I would never recomend that a client do anyway WL completely for Term. But what I do recomend is maybe reducing the whole life and replacing the difference or more with term if its needed.
For new clients I usually do a mix....I had a family that wanted 300K on husband an wife.
So I did 25K WL and 275k Term.
Sounds good to me. The kids will be gone and the house should be paid off when the term runs out and then they will have the 25k for burial and other needs.
I would make sure to have R.O.P. on the term so that they also get their money back and that money can also help with some other things they might need.
------------------------------------
Mark Rosenthal aka markingriffin
IMO/Ins Agent/Agent Trainer/Free Advice markcrosenthal@aol.comwww.realfastservice.com
Please visit mywebsite to learn more about me.
Email me for my Free Prospecting MP3 Tapes.
Sounds good to me. The kids will be gone and the house should be paid off when the term runs out and then they will have the 25k for burial and other needs.
I would make sure to have R.O.P. on the term so that they also get their money back and that money can also help with some other things they might need.
I'd like to offer an alternative opinion. The kids should be gone and the house should be paid off when the term runs out. But that doesn't make it so. I would recommend converting more and more of the term to whole life as the years progress. Also, adding more term might not be a bad idea. This idea that these people are now set until death with life insurance is short-sighted.
Life is dynamic and changes occur. I firmly believe we owe it to our clients to continue updating their insurance. If not, another agent will.
Life is dynamic and changes occur. I firmly believe we owe it to our clients to continue updating their insurance. If not, another agent will.
That is why it is important for the agent to keep in contact with his clients. The clients needs change all the time and you should be there with a new answer for their problems.
The baby boom generation has also introduced a new term into the mix. Retiring [COLOR=red]RED. [/COLOR][COLOR=black]The majority of folks going into retirement are not going in mortgage free or debt free. I can't tell you how many people I deal with who still have a large 6 figure mortgage in hand going into retirement. It's part of the reason we're in the state of economy we're in. [/COLOR]
I have people in their 60's still looking to pick up a quarter to half million in coverage because.. well, most theories really don't play out the way we're convinced they will.
Buying term and investing the difference.. how'd that work out?
People and planners rarely ever think about being wrong or not quite right... a permanent policy purchased early in life could be there for old age, paid up and chugging along. While not earning top returns (always debatable) is it a planning "mistake" that can really hurt you? Compared to a expiring term policy and an investment portfoilio that might be down 40% in value right now?
Which hurts more for being wrong? Losing 4-5% return on some money committed to a wl policy or the BTID today?
I guess I would also argue if that money spent on a wl is all you've got to invest, it's probably better in a wl. (difference between wl prem and term prem). (Unless there's company matching involved, then modify as needed)
I do many things for my portfoilio Wl, security investments, real estate etc.. The wl has yet to disappoint me. Can't say that about my securities or real estate which I must continue to hold onto in hope that they recover.
It is funny, but in my years of selling insurance and investments I have always described my wl as my if I F'd up investment. That is no one brags about their WL returns. We brag about our developing markets in China fund, our RIETs and what not... till they tank. What's left after? Our "if I Fup" plan... my WL policy. My boring whole life policy.......
Every dog has it's day.
I am curious, what makes one think one will commit to making the WL premiums and not the BTID fund? Experience shows me that most folks surrender their WL, or max borrow rather than keep till death, just my observation. Realistically people don't keep their Wl or BTID!
I keep reading post where it is said that the client won't keep this or that. So why sell it to them.
It's like a doctor giving out meds. It's not his fault of the patience does not take his meds. All he can do is try and give the patience what he needs.
You could say, doctor why write his a prescription, he is not going to take the meds. But the doctor still writes it.
It is true that a lot of clients will not keep what protection we have given to them. But we still have to try.
I swear that English in the South is a different language, but I do agree with Mark.
Why is it the agent's responsiblity that the client does what is "right?" When I sell an HSA with preventive care, do I have to make certain the client gets a checkup?
I like the idea of ROP even though the client may not keep the plan for the full 20 or 30 years. If he/she does, then I've really helped them. If they don't, it is not my problem.
I can only lead the horse to water. It's up to the government to make him drink. (Sorry, wrong thread).
Rick
------------------------------------ ILIAA
Training, Community, Support, and Success Independent Life Insurance Agents Assn rick@iliaa.org
The baby boom generation has also introduced a new term into the mix. Retiring [COLOR=red]RED. [/COLOR][COLOR=black]The majority of folks going into retirement are not going in mortgage free or debt free. I can't tell you how many people I deal with who still have a large 6 figure mortgage in hand going into retirement. It's part of the reason we're in the state of economy we're in. [/COLOR]
I have people in their 60's still looking to pick up a quarter to half million in coverage because.. well, most theories really don't play out the way we're convinced they will.
