Scroll down for a discussion on Becoming a State Farm Agent within the Getting Started Selling Insurance.
Originally Posted by greenman
Fastrack - where's your shinebox? Legionaire has posted 4 times - his entire first post was predicated with a lie that ...
Fastrack - where's your shinebox? Legionaire has posted 4 times - his entire first post was predicated with a lie that he admitted was a lie when called on it. You go ahead and believe what you want - remember, on anonymous boards, everyone gets to be MDRT! hehehehe
I don't carry about his credentials or lack thereof.....his advice at the end of the post was very good. Ever heard of taking both the good and bad from someone? You have written off everything he says because you think he is a farse. I, on the other hand, don't care if he is a farse, because some of what he said is true and helpful and I am able to distinguish between the two. If you are so experienced, you should be able to also.
After reading through this entire thread, it's apparent that starting a career as a State Farm agent has some serious challenges.
First off, you don't own your business. It's not REALLY your business...you do not get to sell it once you wish to retire. I don't think I like that very much especially when you are being asked to put your own money into the enterprise to grow it.
Not to mention the meddling into your affairs of a big brother. There are definite advantages...the name, the resources, the potential for appointments, etc.
But these seem to be offset by the politics and, the fact that at the end of the day, you are just renting your name on the shingle. Once you retire, your work will be given to someone else or split up among a number of other SF agents.
If SF is going to see a number of their agents retire in the near future, I would guess they would be interested in recruiting high quality career changers who have business acumen. I suppose young college grads are more willing koolaid drinkers, but, statistically, their failure rate would, I think, be higher than an experienced business person.
But how many business people would go into a SF opportunity knowing their going to chew through up to $50K-$100K in their own savings to establish their practice...all the time knowing they never really own it?
While I have alot of sympathy for people like SFTICA and the fact that he should be in a better place in life at this point in his career with SF, I can't help but wonder where he, and others like him, would be if he had gone captive with a quality company like NYLife/went independent etc? Most likely, given his work ethic and success at selling insurance, he would be at much more comfortable level in life.
The SF brand is pretty darn good and they have a high caliber network of agents. The thing holding me back, personally, for being interested in pursuing them is I have no wish to hand over my personal savings to grow & "rent" an office with my name on it. How many people accept a job with a company then start writing their employer checks? Does this make sense to anyone? If I had a vested interest in owning the office & it's book, then that would be an entirely different matter.
Alot of take by State Farm and not much give.
How can they expect to recruit quality people when they take have constructed a stingy financial model for new potential agents? If they want the best people, they need to make this thing lucrative for successful agents. And right now, for new agents, it doesn't appear to be.
Hmmm, this is interesting. I do wonder how much of this is State Farm vs how much of this is getting started in the P&C world.
With health or life, new sales bring in decent checks. Residuals are lousy, but the new sales are good money (exception is group health, which is usually a flat rate new and renewal).
With P&C, new business and renewals pay almost the same. In comparison, new business is a miserable check compared to selling a health policy. Premiums are also much, much lower than health.
Over time though, if you manage expenses well, a P&C agency pretty much becomes a license to print money. The residuals start becoming the major revenue source.
Sounds like the premium dollars are there to be had with State Farm, just the required expenses are a bit overwhelming. I get that. Spending the required money to grow is sometimes hard to do. Of course, when you can control it, it's a bit easier then when you are told how to spend what.
Boards like this will play a role in causing change at SF for scratch agents. There is no doubt that many potential SF recruits who have read this forum are viewing the opportunity much, much differently and some have dropped interest all together. Imagine what a SF recruiter thinks reading this thread.
Based upon everything I have read there are only two kinds of people who will pursue the SF opportunity. First, those who have drank the SF koolaid, and take the opportunity based upon the old contracts and who do not understand the implications of the current contract. This is like buying past performance on a mutual fund when the manager and objective have changed. The other is someone who is just plain "nuts" or a glutton for punishment!
