Scroll down for a discussion on Anyone in the life-settlement biz? within the General Insurance Agent Discussions.
In Broker World magazine I saw an adv. for:
http://www.maplelifefinancial.com
Anyone here do life settlements (viaticals?). I never hear these mentioned on the board.
Do ...
Anyone here do life settlements (viaticals?). I never hear these mentioned on the board.
Do all policies these days come with an automatic accelerated payment on a terminal illness? Even if so, I'll bet there are people who want to dump their policy and get some cash for it (perhaps to screw their kids :-))
I noticed you have a few posts regarding life settlements. I'm new to the forum and this is my area or expertise. How active are you in the market? Let me know if there is anything I can do to help you out.
Anyone here do life settlements (viaticals?). I never hear these mentioned on the board.
Do all policies these days come with an automatic accelerated payment on a terminal illness? Even if so, I'll bet there are people who want to dump their policy and get some cash for it (perhaps to screw their kids :-))
Al
Maple is one of the monsters in the industry. They are a provider (actual people who buy and hold) the policies. If you ever get a chance to hear Nate Evans (their CEO) or Alan Buerger (CEO Coventry) speak, I would highly recommend it.
There are plenty of clients who are taking advantage of this market. In 2007 the life settlement market did about 12billion in business.
FYI these people aren't screwing their kids and guido won't come hunting for them!
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Send me a PM to find out how life settlements can help your clients!
"Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less" ~~Robert E Lee
Ummmm, no, but this linked site spells it out pretty good.... I will let this opinion spell it out for me... I could not have done all this research and written so eloquently about it, so let these folks say it all....
Anyone here do life settlements (viaticals?). I never hear these mentioned on the board.
Do all policies these days come with an automatic accelerated payment on a terminal illness? Even if so, I'll bet there are people who want to dump their policy and get some cash for it (perhaps to screw their kids :-))
Al
Al, I don't do viaticals because I think they are a bad deal for the client. That's my personal opinion... here is the State of Kansas, Department of Insurance word on it: http://www.ksinsurance.org/consumers...erviatical.pdf
Just noticed that the original post to this thread is over a year old. Should have checked this first... the reply is recent and caught me off guard.
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To be truly independent, an agent should not be dependent on a government bureaucrat for contracts or commissions.
Yes you should base your opinion off of a very old article on quatloos.
Your article uses a case study of a senior with a million dollar policy. in the article they state that he cannot afford to keep the policy, but condem him for selling it. quatloos states that the children are the biggest loser, but do not give any alternatives. in the article it is very clear, sell the policy for 500k or let it lapse. both cases, the kids get nothing, unless the senior invests the 500k or uses it to pay his bills and leaves his family debt free.
Tell me this, the lapse ratio in the us is around 80%. in your opinion if a senior is going to let their policy lapse, would you rather them take the csv? seems like it would make more sense for them to sell it for 5 times the csv. life settlements should not be aggresively marketed, but should be a tool that you utilize when your client tells you the policy is going to lapse, or a term policy is coming up and they are not going to convert it to a ul.
You are obviously replying to the post above mine... you did not quote the post you were referring to.
If a client is confronted with a terminal illness, IF he has an "accelerated benefits" rider, he should use that, and not a viatical settlement.
IF he does not have this provision in his policy, then your option may be of some relief.... however, I would never sell a policy that did not include an accelerated death benefit rider, especially these days where death can be prolonged until the victim is completely drained financially.
Even LTCi may not be of much help, because the length of an illness can exceed the policy benefits.
The caveat with accelerated benefits is that they are usually capped at 50% of the equity. My question to you, is: what if a client has used up his accelerated benefits?... is a viatical settlement still available?
I want to know what will benefit my clients... What can you say to persuade me that a viatical settlement will not hurt anyone?
If somebody comes on here and starts touting some product that they sell, it's usually determined to be spam. So, I shall just wait around and see if this is determined to be spam. But, meantime, while we all wait, do the research. It's fun. It's educational, it helps with the reading skills.
Anyone viewing this thread should realize that a viatical settlement (life insurance policy sold by the insured) has two sides to the sale: a seller and a buyer.
The buyer has some cautions also. Here is what the State of Kansas says to prospective investors in viaticals:
Maple is one of the monsters in the industry. They are a provider (actual people who buy and hold) the policies. If you ever get a chance to hear Nate Evans (their CEO) or Alan Buerger (CEO Coventry) speak, I would highly recommend it.
There are plenty of clients who are taking advantage of this market. In 2007 the life settlement market did about 12billion in business.
FYI these people aren't screwing their kids and guido won't come hunting for them!
Alan Buerger is CEO of Coventry First, not to be confused with Coventry Health Care, which is the usual reference to "Coventry" on this forum.... here is the way they (Coventry First) work:
Coventry First LLC Company Profile Nikolai Gogol wrote about buying the names of dead serfs to build up the appearance of wealth, but Coventry First is more interested in buying their unused life insurance policies to build up actual wealth. The company is one of the largest players in the secondary insurance market. It actively invests in high-premium life insurance policies, written on elderly executives or wealthy individuals desiring to sell them rather than maintain them. The seller gets a lump sum (only a portion of what they would have received otherwise), Coventry pays the remaining premiums, and when that person finally dies, Coventry gets the payout. Founded in 1999, the company is controlled by CEO Alan Buerger and family
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Originally Posted by HomeService
I knew I liked Kansas when I drove through there...
We shoot straight around these parts... have to: supper depends on it!
Last edited by retread : 10-22-2008 at 01:58 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
You are obviously replying to the post above mine... you did not quote the post you were referring to.