Buying term and investing the difference.. how'd that work out?
People and planners rarely ever think about being wrong or not quite right... a permanent policy purchased early in life could be there for old age, paid up and chugging along. While not earning top returns (always debatable) is it a planning "mistake" that can really hurt you? Compared to a expiring term policy and an investment portfoilio that might be down 40% in value right now?
Which hurts more for being wrong? Losing 4-5% return on some money committed to a wl policy or the BTID today?
I guess I would also argue if that money spent on a wl is all you've got to invest, it's probably better in a wl. (difference between wl prem and term prem). (Unless there's company matching involved, then modify as needed)
I do many things for my portfoilio Wl, security investments, real estate etc.. The wl has yet to disappoint me. Can't say that about my securities or real estate which I must continue to hold onto in hope that they recover.
It is funny, but in my years of selling insurance and investments I have always described my wl as my if I F'd up investment. That is no one brags about their WL returns. We brag about our developing markets in China fund, our RIETs and what not... till they tank. What's left after? Our "if I Fup" plan... my WL policy. My boring whole life policy.......
Every dog has it's day.
Just wait another 10 years. The retirees then will be very happy with their BTID strategy. Because we know over every twenty year cycle since 1765 the market has been up. I know past results are not indicative of future results but come on! The last few months must be a once in a lifetime occurance. There's no way this mess could ever happen again. The SEC, FINRA, and the federal government will protect us from the devestation in the future.
Sure we should feel bad about what has happened to today's retirees, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because 50,000,000 people are going backwards with no time to catch up doesn't mean it will happen to me. Like I said, in the future the government will be there to protect us. Just you wait for all the new regulations!
WL is a rip-off. Plus you only have state officials guarding the hen house of insurance. We all know state governments can't protect us as well as the feds. There's probably been billions (well at least millions or maybe hundred's of thousands) of dollars that policy holders have lost when insurance companies go bankrupt. I'm sure somewhere someone with a life insurance policy from an insurance company has been wiped out when their insurance company folded. I can't think of any off of the top of my head, but give me a couple days. I'll show you!
So if you want to put money into a pathetic-secure-whole-life policy go for it. But don't drag the rest of this board down with your 'quasi-advice'. And please, please don't mention fixed annuities or (the horror) FIAs. It hurts my fingers even typing those words...
Last edited by bobson : 12-31-2008 at 11:09 AM.
Reason: more comments
I am curious, what makes one think one will commit to making the WL premiums and not the BTID fund? Experience shows me that most folks surrender their WL, or max borrow rather than keep till death, just my observation. Realistically people don't keep their Wl or BTID!
Nope. Most people screw themselves. Heck, we only have to look to our politicians to see the mess we've created.
I'm curious, are you suggesting we should quit the insurance business because we can't save everyone?
I swear that English in the South is a different language, but I do agree with Mark.
Why is it the agent's responsiblity that the client does what is "right?" When I sell an HSA with preventive care, do I have to make certain the client gets a checkup?
I like the idea of ROP even though the client may not keep the plan for the full 20 or 30 years. If he/she does, then I've really helped them. If they don't, it is not my problem.
I hate it when I have to agree with Rick... but I agree with Rick!
However, right after Thanksgiving and through the second week in January I DO call every one of my IFP clients, my life and DI clients as well as my group clients and remind them to review their plans and to take advantage of any benefits or options (like conversion) on the plan(s) they have.
Of course I also wish them a Happy New Year, etc.... and with my life and Di and IFP clients (whom I usually know a lot better than group EEs) I schmooze with them a bit.
I know that my credibility about selling insurance (and on the industry as a whole) here on this board is considered by you younger guys as the ramblings of a stupid old man, so believe what you want... BUT PEOPLE REALLY APPRECIATE THE CALL.
None of their service providers do that... not their CPA, not their lawyer, not their hairdresser, not their P&C agent, not their payroll agent, not their credit card machine agent, sometimes not even their own kids!
And you know something? YOU will enjoy the call also. And if you ask the right questions in a gentle and non-threatening way, you will often uncover other financial needs that they care about and will want to discuss. (I'm finding a lot of clients interested in DI... and they never knew I write it (mostly with Principal.))
I know that you young guys would rather send email or snail mail cards... but if you take the last three weeks of the old year, plus the first two of the new... and call your entire book just to say:
"Hi Susan? This is Al Canton, your "hated" insurance agent (smile)... and I just called to wish you not only a happy new year... but a BETTER new year than we've all had THIS year (smile.). {"Oh, Al... thank you so much..} I hope you have been well and business is OK?" {95% of them will 'engage.')
Every single person you speak to will be floored... and will earnestly thank you for caring and will open up to you a little bit. (And take notes in your CRM system (I use SugarCRM but there are others out there. Frank's YIO is also an option as is Zoho.com, etc.)
