We are all aware of the changing nature of the business, that is not where we as agents are having problems. The problem is the relationship between the managers and agents. The managers used to be the Agents Ally. This is not the case any more.
I am not an expert on the new contract, as I do not have it. My understanding is that the TICA contract and the AA05 contract are the same. The company changes the bonus program at will, and this has a huge affect on the new contract.
The number of apps varies by region. In my area the top producer averages over 100 apps a month. Top new agents averaging 60 apps a month, and not making enough money due to the new contract.
Those retention numbers do not seem right to me.
On average, how many of those "60 apps" become policies?
I told him to, but i think he's hoping they won't notice (i know) so I figured I ask on here and see if anyone knows. I have a different recruiter than him so I will ask mine, but in the mean time I was just checking! Thanks
Give up on the "won't notice" part. Even if somehow State Farm misses it (which they won't), when you fill out the U-4 for the securities license you are required to report it, and FINRA will turn it down. Without a securities license, I doubt that you can get a State Farm appointment.
I believe FINRA will accept a discharged bankruptcy (not sure on this) with discharge and explanation. This will have to come from State Farm though, so I would highly suggest being open and upfront about it.
Do you have any ownership in your book? When you decide to retire or go independent what happens to your agency? I know that independent and allstate agents can sell their agencies. You might look into that. It doesn't make much sense to me to spend 5-10 years servicing and building a business to just turn it over to someone else when you retire or quit.
Speaking of- are the series 6 and 63 state specific? if i am in Missouri but want my agency in Texas what's the best thing to do? I'll need my P & C and L/H too, but I know I'll have to make a trip to Texas to take these exams. I wanted to get all of the above out of the way ASAP! Thanks!
[COLOR=darkred]I would say Yes it would disqualify him. I think many of the new agents I know had very high credit scores BEFORE becoming agents. My score was 794 right before I started. What about the New agents that have filed bankruptcy 3-4 after they became agents because of the new contract ?[/COLOR]
Originally Posted by Birdstheword84
My friend is also going to go through the process to become a SF agent. but he filed bankruptcy 2 years ago- his credit is ok now, but will that disqualify him?
[COLOR=darkred]No you do not own your book of business when you retire its gone. There is no real provision for retirement in the new deal or the previous one "I think" as I am not sure exactly how that contracts reads. I would say most agents will not be able to 100% retire unless they save enough money to live off of. On the positive side you don't have to buy it in the beginning you just have to earn the opportunity. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkred]The goals for many agents are to get totally out of debt and save as much as possible. Then when "normal" retirement comes you would have to keep your agency but have the staff to operate your agency if you are not there. I know agents that work 2 days a week and others that take off 6 months a year. Now these are long term agents 25+ years and they have a multiple licensed staff that can do whatever is needed for policyholders.[/COLOR]
Originally Posted by RayGroupInsurance
Do you have any ownership in your book? When you decide to retire or go independent what happens to your agency? I know that independent and allstate agents can sell their agencies. You might look into that. It doesn't make much sense to me to spend 5-10 years servicing and building a business to just turn it over to someone else when you retire or quit.
[COLOR=darkred][COLOR=#8b0000]Okay so anybody in the "know" will know the company had meetings this week in different regions to discuss the current contract. Rumor is that they are going to finally change it. They would not however admit that during these meetings. They said things like "its a expense problem" you new agents are having. What, the company is the one that "*suggested" that we do 3 things. Get the $20,000 furniture package, hire at least 3 staff and get an office in the busiest (ended up for most being most expensive) area that we were allowed to go. Under the old deal where they paid for staff and rent you would have had 2 staff (co paid for) and you would have stayed in previous agent's office in most cases.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkred]3 points were made by agents. 1. The company or management does NOT care about us. 2. The co has over promised and under delivered. 3. the new agents can't keep going home to their spouses and telling them they are not making much money.[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=darkred]
[COLOR=darkred]Blame was put a lot of the DAFO. That started in 2004. If you don't know what that is I won't go into it here it was basically a new department for training new agents. They kept talking about that we had to trust them. Same thing they told agents back in 1997 when they served up the previous contract and every agent that took it regretted it. All we want is that deal and something for the past 3 years or more if you were one of the first. They are losing agents in record numbers and can't replace the older agents much less TICA agents. Look before you leap. If they make the change it will be a decent to good career choice again but NOT until or if they do.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#8b0000]*many things were so called "suggested" during our TICA phase (first year) and we were lead to believe that we were to do these things or not get our contracts.[/COLOR]
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Hey Z, I talked to a TICA that went to this same meeting. He stated that it went almost exactly the same.
