund to help offset the costs of caring for the morbidly obese is probably a financially viable option that would also help folks put more thought into the way they're taking care of their health. If we must go down the health insurance route, we should be taking a look at high deductible plans with HSA's attached to them so that people at least stop and think about whether they want to run to the E.R. every time they roll their ankle or ask their doctor about (fill in the blank drug) they didn't need before but saw a commercial for.
Not that my opinion matters, but I think that if we were to use the Medicare Advantage model of private health insurance carriers contracting with the government to provide healthcare and opened it up to everyone, not just Medicare beneficiaries that'd be the least traumatic way of introducing universal healthcare. One of the fiscal problems with the MA plans is the government pays the same amount whether the person uses the services or not. Medicare paying a carrier $800++/month for someone who isn't using the benefits is not saving anyone anything. To make this truly cost effective the government should be self-insuring the risk like they were before, and just paying the private carriers to administer the benefits. So maybe the answer is that the government doesn't try to administer a health plan for everyone, but gives folks the option of enrolling in a public option through a private carrier which is guaranteed issue, rather than health underwritten. The insureds under this type of program should have to pay at least a couple of bucks, but it should be minimal. The carriers would have to compete on networks and "extras" like vision and maybe dental, but that money would come out of whatever their admin fee is. So the insureds would pay $5-$25/month, the carriers would receive that plus maybe another $50/month from the government for an admin fee, and then the carriers would pay for the claims out of the reserve funds the government provided them. I'm sure I'm off on the numbers, but at least this way the carriers would have a guaranteed profit, even if it's not as much as they were getting now, and the government wouldn't be paying out obscene amounts of subsidies to private carriers who may or may not have to be paying claims. In a perfect world there would be some type of incentive for the carriers to manage utilization and help drive costs down while providing quality access to healthcare, but that's far more detail than I'll get into here.
The bottom line is that there are well over 100 ways we could "reform" healthcare that don't involve pouring more tax dollars into a broken system, but I don't think the Obama administration is even trying to look at it that way.
The bottom line is that there are well over 100 ways we could "reform" healthcare that don't involve pouring more tax dollars into a broken system, but I don't think the Obama administration is even trying to look at it that way.
Everything you posted is fine, especially the above. I've long been on record in favor of whatever change we can GET. If you neo-cons can get a system that keeps your jobs and provides universal care through the private sector, fine.
If you can't (and I don't think you can since you lost the last election) than I'm in favor of what the administration and congress comes up with.
The difference between myself and the rest of you is that you want YOUR plan... and if you don't get it you will do what you can to block ANY plan.
I, on the other hand, will take ANY change, even if it cost me a "job" and even if it is not a good plan... because I don't see what we have now as sustainable. I want to put something, anything, into place and move on. If it looks like we will go broke, well then we will just re-prioritize or budget... fight fewer wars, have a smaller military, pay lower agricultural subs, end foreign aid, etc. (I'd support a government that does nothing but run the military, runs the courts, inspect the food/drugs/water, regulates polution, regulates the financial sector, provides law enforcement, and provides social security and healthcare. You can shut down just about everything else as far as I'm concerned.... HUD, education, trans, commerce, and on and on.)
The issue I keep seeing here is similar to what I saw in the mid-60s when civil rights legislation was being debated. The conservatives were sort of OK with voting and school integration, but they drew a line in the sand over public accommodations. They simply did not want to pee into a urinal while standing next to a black guy. It was a no-compromise issue such that the liberals (at that time there were lots of Northern Republican liberals... the Rockefeller wing of the party) who finally decided that compromise was impossible so they (LBJ) just rammed it through and said "to hell" with the Stroms and his ilk of the day.
That's about how I see it now. The Republicans don't want to come and sit at the table and be part of the solution... and to be honest the liberals who feel they have a mandate, don't want to compromise. It is pretty much the way it was in 1964 when we got civil rights and medicare passed.