OK, I don't know as much about the minutia of insurance products as Rick and Dave and Mark and Moonlight, and Frank and two-dozen others... and I'm probably older than all of them COMBINED!
Yes, I'm 61 (which is close to dead!)... BUT I have been self-employed in sales for 32 of those 61 years and (so) I know a few things about people, motivation, human relations, and how to combine all of those into a sale.
Detailed product knowledge I "buy" from my GAs as well as "borrow" from some folks on this board that I correspond with privately. (No one on the planet knows health as well as J.P., no one knows life (or HIPAA) as well as D.F. There is Mr. Skateboard in TX, there are lots of people whom you can contact for help... as long as you don't overstay your welcome! (Don't make a pest of yourself... don't ask them the same question twice... don't ask for a fish... ask them to teach you how to fish (or skateboard!))
As always, YMMV.
Look at the time. It's almost 9 am. More "howareya" calls to make! This is truly one of the fun parts of this biz. Try it. You'll like it
[COLOR=red]And if you're wrong? what then[/COLOR]?
"The retirees then will be very happy with their BTID strategy. Because we know over every twenty year cycle since 1765 the market has been up."
[COLOR=red]But will it be up when it's YOUR turn?[/COLOR]
"I know past results are not indicative of future results but come on! The last few months must be a once in a lifetime occurance."
[COLOR=red]Really? You're that certain? [/COLOR]
"There's no way this mess could ever happen again. The SEC, FINRA, and the federal government will protect us from the devestation in the future. "
[COLOR=red]And with that regulation comes a flatening of returns as the government seeks "safety" for investors.[/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Return is based on risk, if you reduce or eliminate risk what normally happens to returns? [/COLOR]
"Sure we should feel bad about what has happened to today's retirees, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because 50,000,000 people are going backwards with no time to catch up doesn't mean it will happen to me."
[COLOR=red]And you're doing what to make sure that doesn't happen? [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]Reread my post you went after, what am I doing? Spreading investment choices with different degrees of risk around so I have the ability to wait on liquidation of selected investments, while at the same time reducing debt so I don't retire what color? RED. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]My comments about my WL are true, they haven't disappointed nor have they gone backwards. It's a safety net. Just as I described it. It's the "what if I Fup? plan." What will still be there or what can I tap if needed? Have you ever considered into your planning or your professional advice the possibility of being wrong?[/COLOR]
" Like I said, in the future the government will be there to protect us. Just you wait for all the new regulations!"
[COLOR=red]Protection means reduction of risk which equals lower returns so how does that improve your BTID approach when your pure investments are regulated into safer WL returns?[/COLOR]
"WL is a rip-off. Plus you only have state officials guarding the hen house of insurance. We all know state governments can't protect us as well as the feds. There's probably been billions (well at least millions or maybe hundred's of thousands) of dollars that policy holders have lost when insurance companies go bankrupt. I'm sure somewhere someone with a life insurance policy from an insurance company has been wiped out when their insurance company folded. I can't think of any off of the top of my head, but give me a couple days. I'll show you! "
[COLOR=red]Go ahead and take your couple of days, you may need them. The states have done an exceptional job of staying ontop of the industry, unlike the SEC which recently allowed what a 50 BILLION dollar ponzi sceme to take place and so far have made a house arrest of the criminal? I know my state OIC is a pain in the ass to insurance companies quick to fine for lack of timely reporting, quick to head off problems. So I can't agree with your statement at all as it lacks merit and is more knee jerk than accurate. [/COLOR]
"So if you want to put money into a pathetic-secure-whole-life policy go for it. But don't drag the rest of this board down with your 'quasi-advice'. And please, please don't mention fixed annuities or (the horror) FIAs. It hurts my fngers even typing those words..."
[COLOR=red]That's too bad, I'm sorry you are offended by my quasi-advice. It works for me. It's part of my investment portfoilio and I don't regret the purchase.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]I have lived through many investment cycles and at times really struggle with the certainty of which you speak. Because what you're saying isn't "new" it's just rehashed and repacked every 5-10 years. The benefit I'm seeing is that most people following that advice from 30 years ago are some of my best customers now, because it didn't pan out or wasn't quite right. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]I hope your plan pans out for you 20 years from now, but if you're wrong or off 30% or so, what ya got to compensate? or is it just balls in? What's your "If I Fup plan?" or have you ever given that a second thought? [/COLOR]
There's no way this mess could ever happen again. The SEC, FINRA, and the federal government will protect us from the devestation in the future.
Strange on how you want your clients to rest assured with the SEC/FINRA - the same SEC that is busy stripping the licenses of stockbrokers who forgot to cross their "Ts" on a securities app while Bernie L. Madoff defrauded investors and Jewish charities of over $50 billion dollars? No thanks....I'll rely on my state thank you.