I got into the game knowing full well it was not "fair". It is when it becomes unethical when it destroys families, credit histories and career paths that people get angry.
I sit in a home with an unpaid mortgage, with a fridge full of milk and cheese because my family is on the WIC program because my household income is $19,000 after 4 years of being a "new market" SF agent. All this while I constantly qualify for travel level 2 for trips yet because I am actually a talented insurance producer I am going to Hawaii very soon.
Off topic:
I heard Allstate cancelled the top producer trip and gave its agents money in stead in light of the economy.
Too bad SF didn't think of that. That would have helped me tremendously, actually being awarded $10,000 and not just being taxed on a trip valued on that that I cannot afford to go on. I will be eating McDonalds in Waikaloa.
What a joke, SF "charges" you Wheel of Fortune prices for the "free" trip. You end up paying more in taxes for it than what it would cost you to travel by yourself with people you like.
Oh, and did you know all DAFO's travel level three with out even qualifying?
What a joke, SF "charges" you Wheel of Fortune prices for the "free" trip. You end up paying more in taxes for it than what it would cost you to travel by yourself with people you like.
While it might be hard to quantify the exact cost of the trips and thereby hard to know if what they are charging you for tax purposes is correct, I sincerely doubt that you can go on the same trip yourself for the cost that you pay in taxes. I guess it depends on your tax bracket - but most of you sound like you have low income and high expenses, so your tax bracket is not very high.
Also, I don't like paying the taxes, but that isn't a SF rule. It is an IRS guideline. Part of being an independent contractor. Seems like it always turns into something for everyone to gripe about - funny how most of you LOOK for such things. However, many times, I'd love to have the money instead.
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Originally Posted by xrac
Boards like this will play a role in causing change at SF for scratch agents. There is no doubt that many potential SF recruits who have read this forum are viewing the opportunity much, much differently and some have dropped interest all together. Imagine what a SF recruiter thinks reading this thread.
Based upon everything I have read there are only two kinds of people who will pursue the SF opportunity. First, those who have drank the SF koolaid, and take the opportunity based upon the old contracts and who do not understand the implications of the current contract. This is like buying past performance on a mutual fund when the manager and objective have changed. The other is someone who is just plain "nuts" or a glutton for punishment!
Maybe you have mentioned it somewhere else, but I'm to lazy to look for it. What do you sell and who do you sell for? Seems like you like to jump into these State Farm conversations with the standard statement of "after reading these posts, I don't know why anyone would want to pursue a State Farm agency"
This board isn't going to do squat to change the way State Farm approaches future agency opportunities. You think State Farm actually cares about what a few disgruntled TICA's and some outsider like you have to say? Give me a break. However, it is very educational for those considering becoming SF agents.
A SF agency isn't for everyone and some opportunities are crap and some are good. Lets look at both sides of the table before we act like you would be "plain nuts" to pursue the opportunity.
Last edited by fastrack1 : 04-21-2009 at 02:25 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
Also, I don't like paying the taxes, but that isn't a SF rule. It is an IRS guideline. Part of being an independent contractor.
Correct, but misleading.
I am an independent contractor, and have been on multiple producer reward trips where the insurance company has provided a cash bonus along with the trip to take care of the tax bill.
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[COLOR=blue]Don't steal - the government hates competition.[/COLOR]
I am an independent contractor, and have been on multiple producer reward trips where the insurance company has provided a cash bonus along with the trip to take care of the tax bill.
True, SF doesn't do that and it would be nice, but then you pay taxes on the cash bonus along with the taxes on the trip. Either way, if your are independent, anything they give you is taxable, whether a trip, a plaque, or a watch. Grossing up your income to cover those items can also hurt you as well, particulary if it moves you to another tax bracket.
True, SF doesn't do that and it would be nice, but then you pay taxes on the cash bonus along with the taxes on the trip. Grossing up your income to cover those items can also hurt you as well, particulary if it moves you to another tax bracket.