I know you young-gun neo-cons are seeing the end of civilization as you know it. So did your Southern parents and grandparents back when they had to send their kids (you?) to a school with black kids... or when they had to sit next to black people on a bus or at a lunch counter. But the world didn't come to an end... medicare did not bankrupt the country as it was predicted to do, nor did the quality of medical care erode.
So you guys can play chicken little and tell me about how the sky is falling, but I've heard and seen it all before.
I know one Jew that has a tool set
It's my dentist!
This is not selling!
You could never close a serious client with that approach.
Originally Posted by al3
I stole "Planet Zardo" from Johnnie Carson... circa 1973.
Some of the old material is all new again as a whole generation has not heard it. For example, this is a line I use with young marrieds. "My wife told me that this year she wants to go somewhere she has never been. I told her - Try the kitchen."
There are lots of old Youngman and Dangerfield lines that work well in a presentation.
For example... when talking to a Jewish guy who has been married for 20 years... "What's a Jewish's woman's dream-house? Twenty-eight rooms in the suburbs, no kitchen..[pause] no bedroom." When talking about death on a life policy presentation, "Jim, do you know why American men die before their wives? Because they want to." (Never use this with newlyweds... they freak.)
Always talk about their pets. "I see you have a beautiful Golden there. When I was single I got a dog. I figured I could use him to meet girls. I found he was using me to meet other dogs!"
For educated people with a quick wit: "My wife and I were happy for twenty years. Then we met."
I haven't talked to my wife in three days. I didn't want to interrupt her.
I was born in Canada. My father loved to drink. He saw a a sign saying, "Drink Canada Dry"; so he went up there.
A priest is sent to Alaska. A Bishop goes up to visit a year later. the Bishop asks, "How do you like it up here?"
The priest says. "If it wasn't for my Rosary and two martinis a day, I'd be lost. Would youl like a Martini Bishop?"
"Yes, I would", says the Bishop
The Priests says "Rosary, bring the bishop a Martini."
(Rim-shot anytime here!)
In my experience Jews and Catholics are the best candidates for humor. Methodists are good as well. Same with Unitarians. Presbys and fundamentalists... not so much. I don't know why.... never figured it out.
And do you want to know a couple of the best "tools" for learning how to sell... one is stand-up comedy... try it at a local comedy club when they have open-mike night. Another avenue is Toastmasters. Mine meets at 6:30 AM on Thursdays and I try to go once or twice a month. Each large community has a ton of them... lots to learn and they always welcome new people. Dues are cheap as well... like about $30 a quarter.
Selling is talking to people.... part teacher, part entertainer. It can all be learned if you are willing to make the effort. My late dad sold life insurance for almost 40 years... and he was a pro! I'll never be as good as he was, but I try. He always said "People love to buy... but hate to be sold."
Everything you posted is fine, especially the above. I've long been on record in favor of whatever change we can GET. If you neo-cons can get a system that keeps your jobs and provides universal care through the private sector, fine.
I, on the other hand, will take ANY change, even if it cost me a "job" and even if it is not a good plan... because I don't see what we have now as sustainable. I want to put something, anything, into place and move on. If it looks like we will go broke, well then we will just re-prioritize or budget... fight fewer wars, have a smaller military, pay lower agricultural subs, end foreign aid, etc. (I'd support a government that does nothing but run the military, runs the courts, inspect the food/drugs/water, regulates polution, regulates the financial sector, provides law enforcement, and provides social security and healthcare. You can shut down just about everything else as far as I'm concerned.... HUD, education, trans, commerce, and on and on.)
The issue I keep seeing here is similar to what I saw in the mid-60s when civil rights legislation was being debated. The conservatives were sort of OK with voting and school integration, but they drew a line in the sand over public accommodations. They simply did not want to pee into a urinal while standing next to a black guy. It was a no-compromise issue such that the liberals (at that time there were lots of Northern Republican liberals... the Rockefeller wing of the party) who finally decided that compromise was impossible so they (LBJ) just rammed it through and said "to hell" with the Stroms and his ilk of the day.
