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Originally Posted by moonlightandmargaritas
Correct, but misleading.
I am an independent contractor, and have been on multiple producer reward trips where the insurance company has ...
I am an independent contractor, and have been on multiple producer reward trips where the insurance company has provided a cash bonus along with the trip to take care of the tax bill.
True, SF doesn't do that and it would be nice, but then you pay taxes on the cash bonus along with the taxes on the trip. Either way, if your are independent, anything they give you is taxable, whether a trip, a plaque, or a watch. Grossing up your income to cover those items can also hurt you as well, particulary if it moves you to another tax bracket.
True, SF doesn't do that and it would be nice, but then you pay taxes on the cash bonus along with the taxes on the trip. Grossing up your income to cover those items can also hurt you as well, particulary if it moves you to another tax bracket.
Right, but one thing based in reality that you've omitted is that you've got the cash.
If you're the one that was "accused" of being in management (what do you guys call them? "AFE"? Agency Field Executive?), I think they're right, that's a comment that could only come from a manager...
I've been silent, but highly entertained, on this whole thread. You guys from the Farm are so highly incestuous, it's very comical!
Let's see if we can "call-a-spade-a-spade" on the entire State Farm "opportunity".
First, to disclaim: I am not, and never have been a SF agent or manager. I HAVE worked closely with SF and have some insight as to the "inner workings".
The entire "You have to have an office so people can come down and buy (read - deal with my not very experienced support staff) auto/homeowner's insurance and they can try to ram a hospital income or overpriced term life policy up their wazoo so they can get a discount" model is seriously passe! Will anyone argue that the direct writers (GEICO and Progressive come to mind) have continued to hurt them? Think the guys in the HO don't know? Why the pressure for life insurance, etc. then?
State Farm is full of CFPs that have never sold a mutual fund, and CLU/ChFC's that couldn't sell life insurance (even after 20 years!) if their life depended on it!
State Farm (and Allstate too, to be fair) have this crazy idea that everyone that buys car insurance wants to have a "relationship" (which will lead to "financial services" production) with the agent. A lot of them just want to buy car insurance. Most of 'em have never even met the agent for crissakes!
So what do you do? Try to sell 'em seriously overpriced term life insurance? Move the "high net worth" to Phoenix (that worked out pretty good didn't it)? Health insurance? Assurant isn't even competitive in most markets. How 'bout an IRA with one of the what, three mutual funds that you offer? Or how about a HELOC that almost nobody can qualify for?
How many people, do you think, are asking their stockbroker for advice on auto insurance?
Gawd, at least Allstate has the Motor Club....
Anybody considering the State Farm "opportunity" whether it's TICA, FICA, MICA, ICA or whatever, before drinking the kool-aid, should consider that the entire business model is a dinosaur.
------------------------------------ Don't steal - the government hates competition.
Right, but one thing based in reality that you've omitted is that you've got the cash.
If you're the one that was "accused" of being in management (what do you guys call them? "AFE"? Agency Field Executive?), I think they're right, that's a comment that could only come from a manager...
I've been silent, but highly entertained, on this whole thread. You guys from the Farm are so highly incestuous, it's very comical!
Let's see if we can "call-a-spade-a-spade" on the entire State Farm "opportunity".
First, to disclaim: I am not, and never have been a SF agent or manager. I HAVE worked closely with SF and have some insight as to the "inner workings".
The entire "You have to have an office so people can come down and buy (read - deal with my not very experienced support staff) auto/homeowner's insurance and they can try to ram a hospital income or overpriced term life policy up their wazoo so they can get a discount" model is seriously passe! Will anyone argue that the direct writers (GEICO and Progressive come to mind) have continued to hurt them? Think the guys in the HO don't know? Why the pressure for life insurance, etc. then?
State Farm is full of CFPs that have never sold a mutual fund, and CLU/ChFC's that couldn't sell life insurance (even after 20 years!) if their life depended on it!
