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Originally Posted by infoe
I like many others have everything riding on this. I'm moving states and leaving friends family fiance behind for now to ...
I like many others have everything riding on this. I'm moving states and leaving friends family fiance behind for now to make this opportunity work. I'm sure there have been people with even better chips stacked in their favor before me and have not succeeded for many reasons (dafo,money,scratch) but thanks to this board I've been blessed to fall into a nice dafo, good size book of business, and understanding of what its going to take to secure my contract. After that its do whatever it takes to run it like a real business.
Infoe,
Just wondering, how were you able to get a nice size book of business (and in ballpark terms without giving numbers out that would identify you can you let us know what you consider a good size book of business). Were you able to negotiate for that or did you just kind of luck into it? And, did you take a traditional spot or did you go AI? Please share a little of your sagedom there with some of us that may be in your shoes soon.
Define doing good? I know new Agents in my zone who were in the Top 100 which is good according to the DAFO. Guess what – they were not making a dime. All the money goes into buying more business, which is not the way to build a quality book (retention & quality).
I know another new Agent who writes 1,200 apps per year and is not making a dime. He has high school kids that set appointments for him in the evening. He pays them minimum wage for doing this phone work and they are making more than him.
In my area, the rates are not competitive. My old Field Development Agent told me yesterday that his lapse/can is 33% on Autos. The HO rates are so high that it is impacting his Autos. He has been an Agent for over six years and qualified for travel last year. Last Spring, while on the trip, he and his wife were in Hawaii and could not afford to buy food. They went to the grocery store. He is over $100,000 in debt thanks to State Farm and is considering bankruptcy. The AFO loves him because he traveled. Define doing good?
Go to the National Association of State Farm Agents (NASFA) website and read the TICA forum
Better yet, ask Leadership who the top new Agents are in your area and go meet with them. They will tell you what a great company it is and how much they enjoy being an Agent. Before you leave, ask them how much money they are making?
Definition of Good = MAKING GOOD MONEY
PS. I don't think any TICA's that have made it are on the NASFA website.
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Originally Posted by Nazz Utopia
Last Spring, while on the trip, he and his wife were in Hawaii and could not afford to buy food. They went to the grocery store. He is over $100,000 in debt thanks to State Farm and is considering bankruptcy.
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Originally Posted by infoe
If I were a betting man...I wouldn't bet against my success. See you guys in Austria.
Did you mean, "See you at the grocery store in Austria?"
Last edited by fastrack1 : 10-19-2009 at 11:11 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
I've already qualified for Austria so you are wrong infoe. There are new Agents who sign their deals and post on this website. I qualified for Travel in eight months this year. Nothing personal, but if you have not started yet I seriously doubt you will make travel in 2009. A bit of advice: Don't tell the DAFO that - oh wait - you said you are in the nice DAFO. Another piece of advice, there is no such thing as a nice DAFO. They are EVIL and you best beware of that! Good Luck
I know of a TICA who writes 1,200 apps a year. He has high school kids that work for him in the evenings setting appointments on the phone. He pays them minimum wage and they are making more money than him.
If this is true,and his persistency is decent, State Farm should be ashamed. I'm amazed that more aren't moving to IA status...or maybe they're too broke
Well I am still here and I am a 04/05 Agent and I am sometimes on the NASFA site. What I will still say is this new contract is ruining lives and causing bankruptcies. Who knows what the company is going to do. I know a lot of agents that started when I did or close to it are gone now. You had to stop borrowing money and cut back to survive. The AFO answer to help Us is the same everywhere they have their wordtrack down. They simply say "sell more" I qualified for travel again and again I am not going, don't want to be hit with those taxes. I can purchase my own trip for what it costs me in taxes. These trips in no way cost 5 figures in the open market. I don't want to associate myself with management that doesn't care about me anyway.
I haven't read a lot of the posts since I have not been on this board but Nazz is 100% correct if you are considering this so called oportunity then you must talk to 10 agents that are under current contract and at least 5 that were hired in 2004 and 2005.
Well I am still here and I am a 04/05 Agent and I am sometimes on the NASFA site. What I will still say is this new contract is ruining lives and causing bankruptcies. Who knows what the company is going to do. I know a lot of agents that started when I did or close to it are gone now. You had to stop borrowing money and cut back to survive. The AFO answer to help Us is the same everywhere they have their wordtrack down. They simply say "sell more" I qualified for travel again and again I am not going, don't want to be hit with those taxes. I can purchase my own trip for what it costs me in taxes. These trips in no way cost 5 figures in the open market. I don't want to associate myself with management that doesn't care about me anyway.