I know you young-gun neo-cons are seeing the end of civilization as you know it. So did your Southern parents and grandparents back when they had to send their kids (you?) to a school with black kids... or when they had to sit next to black people on a bus or at a lunch counter. But the world didn't come to an end... medicare did not bankrupt the country as it was predicted to do, nor did the quality of medical care erode.
So you guys can play chicken little and tell me about how the sky is falling, but I've heard and seen it all before.
For the last time, I'm not a young-gun or a neo-con. I'm an independent thinking citizen who is financial conservative and doesn't believe in big government. The problem with Medicare wasn't that it would bankrupt America then, the problem is that it's a time bomb scheduled to go off within the next few decades.
"Fight fewer wars". That's awesome, why is Obama sending more troops to Afghanistan and not pulling out of Iraq not concerning you? Allegedly he was going to bring troops home. You don't believe in supporting HUD or education? What type of a liberal are you? If HUD has it's funding cut, where are the sick and less fortunate that you want to take care of going to live?
The problem with our current system is it's NOT sustainable. Medicare is running out of money and it's only a matter of decades until the **** hits the fan with that one. The reason why I'm concerned about the future is because no one is asking these questions. Most of the liberals who support Obama don't even know what questions to ask! Asking questions about where this money is coming from or how these programs would work would go a long way, but "main street" isn't looking at that. There believing it when he has statements on his website like this:
"Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, in testimony prepared for delivery to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, said, “The president is open to good ideas about how we finance health reform. But we are not open to deficit spending. Health reform will be paid for and it will be deficit neutral over ten years.""
All the public at large knows right now is that "Obama wants healthcare for everyone" and that he's claiming it will pay for itself, beyond that they're completely oblivious which should be absolutely embarrassing given that we live in a day and an age where sharing information is so easy.
At the very least I think it's safe to say that you've put a lot of thought into these issues and are a concerned citizen, but, and I mean this as nicely as I can, you're not even questioning Obama on his plan. Again, I truly appreciate that you've thought about this so much and have arguments about things and spend time voicing your opinions, but you're not even taking a look at how much it would cost or how sustainable the healthcare delivery model is. Where is the independent thinking? Why aren't people challenging what's being proposed? This "you're either for us or against us" political rhetoric is EXACTLY what Obama administration wants. If America is busy bickering about whether socialized healthcare is a good idea or not, while the "powers that be" are organizing the healthcare system that is to THEIR advantage and puts tax dollars in THEIR pockets, then they'll be getting whatever they want. The Obama administration doesn't want what's best for the American citizens, they are really and truly just like any other major political party and want what's best for them. Until the American people can see that for what it is and not blindly trust the new administration, we're going to keep seeing the government wasting billions of dollars on programs that not only don't work, but haven't been thought through enough to have a chance at succeeding.
Al, it's been fun, it really has, but I gotta get some work done. I'm glad we could find things we could agree on and have a lively debate here I'm sure plenty of viewers have found interesting.
Well the bottom line is generic or brand named drugs are both effective the only difference is the cost..And the only thing u can do is to buy what is asked..Why argue?
Al3,
It's really very simple. Anthem Blue Cross is the bank where all the money is. The doctor is the bank robber.
The doctor prescribes medication based on the breast size of the pharmaceutical rep. Anthem is only trying to get the doctor to think with his big head instead of the little head.
Al3,
It's really very simple. Anthem Blue Cross is the bank where all the money is. The doctor is the bank robber.
The doctor prescribes medication based on the breast size of the pharmaceutical rep. Anthem is only trying to get the doctor to think with his big head instead of the little head.
There is some truth to this.
Originally Posted by BeatriceSmith
Well the bottom line is generic or brand named drugs are both effective the only difference is the cost..And the only thing u can do is to buy what is asked..Why argue?
It not about arguing its about the insured taking an active role with their health care. Even with all the technology available for research I still have to inform clients and prospect about drug options.
"Do you know that brand name medication has 3 generics maybe you should talk to your Doc about those options?"
Now with Anthems new drug plan if the doc writes a letter stating that the patient must take the brand then there is no cost shifting.
Re: Anthem is Now Your Doctor
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