State Farm (and Allstate too, to be fair) have this crazy idea that everyone that buys car insurance wants to have a "relationship" (which will lead to "financial services" production) with the agent. A lot of them just want to buy car insurance. Most of 'em have never even met the agent for crissakes!
So what do you do? Try to sell 'em seriously overpriced term life insurance? Move the "high net worth" to Phoenix (that worked out pretty good didn't it)? Health insurance? Assurant isn't even competitive in most markets. How 'bout an IRA with one of the what, three mutual funds that you offer? Or how about a HELOC that almost nobody can qualify for?
How many people, do you think, are asking their stockbroker for advice on auto insurance?
Gawd, at least Allstate has the Motor Club....
Anybody considering the State Farm "opportunity" whether it's TICA, FICA, MICA, ICA or whatever, before drinking the kool-aid, should consider that the entire business model is a dinosaur.
I agree with the fact that the system is a dinosaur. However, it has been good to me, but I'm not a TICA, so I'm not complaining.
I also am not management. I'm an agent and have stated that several times here. Its seems that if you don't badmouth SF people don't think you are an agent.
There is no way I would become an agent under the current system. Many of the points you made are correct and I recognize them and don't drink the "SF koolaid" in my office. We try to make business decisions by understanding the shortcomings of SF. There still are plenty of people out there that do want to buy based on relationships and not just on price. Thank goodness SF has the reputation and relationships that it does or I would have gone out of business a long time ago.
I'm happy with my SF career because they have been good to me. I don't work 40 hours a week and I come and go as I please. I don't care that I don't "own" the business. I knew that coming into the deal. Started this with $0 money and have fed my family well. I also own other businesses, because I don't stick all my eggs in one basket. It is more than can be said for most of my friends who are stuck in jobs they hate.
.....State Farm is full of CFPs that have never sold a mutual fund,......
Might have been the case but not now: ....."In December, State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Co. of Bloomington, Ill., ordered its 270 independent-contractor agents to relinquish their designations as certified financial planners because the Washington-based Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards Inc. imposed a fiduciary standard this year for its CFP designees......"
Hey - "way back when" - we were approached - about NASFA (National Association of State Farm Agents) - you might want to consider a silent membership in this... Believe it or not - we were approached "Way back when" about being a member... Thought they were nuts - but, they were not.. Honestly, really nice people, and - they have helped your cause. My causes w/SF are long and gone. But they are a good thorn in SF's side.
Or dont - not a big deal to me - as i enjoy the independent agent side of life now. Glad to be out of "The Farm" or as one of my clients said "Snake Farm".
It seems like a couple of you (like xrac and margarita moon man) out there are only on this site to take easy shots at State Farm. I can only imagine the psychological reasons why someone would lurk around a site in which struggling new agents share their pain . . .
It is true that State Farm is so big, and has so much influence on the insurance industry (and yet it is not a publicly-traded company) that if it has any weakness whatsoever, or drops the ball in any way, there are always dozens of people there watching to say, “Aha!” That’s a lot of pressure, but it kind of makes me feel like I am with the prettiest girl at the dance with all that attention.
For brokers out there like XRAC, and MOONLIGHT man (are you a broker MOON? I mean, do you really suit up and fight it out on the street and sell stuff? Or are you tucked away neatly in a dimly lit cube somewhere stapling forms together?) How much attention are your dates getting? (The carriers YOU write for?) Oh, she is not that significant to notice or pay attention to? Just another whore on the block perhaps?
What’s that you say? Oh, you have as many as two, three, or four carriers you can place clients with? Terrific! But it turns out that each carrier is a part of a part of a part of something owned by some other company that makes toasters.
Perhaps you were you like some of the brokers I know that for years exclaimed what a great company AIG is for their clients. Oh, that’s right, it was only a PART of the company that was really really bad. Well thank goodness it was only part, otherwise it might have caused a mess.