I haven't read a lot of the posts since I have not been on this board but Nazz is 100% correct if you are considering this so called oportunity then you must talk to 10 agents that are under current contract and at least 5 that were hired in 2004 and 2005.
How can you purchase your own trip for the same as what it costs you in taxes? That is nonsense unless you are in a 35% tax bracket, which I doubt, if you are broke and making as little money as you claim. The trip costs whatever your EFFECTIVE TAX RATE is. I'm sure you have many deductions, etc from your personal taxes. I was able to get my Effective Tax Rate down to 3.5% in 2008. 6.3% in 2007. So the trip I went on this year cost me an additional $252 in taxes. I guarantee you can't go to Disney World for 5 days in the best accomodations for $250 (or Austria).
Also, I've been on multiple travel trips and I NEVER hang out with management. In most cases, management doesn't care about you, so realize it and play the system however you need to and hang with people that do care about you. I do my own thing with my family or friends and have a great time. The trips are exceptional and beyond what most people would spend money on themselves.
I realize that every TICA on here has been screwed, but I must say that the several that I know in my area (I know them relatively well) are all doing fine. None present the doom and gloom reflected here, unless they just hid it really well. I have yet to physically met a TICA that describes what the TICA's here describe. I'm not discounting it, just making an observation. Maybe the key it to just be very careful with where and how you start your agency.
Fastrack, good piece of advise and what i was trying to resonate earlier. I find it hard to believe that EVERY TICA under the SF 04/05 contract is failing or is going to fail or has not gotten out of the sink hole.
We all agree the new contract sucks, no need to argue it. We all know its not as easy as the older agents had it before.
So let's throw out a number lets say since 04/05 Tica's that either did not get their contract,quit, or were too deep in debt to keep going, represent ohhh who knows. 70%-80%?....Cause it sure as hell can't be 100%
There are 04/05 Agents making it. I know some also. Could it be the market/area that I am in that is experiencing this growth/hispanic market/favorable SF views? Possibly.
How does a state farm agency compare to an Aflac job...it seems all insurance is moving to the independent agent/sold as run " your own business" model but each one presents it's own set of challenges..mkt saturation / agent saturation / requirements set by the companies (office, staff, laptop, sales goals) and the support structures.-(cash, training license) provided by the companies. The common thread is they still want control..is the best way forward in insurance "indy" or do you need the name recognition of State Farm, and others to succeed? am working toward structured interview
Last edited by mamw1 : 10-29-2009 at 12:32 PM.
Reason: add
how does a state farm agency compare to an Aflac job...
There is absolutely no comparison. I am not too familiar with the inner workings of State Farm, but I can safely say they are night and day. Despite all its flaws State Farm appears to make a substantial investment in its new agents. Aflac appears to just pay for your appointment fee.
Also, I would say State Farm agents are generally knowledgeable about their core products, P&C. Most Aflac agents appear to have absolutely no knowledge of their products or when to use them.
You can argue all day about whether independent or captive/career is the better route. One major difference is that the good career shops heavily reward and incentivize the managers to teach and mold new agents. Unfortunately, not all career shops do that, nor do all the managers understand that training is their real role. That said, it is hard to find an independent agency or GA that will take on new agents and teach and train. Its even harder to find one that will make any real investment in new agents. They simply do not have the deep pockets to take the risk.
Fastrack, good piece of advise and what i was trying to resonate earlier. I find it hard to believe that EVERY TICA under the SF 04/05 contract is failing or is going to fail or has not gotten out of the sink hole.
We all agree the new contract sucks, no need to argue it. We all know its not as easy as the older agents had it before.
So let's throw out a number lets say since 04/05 Tica's that either did not get their contract,quit, or were too deep in debt to keep going, represent ohhh who knows. 70%-80%?....Cause it sure as hell can't be 100%
I think the AA05's that are making it are in major cities - urban areas. I also think some have done alright with larger assignments. I think the difference in success is location and assignment. When recruited by SF, the success rate was quoted at 95% where still with SF after 5 years. Now I would bet its 35%. Out of my class of 13, that stated, we have 3 remaining. Doesn't give you a sense of success.
There are 04/05 Agents making it. I know some also. Could it be the market/area that I am in that is experiencing this growth/hispanic market/favorable SF views? Possibly.