Right, but one thing based in reality that you've omitted is that you've got the cash.
If you're the one that was "accused" of being in management (what do you guys call them? "AFE"? Agency Field Executive?), I think they're right, that's a comment that could only come from a manager...
I've been silent, but highly entertained, on this whole thread. You guys from the Farm are so highly incestuous, it's very comical!
Let's see if we can "call-a-spade-a-spade" on the entire State Farm "opportunity".
First, to disclaim: I am not, and never have been a SF agent or manager. I HAVE worked closely with SF and have some insight as to the "inner workings".
The entire "You have to have an office so people can come down and buy (read - deal with my not very experienced support staff) auto/homeowner's insurance and they can try to ram a hospital income or overpriced term life policy up their wazoo so they can get a discount" model is seriously passe! Will anyone argue that the direct writers (GEICO and Progressive come to mind) have continued to hurt them? Think the guys in the HO don't know? Why the pressure for life insurance, etc. then?
State Farm is full of CFPs that have never sold a mutual fund, and CLU/ChFC's that couldn't sell life insurance (even after 20 years!) if their life depended on it!
State Farm (and Allstate too, to be fair) have this crazy idea that everyone that buys car insurance wants to have a "relationship" (which will lead to "financial services" production) with the agent. A lot of them just want to buy car insurance. Most of 'em have never even met the agent for crissakes!
So what do you do? Try to sell 'em seriously overpriced term life insurance? Move the "high net worth" to Phoenix (that worked out pretty good didn't it)? Health insurance? Assurant isn't even competitive in most markets. How 'bout an IRA with one of the what, three mutual funds that you offer? Or how about a HELOC that almost nobody can qualify for?
How many people, do you think, are asking their stockbroker for advice on auto insurance?
Gawd, at least Allstate has the Motor Club....
Anybody considering the State Farm "opportunity" whether it's TICA, FICA, MICA, ICA or whatever, before drinking the kool-aid, should consider that the entire business model is a dinosaur.
Right, but one thing based in reality that you've omitted is that you've got the cash.
If you're the one that was "accused" of being in management (what do you guys call them? "AFE"? Agency Field Executive?), I think they're right, that's a comment that could only come from a manager...
I've been silent, but highly entertained, on this whole thread. You guys from the Farm are so highly incestuous, it's very comical!
Let's see if we can "call-a-spade-a-spade" on the entire State Farm "opportunity".
First, to disclaim: I am not, and never have been a SF agent or manager. I HAVE worked closely with SF and have some insight as to the "inner workings".
The entire "You have to have an office so people can come down and buy (read - deal with my not very experienced support staff) auto/homeowner's insurance and they can try to ram a hospital income or overpriced term life policy up their wazoo so they can get a discount" model is seriously passe! Will anyone argue that the direct writers (GEICO and Progressive come to mind) have continued to hurt them? Think the guys in the HO don't know? Why the pressure for life insurance, etc. then?
State Farm is full of CFPs that have never sold a mutual fund, and CLU/ChFC's that couldn't sell life insurance (even after 20 years!) if their life depended on it!
State Farm (and Allstate too, to be fair) have this crazy idea that everyone that buys car insurance wants to have a "relationship" (which will lead to "financial services" production) with the agent. A lot of them just want to buy car insurance. Most of 'em have never even met the agent for crissakes!
So what do you do? Try to sell 'em seriously overpriced term life insurance? Move the "high net worth" to Phoenix (that worked out pretty good didn't it)? Health insurance? Assurant isn't even competitive in most markets. How 'bout an IRA with one of the what, three mutual funds that you offer? Or how about a HELOC that almost nobody can qualify for?
How many people, do you think, are asking their stockbroker for advice on auto insurance?
Gawd, at least Allstate has the Motor Club....