Don’t get me wrong. I, for one, am very grateful to have a couple established independent agents on my block. They come around about once a month and leave their cards and beg my staff for the risks State Farm doesn’t want to write. I gladly send over those turds I wouldn’t want in my book of business, let alone coming into my office.
Even better, when their good clients get the shaft on a claim, or get the “slow pay” treatment, or are told to call an 800 number for service (sometimes while they are standing in the broker’s office) my office is conveniently located and my staff and I are ready for a “relationship”.
While I might not be able to calculate the Beta of a portfolio of funds with a slide rule, or even its Treynor ratio, like many State Farm agents, I have set up dozens and dozens and dozens of clients in State Farm Mutual funds (a top fund family in Barron’s magazine for all of 2008—read the Feb 2009 edition). Most of these clients would never have taken an action step to grow wealth on their own. Sure, $50, $100, our $300 a month seems like chump change to the so-called “financial advisors” out there who won’t return anyone’s call unless they have a minimum of $250,000 to roll over. But being a financial catalyst in the lives of these clients my office has a “relationship” with continues to make a huge difference in their lives. For the first time many of them are getting their financial acts together.
Indeed, it is easy for a couple of independent brokers to launch critiques from the cheap seats on a site in which a bunch of State Farm new agents vent and share their pain—I suppose it makes you feel more significant in some way. For my part, I regret being so candid with airing what dirty laundry the company has, though I stand by my posts. I didn't realize others would take such delight in it.
But please be aware: though State Farm is not the most nimble and reactive company, it is working with the best minds available to “dial in the numbers” correctly so that it gets the best talent for agents, and the best clients for our mutual risk pool. Therefore, XRAC, and MOONLIGHT, and other brokers out there delighting in the struggles of others: we really don’t want all your clients. We don’t even want most of them. We just want the best ones, and we are working on having a "relationship" with them.
Friggin awesome post. There is no need to add anything to that. Legion is the man
Boy, you Farm boys (and girls) sure get your panties in a wad quick!
I figured we would get an objective view from inside the inner sanctum....
Sure, I'll be happy to.
But since you laid down the challenge, it's not unreasonable to expect you to go first.
Who are you?
I thought that this was a free forum where anyone could chime in on any subject. I have been attracted to this thread because I have learned new information about SF that I didn't know before. I continue to read it because it seems that there are still potential SF agents who don't get the change that has occurred in the contract.
As far as who I am I describe myself as a wannabe, successful in other business, but only marginally active in insurance. At one time I believed that SF was the best game in town. With a very good friend who was a big wig in the local region SF office I had even entertained the thought of pursuing a candidacy with SF hence my interest in this thread. I have been shocked at what I have read and learned. I have became convinced that under the current contract for an agent to start scratch is a bad move. It appears a lot of people still think that SF is the best thing going and do not realize how onerous the new contract is until they have already went too far down the road to turn back.
It is not true that I enjoy the pain. It is actually disappointing to find such drastic change at such a respected company and to find SF actually building business at the expense of their agents. If that continues it will eventually be to their detriment. This thread is actually a valuable service to anyone considering joining SF.
I thought that this was a free forum where anyone could chime in on any subject. I have been attracted to this thread because I have learned new information about SF that I didn't know before. I continue to read it because it seems that there are still potential SF agents who don't get the change that has occurred in the contract.
As far as who I am I describe myself as a wannabe, successful in other business, but only marginally active in insurance. At one time I believed that SF was the best game in town. With a very good friend who was a big wig in the local region SF office I had even entertained the thought of pursuing a candidacy with SF hence my interest in this thread. I have been shocked at what I have read and learned. I have became convinced that under the current contract for an agent to start scratch is a bad move. It appears a lot of people still think that SF is the best thing going and do not realize how onerous the new contract is until they have already went too far down the road to turn back.
It is not true that I enjoy the pain. It is actually disappointing to find such drastic change at such a respected company and to find SF actually building business at the expense of their agents. If that continues it will eventually be to their detriment. This thread is actually a valuable service to anyone considering joining SF.
