Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
From Politco: Obama’s senior adviser David Axelrod is promising a far more detail-oriented approach next week – although he’s not saying what those specifics will actually be, especially when it comes to the hot-button “public” option proposal dividing liberal and conservative Democrats.
Always a speech coming up to save the day. Always a promise that we will see some details. We are a month past the deadline that Obama said he wanted to meet for enacting a bill, yet we are waiting until next week to see what he would want in that bill. He sent the dems out for slaughter to the town meetings so that he could figure out what he wanted based on which proposals drew blood and which did not. Nice. Some frigging plan.
The reality is that Obama et al are in negotiations with Olympia Snowe/Repubican moderates to do "health insurance reform." The public option will not fly in round one, but in true socialist fashion, Obama will just say that everyone is on probation and if coverage does not go up and costs down then there will be a trigger for a government option. Then the government will unleash its unlimited incentives and punishments on the private sector and/or coops to start spreading its tenticles until there is no distinction between the private sector and what government wants this week.
Truthfully, I have no interest in his frigging upcoming speech. The libs will allege that I am just anti-Obama and that is the reason. Let me humbly say though that that is a complete crock of shoot. I fervently watched and listened for his health plan details all through the campaign. Nothing. I fervently watched and listened for the last eight months. Nothing but 10,000 foot statements. I said frig it, I will just wait and see what his bill looks like. Nothing. He needs to skip the upcoming speech. Press the clear button and introduce a bill that has exactly what he wants and then hold hearings on it. Otherwise, as stated, frig him and the horse he rode in on. Ironically, his base is as unhappy with him as I am now and the independents have also shifted. What a mess.
Oh, and lest we forget, as the months go by, dont forget when he gives his speech "that we may not accomplish everything we want in this first attempt but we will have agreed upon a set of benchmarks and guiding principles that will lay the foundation for future action should these goals not be achieved." I stay with my prediction that that is where we will be before the end of the year. Short on details. Long on benchmarks and principles that have been agreed upon. How could it be otherwise?
Probably that will come out prettier on a teleprompter.
Puke.
His clear goal is to get all the way through this process without ever associating himself with anything other than a 10,000 level goal. Well, let me say that I hope he fails. Oh, oh, big boo-hoo, the conversatives are saying that they want Obama to fail. Boo-hooo, run to MSNBC and have them play that a few hundred times. Booo-hoo. Racist, inherited, George Bush, whatever.
------------------------------------ Border Security: There is no way around it. Even complete amnesty will not do anything to keep the growing insurrection in Mexico - in Mexico. Two totally different issues.
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
I guess my biggest frustration is that the Democrats (and that includes the President) are clearly not being honest about their ultimate goal: Using the "public option" as a Trojan Horse for Single Payer.
On June 15th, Obama denied that the public option is just a means to an end: "What are not legitimate concerns are those being put forward claiming a public option is somehow a Trojan horse for a single-payer system. … So, when you hear the naysayers claim that I’m trying to bring about government-run health care, know this - they are not telling the truth."
But on July 27th, Barney Frank lets the cat out of the bag: "Because we don’t have the votes for it. I wish we did. I think that if we get a good public option it could lead to single payer and that is the best way to reach single payer. Saying you’ll do nothing till you get single payer is a sure way never to get it. … I think the best way we’re going to get single payer, the only way, is to have a public option and demonstrate the strength of its power."
No one can deny that Obama, Frank, Pelosi, Reid, Dean and many other Democrats have made it clear that their goal is Single Payer.
Obama in 2003: “I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”
Look, I don't expect politicians to be honest, but if the Democrats want Single Payer, let's debate it out in the open, without all the games. Who knows? Perhaps the Democrats would convince the American public that government-run health care is the way to go.
But this dishonesty, on such an important topic, is very frustrating.
...
------------------------------------ "Hey waitress! Bring us a bottle of tequila and call the cops!"
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Originally Posted by Mac1958
but if the Democrats want Single Payer, let's debate it out in the open, without all the games. Who knows? Perhaps the Democrats would convince the American public that government-run health care is the way to go.
...
And then again, perhaps not. Arguably that is what the purpose of the town halls is/was - for the dems to see if their positions would hold water with the American public. Ahhhh....not so much I think.
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Originally Posted by Winter
And then again, perhaps not. Arguably that is what the purpose of the town halls is/was - for the dems to see if their positions would hold water with the American public. Ahhhh....not so much I think.
Yep!
That's why the Democrats are taking the incremental approach. I have to say, it's been nice to see that there are still some Americans who don't believe that it's the responsibility of a bunch of professional politicians and the federal bureaucracy to take care of them, to make life "fair", to make everyone "even".
I do suspect that we're going in that direction, however. The Democrats have been pushing this notion for decades, and demographics are in their favor.
Sadly, qualities such as independence, self-reliance, sacrifice and discipline (not to mention the success these qualities bring) are now equated with "greed". I don't know if that can be reversed.
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Just my two cents, but if the Dems can't get ardent support for a public option right now when they control the WH, the Senate, and the House they will never get it. And if they can't get a public option passed (which doesn't look likely), they won't get a single payor in the near future.
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Originally Posted by ABC
Its is going to be interesting to see what BS comes out of BO.
The CBO has clearly stated that the Gov. option increases spending.
The libs just don't care about bankrupting this country and really I think we already are.
I am hoping that he will have the good sense to resign and step down before giving his speech next week. Realistically, that is probably not going to happen. Then again, neither is the public option.
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Originally Posted by Winter
Realistically, that is probably not going to happen. Then again, neither is the public option.
You neo-cons just love to hear yourselves howl at the moon. I've kind of enjoyed the past two weeks just sitting back and watching you all primp and preen. You're all excited about poll numbers and town-hall meetings, and what you see is confusion by the opposing players.
