Insurance Agent Forum

[MSIS]

We had a meeting explaining the Penn Treaty LTCi quickpass the other day at work and I was wondering if any agents are currently selling this and if they find it easier then most traditional LTC products?

[moonlightandmargaritas]

Originally Posted by MSIS

We had a meeting explaining the Penn Treaty LTCi quickpass the other day at work and I was wondering if any agents are currently selling this and if they find it easier then most traditional LTC products?

Why would anyone get a client involved with a company that has had such myriad financial problems and issues for well over ten years now?

[MSIS]

Well their selling point is they take on the people who would get rejected almost anywhere else for LTC.

[moonlightandmargaritas]

Originally Posted by MSIS

Well their selling point is they take on the people who would get rejected almost anywhere else for LTC.

Great, sounds like a very safe and financially sound business plan.

[Charpress]

Penn Treaty's marketing plan to allow people to apply with "5 easy questions" via telephone or in person and get an immediate binder good for 30 days was a good idea. I thought it would get people in the door for some solid comparisons, but so far there has not been any interest in the idea of simple and easy LTCI applications.

This is a complex area and people want guidance. I had someone come in the other day who wanted to know "in general terms" what LTCI would cost. I told him "About $2,000." I then asked about medical conditions. As he went through the list, I raised his price from $500 to $1,000 after each condition. I ended up at $4,500 which I knew 1) he could not afford, and 2) would be damn close to an illustration figure if he or I wanted to take the time to run an illustration. About all I did was confirm for him that he was not a candidate. From my end, I have had about equal numbers of people turned down (or rated more than I expected) as have been accepted as presented.

In my own view, if the big guys will not take someone, then maybe alternatives to LTCI should be explored. Sure, Penn Treaty will take someone turned down by Hancock, Allianz and Genworth. But will it be anywhere close to affordable?

[Mr supplemental]

You really have to wonder why a company with their history of problems would want to specialize in writing "secure risk" clients.

[bluemarlin08]

Come on, really, do you think PT will keep the rates at what they go in at? Do you want a policy your clients can"t afford anywhere else, to end up having to drop it in the future due to rate increases? i would never put a client here, IMO.

[Charpress]

Originally Posted by bluemarlin08

to end up having to drop it in the future due to rate increases?

Good point.

[Crazy Rick]

Originally Posted by bluemarlin08

Do you want a policy your clients can"t afford anywhere else, to end up having to drop it in the future due to rate increases? i would never put a client here, IMO.

What's their alternative? I'll tell you what they are. 1) Living in the mold-ridden basement of their son or daughter's house. 2) No relatives want them or they don't have any? Fourth floor of some medical facility where they will enjoy their very own foot-locker and wet pajamas all day and sharing a wide open room like One Flew over the Coo-Coo's Nest. Yes, I'm right.

Yes, PT takes the hard-to-write clients and yeah, their rates are high and yeah, they'll probably raise them in the future, but what they offer is at least something better than the alternatives above and it's not the producer's fault they didn't plan on long term illnesses or injuries when they were younger.

It kills me when older (80 yrs old), prospects baulk at the premium. $4500 a year I got this one little old lady on four different medications and that was from MetLife. And she has nothing now! "I have to discuss it with my husband". Fine, but what's your concern? Baulking! "Wow" is what I heard on the other end of the phone. Wow? What do you mean? Miss? That's good for your age? Jeeeezzzzzz.

[insuranceconceptscindy]

I like the Quick Pass for those I can't get in anywhere else, but it's a LOOOOONNNG process and I don't feel like I'm in control. They get interviewed by someone else to determine what plans they should offer. Aside from that, it's pretty painless. No check up front, they go through the process before knowing the full cost. Which is both good and bad. Sticker shock is common. But if you prepare your clients well ahead of time, it will be a slam dunk and all you have to do is collect your commission check.

[Newby]

I recently did a seminar at an assisted living facility that was VERY nice. It was like living in a luxury hotel. The day I was there they has steak and lobster for lunch (it was a special day.)

One very elderly lady was asking a lot of questions about LTC policies and Penn Treaty specifically. I told her I had never sold one but I knew they would accept some health conditions that other companies would decline.

Turned out she was living there under the benefit of her Penn Treaty policy. She had paid $575 per month for years on that policy and from what I could gather she had never been very wealthy at all. She scraped to make the premium each month and couldn't afford to do lots of things her friends were doing. But now she lives good.

Who ever sold her that policy did a good job. I don't know how long the benefit period is but while it lasts she is living well. If she would have died without ever needing assisted living, it would have been money down a hole but that's the choice she made and it turned out good for her.

Our job is to make sure they understand their choices. Let them decide if it's important to them or not. Make sure they understand the premium can increase in the future. Make sure they understand the problem if they don't take 5% compounding inflation protection.

But we can never be 100% sure what we recommend will be correct for them. We don't know how long they will live or live healthy.

All we can do is give them the options.

[Newby]

Originally Posted by bluemarlin08

Come on, really, do you think PT will keep the rates at what they go in at? Do you want a policy your clients can"t afford anywhere else, to end up having to drop it in the future due to rate increases? i would never put a client here, IMO.

Do they allow them to keep the rate the same but lower the coverage in the event of a rate increase?

Most companies do that I've worked with. I'm not sure about Penn Treaty.

[xrac]

Pa. Regulator Takes Control Of Penn Treaty Units
A state court has given Pennsylvania Insurance Commissioner Joel Ario permission to put Penn Treaty Network America Insurance Company in rehabilitation, Ario says.

National Underwriter Life & Health

[moonlightandmargaritas]

I guess my post of 8/27 has panned out.

[Never_a_dull_moment]

Check this out:

DeclinesIntoCash.com

[xrac]

Are there more problems on the horizon for other LTC companies? REGULATORS TO TAKE HARD LOOK AT LTC INSURANCE:

REGULATORS TO TAKE HARD LOOK AT LTC INSURANCE - InvestmentNews

[Never_a_dull_moment]

How can anyone, in good conscience, suggest that the managerial and actuarial incompetence of Penn Treaty and Conseco Senior Health (fka American Travelers) means that all long term care insurers are headed down the same road?

Just because Global Crossing went bankrupt does that mean that all telecommunications companies will go bankrupt?

Just because Enron cooked their books, does that mean that all energy companies are guilty of fraud?

Every industry has a company or two that are mismanaged. Does that mean that the entire industry is bad?

Gimmeabreak!!!

The main players in the LTCi industry have a sterling track record and it should be heralded.

How can any thinking person be surprised by the fate of Penn Treaty and Conseco Senior Health? High commissions, low premiums, loose underwriting, with a dash of mismanagement, leads to only one conclusion.

I remember speaking with a couple in Sarasota, back in the late 90's. They really wanted the Penn Treaty Personal Freedom policy. It had the most liberal benefit triggers in the industry, the loosest underwriting, and shockingly low premiums. I was recommending some other company, I forget which one. And, they called me back and said that they liked me more than the other agents they had spoken with and they wanted me to be their agent, but they wanted to buy the Penn Treaty Personal Freedom policy. They wanted me to sell them that policy. I told them that I wouldn't.