Unfortunately your response is simply based upon a perception you have after reading one side of the story posted by a very small percentage of the new SF agents. I'm not discounting their stories or saying they aren't true, but still, it is only one side of the story.
SF is not building their business at the expense of the agent. The agent is what got SF where they are and I truly believe they know that. Sure, they are making mistakes, but what organization (or individual) doesn't. I have seen them make plenty of changes to offset the mistakes they have made.
The SF opportunity is still a real and viable opportunity. Scratch - well maybe not, but that doesn't mean that SF is out to screw the agent for their betterment.
The reason that we don't appreciate your opinion is that you don't know what you are talking about. Less than 1% of the forums on here have anything to do with SF, but you choose to comment on them. Surely there are other threads that you are more knowledgeable about where you can make an actual contribution. I certainly appreciate your honesty about how active involved you are in the insurance business. On this forum, you can make up anything and you chose not to, so I respect you for that.
As I have state my opinion is based upon what I have read in this thread and is my understanding of that information. I have never professed to know anything from personal experience with SF.
However, I think I am pretty good at reading and understanding what others are saying. Maybe it is the opinion of neophytes, whiners, cry babies, and those with an axe to grind that I am hearing. You are in a better position to judge that. Right or wrong what I have posted sums up what I understand. Even you hedge on the opportunity if one is going scratch.
For brokers out there like XRAC, and MOONLIGHT man (are you a broker MOON? I mean, do you really suit up and fight it out on the street and sell stuff? Or are you tucked away neatly in a dimly lit cube somewhere stapling forms together?) How much attention are your dates getting? (The carriers YOU write for?) Oh, she is not that significant to notice or pay attention to? Just another whore on the block perhaps?
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Don’t get me wrong. I, for one, am very grateful to have a couple established independent agents on my block. They come around about once a month and leave their cards and beg my staff for the risks State Farm doesn’t want to write. I gladly send over those turds I wouldn’t want in my book of business, let alone coming into my office.
Even better, when their good clients get the shaft on a claim, or get the “slow pay” treatment, or are told to call an 800 number for service (sometimes while they are standing in the broker’s office) my office is conveniently located and my staff and I are ready for a “relationship”.
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Indeed, it is easy for a couple of independent brokers to launch critiques from the cheap seats on a site in which a bunch of State Farm new agents vent and share their pain—I suppose it makes you feel more significant in some way. For my part, I regret being so candid with airing what dirty laundry the company has, though I stand by my posts. I didn't realize others would take such delight in it.
But please be aware: though State Farm is not the most nimble and reactive company, it is working with the best minds available to “dial in the numbers” correctly so that it gets the best talent for agents, and the best clients for our mutual risk pool. Therefore, XRAC, and MOONLIGHT, and other brokers out there delighting in the struggles of others: we really don’t want all your clients. We don’t even want most of them. We just want the best ones, and we are working on having a "relationship" with them.
I think the collective impression of you...that you are a State Farm field employee, and not an agent, is probably accurate. Doesn't really matter. Just an observation based on the persona you choose to portray, the Darth Vader avatar and tone/choice of words that smacks of power trip. Your initial posts and subsequent posts really don't match up.
But I digress. Before this particular post, your previous utterings were fairly well crafted. Your ability to wordsmith and, actually write, is apparent. You have a flair with visual impression (a la throwing your name in the air like confetti, et al) and you have offered sound advice that is applicable for anyone who owns a business, not just a SF insurance agency.
Successful business people do not discuss their income. They do not discuss the success of their business by disparaging others. Most successful business people realize how precious every dollar is and respect any independent business person. Most successful business people do not judge a person's income by their appearances. I know millionaires who dress drown...some on purpose. They show up to jewelry stores to buy a present for their wives intentionally looking like they crawled out from under a car because they get a kick out of seeing how people treat them. A lucky day for the smart salesperson who ignores their appearance and focuses on the person.