Did you ever think that you are being played... by political operatives smarter than you are? Did you ever think that maybe leaving it up to Congress was a political ploy... divide and conquer?
A lot of you neos would do well to read the history of how LBJ got Medicare passed.
What's old is new.
You neos have had the ball the entire half, and have not scored a knock-blow to health reform (since you are bought and paid for by the insurance industry that pays your 6-figure incomes.) The other side is getting the ball now... and they have a bigger line, a better QB, and the home field advantage. And they didn't get to the playoffs and become the favorite by being stupid during the pre-season, like the McCain team did.
Like I say, read your history... and learn how big political things are done in the big political city. It's not the way you learned in civics class.
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Originally Posted by al3
A lot of you neos would do well to read the history of how LBJ got Medicare passed.
And you would do well to actually read up on LBJ and realize LBJ doesn't work today. Or as they say in your beloved rural south, "That dog don't hunt."
LBJ was easily the biggest criminal in US presidential history. Even ACORN doesn't do election fraud one tenth as well as LBJ did it. A slick politician? Yes. Someone who had a small amount of redeeming quality through his policies? Yes. But make no mistake about it, a cold calculating criminal on his best day. Hmmmm, that doesn't sound like another famous liberal who just passed away, does it? The more things change, the more they stay the same. Although lumping LBJ in with a murderer isnt really fair to him I suppose.
------------------------------------ The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Originally Posted by al3
Did you ever think that you are being played... by political socialist smarter than you are? Did you ever think that maybe leaving it up to Congress was a socialist ploy... divide and conquer?
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Al -
You've been watching the wrong game. The libs have had the ball the entire first half, they brought their own referee's, scorekeepers, and enforcers.
Even with this very unfair advantage, they have dropped the passes, failed in the run, been blitzed, rushed, slowed down, and basically have had the score keepers arguing about which column things go in, rather than keeping their eye on the ball.
Here's the thing.....
Second half is coming up starting next week. Due to the rules, the libs get to keep the ball the entire second half as well (yes, elections have consequences). Because the rules of the first half didn't work (coach couldn't decide what counted as a score), the libs are coming out with new rules.
That is politics at its finest. I may not like it, but I don't particularly object to that, it is the way politics works.
Now, we'll see what the new rules are. Do they come closer to meeting with the publics view? Or are they what the politicians say the publics view is?
The big thing for me is, will there be intellectual honesty from this point forward? Let's look at a few points...
Have health insurance companies EVER denied someone access to healthcare? The answer: NO, NEVER. Hmm, different than I hear on TV. I know, right now, you are screaming how foolish of me into the monitor. Thing is, they may have denied they would pay for it, but that doesn't deny access. Obama has said he will do the same thing, deny paying for anything "that doesn't make you healthier". Now, it's okay for him to do it, while in the same breath complain about health insurance companies doing it.
Second piece of intellectual honesty....
Health insurance premiums are high. Hey, the cost of health care is high. You can't fix the premiums without fixing the cost of healthcare. Where is that plan in detail?
The third piece of intellectual honesty....
How does this get paid for? I'm assuming that even if something passes, I still have to pay my health insurance premiums. Hmmm, this isn't actually ever mentioned. A lot of supporters seem to present the concept that the new plan will be paid for by somebody else.
If there is a public option, what exactly will it cover? How much is my deductible? What is my copay? Does it make my life better? Show me!
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Originally Posted by tcarlj
And you would do well to actually read up on LBJ and realize LBJ doesn't work today. Or as they say in your beloved rural south, "That dog don't hunt."
LBJ was easily the biggest criminal in US presidential history. Even ACORN doesn't do election fraud one tenth as well as LBJ did it. A slick politician? Yes. Someone who had a small amount of redeeming quality through his policies? Yes. But make no mistake about it, a cold calculating criminal on his best day. Hmmmm, that doesn't sound like another famous liberal who just passed away, does it? The more things change, the more they stay the same. Although lumping LBJ in with a murderer isnt really fair to him I suppose.
Well, there are other aspects of the analogy to LBJ that are interesting as well.
LBJ may have been a hard-nosed wheeler and dealer but he also accomplished some hard core lib goals between Medicare and the War on Poverty etc. Problem is, he dug us deeper and deeper into Vietnam and the libs ended out hating him and it torpedoed his entire legacy.
This is exactly where Obama is headed. By the time we get out of Afghanistan no one is going to be remembering that Obama is the guy who brought us guaranteed issue, believe me. LBJ was out there promoting and accomplishing much for the liberal domestic agenda but the libs were all out on the streets spitting on him. Think about it Barry. More gray hairs to come. Sure LBJ "inherited" Viet Nam from JFK but it stopped being JFK's war at a certain point after he ramped it up. The "inherited" rationale gets you a few months. That's about it.
Of course Barry has this great relationship with the Europeans so he has talked the French into sending another brigade of pastry chefs to Afghanistan. I suppose the Americans do like to have a croissant with their coffee before going out on deployment every day.
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Let me get this straight.
We're going to get a health care plan that is written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, signed by a president that also hasn't read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's nearly broke.
What could possibly go wrong
(THE MONITOR SAYS "PICK YOUR NOSE") (DON'T KNOW WHY THE PICTURE IS SO SMALL)
Re: Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming UpGo to Top
Originally Posted by 0b1kanobee
Let me get this straight.
We're going to get a health care plan that is written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, signed by a president that also hasn't read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's nearly broke.
What could possibly go wrong
(THE MONITOR SAYS "PICK YOUR NOSE") (DON'T KNOW WHY THE PICTURE IS SO SMALL)
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Benchmarks and Guiding Principles Coming Up
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