After a break, an anonymous letter left by an agent at the meeting was read to the group to get the conversation rolling. I was wondering if that happened at your meeting?
The head honcho stated that if anyone told you, you would be making money at anytime before 5-8 years, then we are sorry.
[COLOR=darkred][COLOR=#8b0000]They not only told us they showed us ALL a template what we should or would be making after years 1-3. They say they NO longer show this template. They say now "it's not a contractual thing its a cash flow thing" So when they basically forced us to have 3 staff, the expensive office, and the $20,000+ furniture pack we are under the huge debt that put almost all of us under. What a shame that people were so afraid to have an open discussion that a note had to be left on a chair to get the real issues out on the table. The company kept talking about "trust" and they couldn't tolerate us not trusting them. If you have to ask someone if they trust you that you have had a long term relationship then maybe or probably they don't. So if its a cash flow thing then new agents should have 1 staff, buy a cheap furniture package and get a low priced rent. You do these things and you can forget about getting your permanent contract. I saw that happen to several. One new agent was almost on time to travel and they told that agent that NO contract after the TICA was going to be offered, told him in month 11. It IMO was a personality conflict between him and his AFC and they fact that the TICA had not moved to the town he was an agent as the house they lived in was still for sale after 12 months and he only lived 30 some miles away anyway. I know agents that went ahead and moved before their home was sold so then they had 2 house payments and a rent payment on an office. How quickly will that put you in debt.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkred]Let me remind people how this works. You are first under a one year contract called a TICA and the T is term (one year) during this year they decide if you will get your so-called permanent contract and they say they "suggest" certain things to you . We all understood that you did these REQUIREMENTS or NO DEAL would be offered at the end of the TICA. They did NOT tell any of us that it would be years 5-8 to start making money. They told us a lot different stories than they are now. They new contract started in 2004 and it was created by people who didn't have a clue as to how it would work in the real world. People on high incomes set up in that BIG BLACK building in Bloomington and decided to ruin lives, cause bankruptcies , divorces and ruined careers and that is the bottom line. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#8b0000]All we want is what the previous agents have the 97 deal. The future of the company is at stake. If we all or most all have to control expenses to the point that we are just trying to survive then where will that lead? Agents that were hired in 2004 are leaving in record numbers and next it will be the 2005 agents. These agents are ripe for the picking from some other insurance company or to go indy. These are some talented, smart hard working people. You know how hard it is to get through the recruitment process ? [/COLOR]
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Originally Posted by Sailor
Hey Z, I talked to a TICA that went to this same meeting. He stated that it went almost exactly the same.
After a break, an anonymous letter left by an agent at the meeting was read to the group to get the conversation rolling. I was wondering if that happened at your meeting?
The head honcho stated that if anyone told you, you would be making money at anytime before 5-8 years, then we are sorry.
Aside from the contract being unfair, you have to deal with state farm employees getting agency assigments for their career tracks. I know a former recruiter who is "serving time" as an agent. Guess how many autos he was assigned? 4500!! not kidding. Yet, if you are from outside the farm, you rarely get 300. When he goes back to corporate in Bloomington, guess some other lucky internal candidate will get his book. We can all hear about how successful they are in the current contract!
Does anyone know a ball park range of what a team member working for an existing agent start out around, or how the commission works?
It is entirely up the agent, and whatever they work out with you. Cost of living here is low, but average is about $25-30K including commissions.
I paid my staff anywhere from $10-14 an hour with incentives. The existing team members that were there were making almost $40K including benefits, but that was because the older agents have a much more lucrative contract than new ones do. He also didn't physically participate in the day to day at all, and it was worth it to him to have it all run without him.
Today, that situation is not possible for new agents.
How is the negotiating process coming along? Are you able to get a larger book and sign on based on negotiating skill or is it all predetermined? I have been led to beleive that it is predetermined (for the most part). Of course that's what they want you to think coming in, but what has been your experience?
Also, how did your initial panel interview to become an approved candidate go?
You are not going to be able to negotiate anything. Sf slices up existing books of business by premium amount. Sometimes you get what they gave you. Sometimes you get more, as is the case if you are the one that got the original location (people that had their policies moved will move back in a lot of cases). If your part of the pie forces you to relocate, you will lose some of what they give you.
I was given an extraordinarily large book of business, but it was in a declining community. Great on the front end, and even though several hundred policies were sliced off, a lot came back. My book was very heavy on the service side, much more than what i was used to as a team member. Also, under the new contract and in a difficult market to grow (12 new homes built in a year, and over 40% auto penetration), I was looking at a $40K pay cut year three.