I'm not saying you are this way....but I know of many people who drive Cadillacs/Beamers, dress well, live in a nice house and have bill collectors chasing them They have a bullfrog mouth writing checks their tadpole ass can't cash. The biggest blowhards typically are the ones with FICO scores of about 431.
Again, not saying this is you....but judging by the amount of time you spend wordsmithing and the volume of each of your posts...you wish to portray an image that, from the limited number of them, seem a bit contradictory.
Lastly, someone crosscheck Caliban's IP address against the IP address of other people that are posting in this thread.
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My apologies for the derail.
MOONLIGHT man (are you a broker MOON? I mean, do you really suit up and fight it out on the street and sell stuff? Or are you tucked away neatly in a dimly lit cube somewhere stapling forms together?)
Eighteen years of industry experience as an agent, manager, wholesaler and sales executive encompassing personal lines life/health, property/casualty and securities.
Over the last five years, I have built my own health insurance book of roughly 550 clients from scratch.
So to answer your question, yeah, I suit up and fight it out on the street and sell stuff.
I feel like today I made great progress in terms of making contacts in the area that I am interested in. I owe alot of my due diligence and understand of the pro's and con's to this thread. I know when I do the career understanding there will be alot of hype what I could possibly make. I consider myself to be a go getter and a winner A type personality so I know it will hype me up but i'll have this thread in the back of my head to keep my head grounded.
Legion,Caliban and a couple of other guys if any of you are interested in giving my autobiography a quick one over send me a PM and I'll copy-n-paste it, see if it has all the right kool-aide.
Thanks to all of you for the informative & sometimes satirical post regarding State Farm. I finished the recruiting process & just became an "Approved Candidate" last week. I've learned a lot from the forum & I wish I had found it before the interview process as I have many new questions that I would have liked to asked the powers that be.
Now that I'm able to view the opportunities that are open, what does an "Additional Intern" mean? Does taking an AI position lock you into that market or is it temporary? If an agent that is leaving the business & his B.O.B. is so large they have to split it, would that involve an AI? Thanks in advance & good luck to you all.
Hey Caliban nice tip, my autobiogrophy is working out its way to be that way. I googled professional autobiographies and how to make them and they all universally agree that it should be written in the third person. I'm not sure if I should do it this way or not. I'm rather inclining myself to NOT doing it this way because it almost seems that this professional autobiography might be for someone that is a book writer or a doctor and not a first step process for someone looking to open up an SF business.
Dazed and confucious as for Additional Intern, my understanding is that you go through the process just like everyone else but instead of posting for an assignment of choice you begin immediately the intern process at an agent's office in the market that you will be in and the first posting to open up whether it be scratch or whether it be a short notice retiring agent that is where you go. I think legion describes it rather accurately in a few posts above and all my knowledge of the additional intern position that I'm posting right now is based off what I inferred from his post of the AI.
I'm trying to stay away from that if possible as I'd rather not go the scratch way.
This might be the new pitch of the company for new recruits. Dazed is this what they want you to do? is the Additional Intern position a posting that you apply for just like another posting?
The AI opportunity or obtaining an existing agency is the way that I am leaning. I have only had the password to log on to the "opportunities page" for 8 days now. I'm trying to be patient just to see if there are any openings closer to my home town. My background is in the residential construction & development business & I don't mind busting my ass for a living, but I want to make some money. The past 2 years have been horrible in the housing market & I am land rich & I don't owe the bank any money, although I have yet to see a grocery store take dirt or rocks as payment. I've been living off of my savings for a while now & had hoped that the State Farm gig would help me get back into the saddle again. I LIVE & LIKE TO WORK!!!!! I do it for the $$$$$$..... I hope the TICA contract gets an overhaul before I make a decision, because I'm going to have a hard time putting 110% into it while in the back of my mind I know I'm getting screwed. Thanks again for the response & good luck in your venture to Texas.
Re: Becoming a State Farm Agent
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