I think the AA05's that are making it are in major cities - urban areas. I also think some have done all right with larger assignments. I think the difference in success is location and assignment. When recruited by SF, the success rate was quoted at 95% were still with SF after 5 years. Now I would bet its 35% nationally. Out of my class of 13, that started agencies, we have 3 remaining. Doesn't give you a sense of success.
how does a state farm agency compare to an Aflac job...it seems all insurance is moving to the independent agent/sold as run " your own business" model but each one presents it's own set of challenges..mkt saturation / agent saturation / requirements set by the companies (office, staff, laptop, sales goals) and the support structures.-(cash, training license) provided by the companies. The common thread is they still want control..is the best way forward in insurance "indy" or do you need the name recognition of State Farm, and others to succeed? am working toward structured interview
That's like comparing a Mercedes to a Hyundai......and where do you find that all insurance is moving to the independent agent? I think that is a misstatement as well. Each has it's place. But selling Aflac out of the trunk of your car is very different than running a successful SF agency.
My three year anniversary is just around the corner. I am a third generation State Farm Agent and had always believed in the agency opportunity. I felt previledged to even become a State Farm Agent and I when I reached the top 40 new agents in the company as a new agent on the blended contract I acutally shed a tear of joy and accomplishment.
I was praised by leadership Level 3 travel and every other promotion you could qualify for I did. I believed in State Farm so much that if I accomplished or exceeded thier expectations I would do well financially. I even believed this after I started with a book of business 300 autos less than promised and illustrations stating my average auto premium was 600 when it really is only 490.
I can remember during the interview process when we had to present to the group of candidates our business plan. The AFE on the panel said "everything looks great but don't you think your expenses are a little high? I don't have any agents with expenses nearly this high. You need to adjust these numbers." I was estimating 12k a month in expenses before I was hit with the black whole of debt, furniture, office build out, and all the other little expenses they so easily make you tack on to your compensation. I still don't make enough money to pay all the bills. Can you imagine after 2 years in the business only getting net checks of about $4k every two weeks how easily we can get into financial trouble.
Now I know everyone has a solution for every situation which caused failure. However, everyone of us is faced with different situations which forces us to make financial decisions and commitments to get our contracts. No agency is alike and every agent has a different set of personal responsibilities and financial obligations. Unfortunately regardless of our personal and business decisions none of the new agents are in the situations promised.
This is going to have a negative effect on the publics view of our agency force and our company as a whole. As new agents are forced to cut, cut, cut, expenses they are becoming basically ESP offices. Poor morale(=poor service),no advertising, no staff, no giveaways, no referral programs, high lapse canc, and poor production if not negative production ratios. How is an agency supposed to sell financial services when the agent is taking payments and answering the phone all day. The company believes the new variable contract is a fix for no production and to enhance financial services production but boy have they got it all wrong. I bet most new agents would rather let an agency rot at 8% comp and get a second job than give up the book. Good bye auto policies and all the other fancy products we can sell.
I read an article the other day that Allstate is going to start cutting its agency force in half and eliminating all of the smaller agents with less than $2,000,000 in annual premium. They believe the average agent should have about $4,000,000 in premium to provide the type of service thier clients deserve. Why? The smaller agencies truly provide less than adequate service.
Have you noticed all of the most successful SF agencies are big with lots of staff and money to invest in chasing the scorecard bonus. If you are getting a big scorecard bonus you are providing good service to your clients. I thought State Farm paved the way in the insurance world. We have to many agents and the only reason we do is because leadership gets bonused on it. They don't care about existing agents or even giving new agents a sporting chance to grow a book before placing another one next door.
I am down to one staff. I can't afford to do pave, netquote, multi-agent advertising, holiday cards, household contact program, super bundle, the list goes on. I could not even afford to take the ambassador trip I qualified for. I have to close the office early sometimes so I can watch my kids while my wife goes to work at night. The office phone goes to voicemail 15-20 times per day. Clients walk in and see 4 empty desks.
My agency is exactly the oppisite of what it should be. This is the new model of State Farm's agency force. All created by DAFO forced expenses, inadequate assignments, and illustrations which are completely false. Not to mention empty promises by ignorant and arrogant leadership.
I do still love my job and I will always work hard for my clients and my businesses bottom line. I just don't believe I will ever work hard for State Farm. The companies goals and aspirations mean nothing to me and at one point they meant the world to me.