I was different. I only went into a little debt as opposed to others. Long term I was looking at cut.
Glad to hear the contract is under scrutiny. They changed it Jan 1 this year, but I don't think it helped stem the tide of all the failing agents.
I have a SF recruiter calling frequently, inviting me to group lunches for recruits. Makes you wonder, if it's such a great opportunity, why do they have to sell it so hard?
The great agents that built this company are dying and retiring.
I think about 40% of the entire force will be gone in the next 7 years. 17,000 agents. And a lot of those books are going to be sliced into 2, 3 or even 4 slices.
All I'm saying is the generation that's used to walking in a grabbing a chair is being replaced by college kids who are graduation and doing far more online.
Our fathers couldn't compre State Farm to Nationwide without sitting eith each. Now they can be compared online - and sold online.
The online cos are putting people in the field.
Buying insurance while you are in college? Online is fine. When you buy a house and need someone to talk to? Not so much.
The old cos are scrambling to have a better online presense, the online cos are trying to figure out retention, which is only accomplished through personal relationships.
It would be safe to say that most debt in the first year comes from primarily marketing expenses. Office expenses aren't usually at the top of expenses since you get assistance on all office materials, desks, computers, etc, from SF. Some individuals do incur debts on office furniture because they would rather get their own rather than the furniture available through SF. At that point, it becomes a matter of wants verses needs. Again, a solid business proposal can essentially help you budget your first year.
Depending on where you are, the debt incurred will obviously be different. SF realizes that, so signing bonus are different according to the market you are entering. The current minimum is 18k. I am recruiting to an area that right now where I can offer a minimum of 24k for example.
It is also possible to quality for additional marketing bonuses on top of the signing bonus, but that is at the discretion of the Field Executive you are aligned with and how much budget he has been allocated.
The bottom line is that you are opening a business. As with any other business, you should be prepared to incur some debt. But a well planned business will obviously do better.
I personally haven't seen someone with that much debt, and I'm in California.
Do the math...if you are using 18k cash from State Farm, 25k line of Credit from SF Bank (which every agent receives), and 50k of your own funds (required), then that is nearly 100k of investment in your business already. If your going into further debt then the obvious answer is that the agent is not producing at a sufficient rate.
And yes..SF only uses internal recruiters.
I don't want to be negative, but it is cheaper for an agent to get their own furniture and fixtures on their own. The Hon package is not a good deal.
For others, SF gives you computers/printers (only to a certain degree based on policy count and hooks up the internet).
I love SF. I know you are just trying to do your job. Maybe your post about "desks" was a typo. Other office materials?
I paid for every cent save for one box that showed up, and those are full of apps. They are free.
We have an over 50 yr old who just got his contract. He moved his book of business 10 miles away to a smaller town. We told him to stay put, the AFO said it was a good idea. Most of his clients moved back to another agent in the town they started in.
He will be out of business in a year or two.
At least he picked his poison.
Sf sliced off a big chunk of business and MADE the tica agent (take them 20 miles down the road to an area that will be booming in a few years.
He's in year 5 and is in debt $250+. Great agent, got so deep his father mortgaged everything as losing is not an option now.
$250K.
Not a lavish office, him and one team member (now, he came on when they made you hire 3 AND a FSR)
My negativity is directed at the recruiting process, and the relationship between management and the agents.
SF has been fantastic to my family. I am very fortunate. I have no debts, and have the freedom to spend time with my young children. The agents, claims and underwriting partners are fantastic.
My beef is with the treatment of the new tica agents. It is not ethical in my opinion.
Good luck to you. Use your real estate contacts to write HO's. We have had good luck, getting referrals from mort brokers/realtors by getting dec pages to them asap, and giving $10 gas cards for their referral. Also the Phoenix first to die policy is very competitive (at least in my area) to cover the mortgage.
X2...Most of the E's Ive talked with HATE the recruiters. They keep score on how many people they recommend that make it VS the mass numbers the recruiters push through.
Guess who is ahead?
Not trying to dig on Mr Recruiter, he's just trying to do his job.
I ran into all of the above and more as a Captive Farmers Agent. I looked at the Allstate process and it is the same. It is really difficult to make a living with any of these programs for the first 5 years. At that point your renewals are paying your expenses, but you still have to hustle the financial and life to make a good living.
I hit all my numbers, won the plaques and awards and even then decided it was too long a road to travel. I was never told the whole truth and a lot of things were brushed over or not mentioned at all. They have tightened the programs so much it is nearly impossible to make it.
The most useless person in the Farmers organization? The District Manager.
I've heard that. I'm finding the same in other cos as well.
Re: Becoming a State Farm Agent
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