Anybody considering the State Farm "opportunity" whether it's TICA, FICA, MICA, ICA or whatever, before drinking the kool-aid, should consider that the entire business model is a dinosaur.
I agree with the fact that the system is a dinosaur. However, it has been good to me, but I'm not a TICA, so I'm not complaining.
I also am not management. I'm an agent and have stated that several times here. Its seems that if you don't badmouth SF people don't think you are an agent.
There is no way I would become an agent under the current system. Many of the points you made are correct and I recognize them and don't drink the "SF koolaid" in my office. We try to make business decisions by understanding the shortcomings of SF. There still are plenty of people out there that do want to buy based on relationships and not just on price. Thank goodness SF has the reputation and relationships that it does or I would have gone out of business a long time ago.
I'm happy with my SF career because they have been good to me. I don't work 40 hours a week and I come and go as I please. I don't care that I don't "own" the business. I knew that coming into the deal. Started this with $0 money and have fed my family well. I also own other businesses, because I don't stick all my eggs in one basket. It is more than can be said for most of my friends who are stuck in jobs they hate.
.....State Farm is full of CFPs that have never sold a mutual fund,......
Might have been the case but not now: ....."In December, State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Co. of Bloomington, Ill., ordered its 270 independent-contractor agents to relinquish their designations as certified financial planners because the Washington-based Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards Inc. imposed a fiduciary standard this year for its CFP designees......"
Hey - "way back when" - we were approached - about NASFA (National Association of State Farm Agents) - you might want to consider a silent membership in this... Believe it or not - we were approached "Way back when" about being a member... Thought they were nuts - but, they were not.. Honestly, really nice people, and - they have helped your cause. My causes w/SF are long and gone. But they are a good thorn in SF's side.
Or dont - not a big deal to me - as i enjoy the independent agent side of life now. Glad to be out of "The Farm" or as one of my clients said "Snake Farm".
It seems like a couple of you (like xrac and margarita moon man) out there are only on this site to take easy shots at State Farm. I can only imagine the psychological reasons why someone would lurk around a site in which struggling new agents share their pain . . .
It is true that State Farm is so big, and has so much influence on the insurance industry (and yet it is not a publicly-traded company) that if it has any weakness whatsoever, or drops the ball in any way, there are always dozens of people there watching to say, “Aha!” That’s a lot of pressure, but it kind of makes me feel like I am with the prettiest girl at the dance with all that attention.
For brokers out there like XRAC, and MOONLIGHT man (are you a broker MOON? I mean, do you really suit up and fight it out on the street and sell stuff? Or are you tucked away neatly in a dimly lit cube somewhere stapling forms together?) How much attention are your dates getting? (The carriers YOU write for?) Oh, she is not that significant to notice or pay attention to? Just another whore on the block perhaps?
What’s that you say? Oh, you have as many as two, three, or four carriers you can place clients with? Terrific! But it turns out that each carrier is a part of a part of a part of something owned by some other company that makes toasters.
Perhaps you were you like some of the brokers I know that for years exclaimed what a great company AIG is for their clients. Oh, that’s right, it was only a PART of the company that was really really bad. Well thank goodness it was only part, otherwise it might have caused a mess.
Don’t get me wrong. I, for one, am very grateful to have a couple established independent agents on my block. They come around about once a month and leave their cards and beg my staff for the risks State Farm doesn’t want to write. I gladly send over those turds I wouldn’t want in my book of business, let alone coming into my office.
Even better, when their good clients get the shaft on a claim, or get the “slow pay” treatment, or are told to call an 800 number for service (sometimes while they are standing in the broker’s office) my office is conveniently located and my staff and I are ready for a “relationship”.