How can you purchase your own trip for the same as what it costs you in taxes? That is nonsense unless you are in a 35% tax bracket, which I doubt, if you are broke and making as little money as you claim. The trip costs whatever your EFFECTIVE TAX RATE is. I'm sure you have many deductions, etc from your personal taxes. I was able to get my Effective Tax Rate down to 3.5% in 2008. 6.3% in 2007. So the trip I went on this year cost me an additional $252 in taxes. I guarantee you can't go to Disney World for 5 days in the best accomodations for $250 (or Austria).
fastrak1 - No offense, but are you a State Farm Agent? If not, you have no idea how State Farm can put the hurt on you via a 1099. They don't even call it a 1099. Rather, you are INCOME UPDATED!
I've always been in sales and thought I could make an expense report sing. W R O N G State Farm redefines the term new math with what they tell the IRS and how they report things.
Here is an example of how State Farm will rip you off if you purchase the TICA office package from Puntnam. I won't even go into the sales experience, which is terrible. As an example, they do not even tell you what the furniture cost until the very end. At which point, they tell the TICA it is $13,000. Once they are done with your INCOME UPDATE, you paid $23,000 in the eyes of the IRS.
(this will make you wish you were in Hawaii or Austria)
$ 4,200.00 ship and install
$ 4,408.63 furniture discount (because you are a State Farm Agent)
$13,319.83 cost of furniture
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$22,284.46 total amount of 1099 after you are "income updated"
Thus, three desk and a few cheap chairs cost a new Agent twenty two grand in the eyes of the IRS. Do me a favor fastrak1, don't ever post on here again about what is nonsense when it comes to State Farm and taxes. I am sure you know a great deal about the current US Tax Code, but twice now you have ripped on State Farm TICA's or State Farm Agents about tax issues where you were misinformed. Again, are you a State Farm Agent? I have several friends who qualified for Hawaii and told me they could have had a way better trip for less than what they were taxed (i.e. "Income Updated" by State Farm). Thus, it is not nonsense to think that an Agent could take their spouse on a vacation for less than what they were taxed via State Farm and the IRS.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - regardless of our personal and business decisions none of the new agents are in the situations promised - antfarm
AMEN
(except for you infoe - you must be smarter than the other kids - just don't drown on the Kool-Aid) Oh wait, I forgot that you are in a good market with a nice DAFO and a good AFE. Thus, they would never lie to you. Right?
Last edited by Nazz Utopia : 10-30-2009 at 10:59 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
I am smarter than the other kids. I don't drink any company kool-aide. I'm going into this knowing all that has been posted here. I have no choice. Its the best "apparent" opportunity for me in this stage of my life. Besides the obvious, why are you so bitter?
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My whole point has always been there has to be some people making it. Heck I'd be fine with barely surviving for 5-10 years if there was a distant light in the tunnel to turn things into serious profits. I know in my market there are people that move into the state/city EVERYDAY. How much raw new auto could you possibly do in michigan? Hey not your fault you're there its the cards you got. When florida opens back up learn spanish move there and write tons of business.
Last edited by infoe : 10-31-2009 at 12:48 AM.
Reason: Posts merged
Here is an example of how State Farm will rip you off if you purchase the TICA office package from Puntnam. I won't even go into the sales experience, which is terrible. As an example, they do not even tell you what the furniture cost until the very end. At which point, they tell the TICA it is $13,000. Once they are done with your INCOME UPDATE, you paid $23,000 in the eyes of the IRS.
(this will make you wish you were in Hawaii or Austria)
$ 4,200.00 ship and install
$ 4,408.63 furniture discount (because you are a State Farm Agent)
$13,319.83 cost of furniture
=========
$22,284.46 total amount of 1099 after you are "income updated"
Please help me understand this. If you are BUYING the furniture, how is it income to you? If I go to the local business furniture store and buy an office's worth of furniture, they don't send me a 1099 at the end of the year. How can State Farm send you a 1099 or INCOME UPDATE you? Why not just dispute it with the IRS?
My whole point has always been there has to be some people making it. Heck I'd be fine with barely surviving for 5-10 years if there was a distant light in the tunnel to turn things into serious profits. I know in my market there are people that move into the state/city EVERYDAY. How much raw new auto could you possibly do in michigan? Hey not your fault you're there its the cards you got. When florida opens back up learn spanish move there and write tons of business.
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