If a client is confronted with a terminal illness, IF he has an "accelerated benefits" rider, he should use that, and not a viatical settlement.
IF he does not have this provision in his policy, then your option may be of some relief.... however, I would never sell a policy that did not include an accelerated death benefit rider, especially these days where death can be prolonged until the victim is completely drained financially.
Even LTCi may not be of much help, because the length of an illness can exceed the policy benefits.
The caveat with accelerated benefits is that they are usually capped at 50% of the equity. My question to you, is: what if a client has used up his accelerated benefits?... is a viatical settlement still available?
I want to know what will benefit my clients... What can you say to persuade me that a viatical settlement will not hurt anyone?
My post was not in reference to yours. i was writing my post when yours came up, sorry for the confusion.
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Also wanted to state that the VIATICAL (not life settlement) market is almost non existant. Most funders will not touch a policy with a LE of 24mo or less and most states (even unregulated life settlement states) require a seperate viatical license.
Last edited by lifesettlementadvisor : 10-22-2008 at 02:22 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
In this lawsuit you can drill down to how the system works, and of the ethical problems uncovered by Coventry First by the AG of NY. Very good article!
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Originally Posted by lifesettlementadvisor
my post was not in reference to yours. i was writing my post when yours came up, sorry for the confusion.
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Also wanted to state that the VIATICAL (not life settlement) market is almost non existant. Most funders will not touch a policy with a LE of 24mo or less and most states (even unregulated life settlement states) require a seperate viatical license.
Sorry, but Viatical IS life settlement... are you talking about STOLI?
Last edited by retread : 10-22-2008 at 02:36 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Sorry, but Viatical IS life settlement... are you talking about STOLI?
No, I'm not talking about STOLI, BI deals are a completely different topic.
A Viatical is not the Same as a Life Settlement. If you call any life settlement provider and tell them you have a viatical settlement, they will hang up on you.
A Viatical Settlement is the settlement of a life case where the insured has a LE of less than 24 months due to age or a terminal illness.
A Life Settlement is the settlement of a life case where the insured has a LE of MORE than 24 months.
Viaticals are options for anyone with a LE of 24 months or less, regardless of age. Life Settlements are only applicable for seniors (65+).
No, I'm not talking about STOLI, BI deals are a completely different topic.
A Viatical is not the Same as a Life Settlement. If you call any life settlement provider and tell them you have a viatical settlement, they will hang up on you.
A Viatical Settlement is the settlement of a life case where the insured has a LE of less than 24 months due to age or a terminal illness.
A Life Settlement is the settlement of a life case where the insured has a LE of MORE than 24 months.
Viaticals are options for anyone with a LE of 24 months or less, regardless of age. Life Settlements are only applicable for seniors (65+).
AH! Texas has set up regulations that license Viatical brokers and distinguishes between "life settlements" and "viatical settlements" --- Kansas does not. An attempt was made to enact this regulation beginning in 2004, but was terminated in 2007. Kansas came to the conclusion that this was a mess they didn't want to have to deal with. In Kansas, a viatical settlement is a life settlement and vice versa.
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Note: Kansas does not license viatical brokers, there is no such license.
Doesnt matter if the state requires a license or not, EVERYONE in this industry recognizes a destinct difference between viaticals and life settlements. its ok that you are wrong, this board is to learn, but you don't have to be so stubborn on it. Call any broker or provider and they will tell you the same thing!
Its like term and WL....they are both life insurance, but they are two different segments of the industry.
doesnt matter if the state requires a license or not, EVERYONE in this industry recognizes a destinct difference between viaticals and life settlements. its ok that you are wrong, this board is to learn, but you don't have to be so stubborn on it. Call any broker or provider and they will tell you the same thing!
Its like term and WL....they are both life insurance, but they are two different segments of the industry.
I don't think you know what you are talking about. Traditional Life settlements are things such as AD&D, (double indemnity, etc), accelerated death benefits (usually ridered), and other settlement options that describe the payout.
The re-sale of life insurance in the secondary market is a new industry that has come under scrutiny, and is being addressed by the NAIC. Some states, such as Kansas have looked at the issues and are enacting consumer protections such as this year's restrictions on STOLIs.
Just because Texas allows it, does not mean it is accepted by the industry as a whole. It is possible that Texas may reverse its action and withdraw licensure.
That you have a vested interest in promoting this activity does not validate your comment that I am wrong. You are legal in Texas, but you would not be received well in Kansas.
And NO, it is not different like Whole Life and Term.
Stranger/Investor-Originated Life Insurance (STOLI) “Deals”
*Offered to consumers ages 65-85
*Allows strangers, not your loved ones, to own most of the death benefit from your policy
*You may be offered a lump-sum payment for signing over the death benefits to strangers
*The lump sum may be taxable
*The life insurance industry considers such “death futures” illegal
*The STOLI could leave you without future insurability
*National groups oppose such policies
*Traditional life settlement policies can be beneficial
*Follow the “Stop.Call.Confirm” method for evaluation
Man you have gone way off track. our argument in this thread has been about the difference between a viatical and life settlement, now you start in on STOLI's?
Yes a stoli is a form of a life settlement (not a viatical, it is impossible to do a stoli on a person with a le of 24 months or less, for obvious reasons).
The STOLI market has dried up, but there are plenty of people still doing them. Most state's (including TX) have released a similar announcement about them, but have not made them illegal. The only state that has cracked down is OH. Personally I do not participate in the STOLI market, but can refer anyone to a group that does.
Anyone in the life-settlement biz?
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