While I might not be able to calculate the Beta of a portfolio of funds with a slide rule, or even its Treynor ratio, like many State Farm agents, I have set up dozens and dozens and dozens of clients in State Farm Mutual funds (a top fund family in Barron’s magazine for all of 2008—read the Feb 2009 edition). Most of these clients would never have taken an action step to grow wealth on their own. Sure, $50, $100, our $300 a month seems like chump change to the so-called “financial advisors” out there who won’t return anyone’s call unless they have a minimum of $250,000 to roll over. But being a financial catalyst in the lives of these clients my office has a “relationship” with continues to make a huge difference in their lives. For the first time many of them are getting their financial acts together.
Indeed, it is easy for a couple of independent brokers to launch critiques from the cheap seats on a site in which a bunch of State Farm new agents vent and share their pain—I suppose it makes you feel more significant in some way. For my part, I regret being so candid with airing what dirty laundry the company has, though I stand by my posts. I didn't realize others would take such delight in it.
But please be aware: though State Farm is not the most nimble and reactive company, it is working with the best minds available to “dial in the numbers” correctly so that it gets the best talent for agents, and the best clients for our mutual risk pool. Therefore, XRAC, and MOONLIGHT, and other brokers out there delighting in the struggles of others: we really don’t want all your clients. We don’t even want most of them. We just want the best ones, and we are working on having a "relationship" with them.
Friggin awesome post. There is no need to add anything to that. Legion is the man
Boy, you Farm boys (and girls) sure get your panties in a wad quick!
I figured we would get an objective view from inside the inner sanctum....
Sure, I'll be happy to.
But since you laid down the challenge, it's not unreasonable to expect you to go first.
Who are you?
I thought that this was a free forum where anyone could chime in on any subject. I have been attracted to this thread because I have learned new information about SF that I didn't know before. I continue to read it because it seems that there are still potential SF agents who don't get the change that has occurred in the contract.
As far as who I am I describe myself as a wannabe, successful in other business, but only marginally active in insurance. At one time I believed that SF was the best game in town. With a very good friend who was a big wig in the local region SF office I had even entertained the thought of pursuing a candidacy with SF hence my interest in this thread. I have been shocked at what I have read and learned. I have became convinced that under the current contract for an agent to start scratch is a bad move. It appears a lot of people still think that SF is the best thing going and do not realize how onerous the new contract is until they have already went too far down the road to turn back.
It is not true that I enjoy the pain. It is actually disappointing to find such drastic change at such a respected company and to find SF actually building business at the expense of their agents. If that continues it will eventually be to their detriment. This thread is actually a valuable service to anyone considering joining SF.
I thought that this was a free forum where anyone could chime in on any subject. I have been attracted to this thread because I have learned new information about SF that I didn't know before. I continue to read it because it seems that there are still potential SF agents who don't get the change that has occurred in the contract.
As far as who I am I describe myself as a wannabe, successful in other business, but only marginally active in insurance. At one time I believed that SF was the best game in town. With a very good friend who was a big wig in the local region SF office I had even entertained the thought of pursuing a candidacy with SF hence my interest in this thread. I have been shocked at what I have read and learned. I have became convinced that under the current contract for an agent to start scratch is a bad move. It appears a lot of people still think that SF is the best thing going and do not realize how onerous the new contract is until they have already went too far down the road to turn back.
It is not true that I enjoy the pain. It is actually disappointing to find such drastic change at such a respected company and to find SF actually building business at the expense of their agents. If that continues it will eventually be to their detriment. This thread is actually a valuable service to anyone considering joining SF.
Unfortunately your response is simply based upon a perception you have after reading one side of the story posted by a very small percentage of the new SF agents. I'm not discounting their stories or saying they aren't true, but still, it is only one side of the story.
SF is not building their business at the expense of the agent. The agent is what got SF where they are and I truly believe they know that. Sure, they are making mistakes, but what organization (or individual) doesn't. I have seen them make plenty of changes to offset the mistakes they have made.
The SF opportunity is still a real and viable opportunity. Scratch - well maybe not, but that doesn't mean that SF is out to screw the agent for their betterment.
The reason that we don't appreciate your opinion is that you don't know what you are talking about. Less than 1% of the forums on here have anything to do with SF, but you choose to comment on them. Surely there are other threads that you are more knowledgeable about where you can make an actual contribution. I certainly appreciate your honesty about how active involved you are in the insurance business. On this forum, you can make up anything and you chose not to, so I respect you for that.
As I have state my opinion is based upon what I have read in this thread and is my understanding of that information. I have never professed to know anything from personal experience with SF.
However, I think I am pretty good at reading and understanding what others are saying. Maybe it is the opinion of neophytes, whiners, cry babies, and those with an axe to grind that I am hearing. You are in a better position to judge that. Right or wrong what I have posted sums up what I understand. Even you hedge on the opportunity if one is going scratch.
For brokers out there like XRAC, and MOONLIGHT man (are you a broker MOON? I mean, do you really suit up and fight it out on the street and sell stuff? Or are you tucked away neatly in a dimly lit cube somewhere stapling forms together?) How much attention are your dates getting? (The carriers YOU write for?) Oh, she is not that significant to notice or pay attention to? Just another whore on the block perhaps?
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Don’t get me wrong. I, for one, am very grateful to have a couple established independent agents on my block. They come around about once a month and leave their cards and beg my staff for the risks State Farm doesn’t want to write. I gladly send over those turds I wouldn’t want in my book of business, let alone coming into my office.
Even better, when their good clients get the shaft on a claim, or get the “slow pay” treatment, or are told to call an 800 number for service (sometimes while they are standing in the broker’s office) my office is conveniently located and my staff and I are ready for a “relationship”.
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Indeed, it is easy for a couple of independent brokers to launch critiques from the cheap seats on a site in which a bunch of State Farm new agents vent and share their pain—I suppose it makes you feel more significant in some way. For my part, I regret being so candid with airing what dirty laundry the company has, though I stand by my posts. I didn't realize others would take such delight in it.
But please be aware: though State Farm is not the most nimble and reactive company, it is working with the best minds available to “dial in the numbers” correctly so that it gets the best talent for agents, and the best clients for our mutual risk pool. Therefore, XRAC, and MOONLIGHT, and other brokers out there delighting in the struggles of others: we really don’t want all your clients. We don’t even want most of them. We just want the best ones, and we are working on having a "relationship" with them.
I think the collective impression of you...that you are a State Farm field employee, and not an agent, is probably accurate. Doesn't really matter. Just an observation based on the persona you choose to portray, the Darth Vader avatar and tone/choice of words that smacks of power trip. Your initial posts and subsequent posts really don't match up.
But I digress. Before this particular post, your previous utterings were fairly well crafted. Your ability to wordsmith and, actually write, is apparent. You have a flair with visual impression (a la throwing your name in the air like confetti, et al) and you have offered sound advice that is applicable for anyone who owns a business, not just a SF insurance agency.
Successful business people do not discuss their income. They do not discuss the success of their business by disparaging others. Most successful business people realize how precious every dollar is and respect any independent business person. Most successful business people do not judge a person's income by their appearances. I know millionaires who dress drown...some on purpose. They show up to jewelry stores to buy a present for their wives intentionally looking like they crawled out from under a car because they get a kick out of seeing how people treat them. A lucky day for the smart salesperson who ignores their appearance and focuses on the person.
I'm not saying you are this way....but I know of many people who drive Cadillacs/Beamers, dress well, live in a nice house and have bill collectors chasing them They have a bullfrog mouth writing checks their tadpole ass can't cash. The biggest blowhards typically are the ones with FICO scores of about 431.
Again, not saying this is you....but judging by the amount of time you spend wordsmithing and the volume of each of your posts...you wish to portray an image that, from the limited number of them, seem a bit contradictory.
Lastly, someone crosscheck Caliban's IP address against the IP address of other people that are posting in this thread.
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My apologies for the derail.
Re: Becoming a State Farm Agent
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