Originally Posted by bobson
Just you wait for all the new regulations!
If you're referring to SEC 151A which will water down Fixed Indexed Annuities and hurt both consumers and agents.....I won't hold my breath. Everyone in the securities and insurance industry knows 151A is not about protecting consumers but about FINRA being upset about losing money to the insurance industry.
Originally Posted by bobson
There's probably been billions (well at least millions or maybe hundred's of thousands) of dollars that policy holders have lost when insurance companies go bankrupt.
You couldn't be more wrong. Please educate yourself about entities called "State Guaranty Assocations" Guaranty Associations
Also, if you're an agent, why would you want to sell insurance for Wiley's Insurance Shack when there are bulletproof multi-national companies out there like AVIVA, ING, and Old Mutual?
Originally Posted by bobson
So if you want to put money into a pathetic-secure-whole-life policy go for it. But don't drag the rest of this board down with your 'quasi-advice'.
So far your entire post has been factually wrong from both an insurance and securities standpoint. You sound like a 19 year old community college dropout who barely passed his insurance license and now is spouting garbage propaganda for your MLM slave-masters at NAA and Primerica. It's advice given by people like you that reduces consumer confidence in our profession and adds craveness to the industry.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Originally Posted by al3
I know that my credibility about selling insurance (and on the industry as a whole) here on this board is considered by you younger guys as the ramblings of a stupid old man, so believe what you want... BUT PEOPLE REALLY APPRECIATE THE CALL.
None of their service providers do that... not their CPA, not their lawyer, not their hairdresser, not their P&C agent, not their payroll agent, not their credit card machine agent, sometimes not even their own kids!
I want to reiterate this point made by Al for the newer folks (and even the experienced producers). This business is about relationships, not numbers. Case in point: you may have run into prospects who don't want to leave their financial advisor or insurance agent, even if the numbers show that they are getting screwed. Emotion trumps logic 80% of the time.
With that being said, I called every one of my clients during the apex of the financial crisis (October) and again to wish them a Merry Christmas in December. Every single one of them really appreciated the call and some of them admitted that they were glad to have me as their financial planner/insurance agent versus anyone else in the community.
I asked some of my clients who else had called them to wish them a Merry Christmas. Would you be surprised to know that with some of my clients, I was the ONLY one who called to wish them a Happy Holidays?
Don't you think they will remember these acts of consideration and kindness when telling their friends about their shiny new insurance policy or securities account?
In my area, there are a few lawyers I know of who give "Checkup" calls like Al described earlier. Then, there are even fewer CPAs and stockbrokers.....and at the bottom of the list, insurance agents.
People do business with people they like, respect, and trust, with an emphasis on "LIKE." By calling your clients at least quarterly and sending them birthday and Christmas wishes, it's a great (and cheap) opportunity to prove to your clients that you're different from 90% of the competition out there - competition which often sees their clients as account codes and not human beings.
------------------------------------
BiggitySwat - Licensed Stockbroker
Life and Health Licenses, Series 7, Series 66.
Last edited by BiggitySwat : 01-01-2009 at 10:52 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
Strange on how you want your clients to rest assured with the SEC/FINRA - the same SEC that is busy stripping the licenses of stockbrokers who forgot to cross their "Ts" on a securities app while Bernie L. Madoff defrauded investors and Jewish charities of over $50 billion dollars? No thanks....I'll rely on my state thank you.
If you're referring to SEC 151A which will water down Fixed Indexed Annuities and hurt both consumers and agents.....I won't hold my breath. Everyone in the securities and insurance industry knows 151A is not about protecting consumers but about FINRA being upset about losing money to the insurance industry.
You couldn't be more wrong. Please educate yourself about entities called "State Guaranty Assocations" Guaranty Associations
Also, if you're an agent, why would you want to sell insurance for Wiley's Insurance Shack when there are bulletproof multi-national companies out there like AVIVA, ING, and Old Mutual?
So far your entire post has been factually wrong from both an insurance and securities standpoint. You sound like a 19 year old community college dropout who barely passed his insurance license and now is spouting garbage propaganda for your MLM slave-masters at NAA and Primerica. It's advice given by people like you that reduces consumer confidence in our profession and adds craveness to the industry.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I want to reiterate this point made by Al for the newer folks (and even the experienced producers). This business is about relationships, not numbers. Case in point: you may have run into prospects who don't want to leave their financial advisor or insurance agent, even if the numbers show that they are getting screwed. Emotion trumps logic 80% of the time.
With that being said, I called every one of my clients during the apex of the financial crisis (October) and again to wish them a Merry Christmas in December. Every single one of them really appreciated the call and some of them admitted that they were glad to have me as their financial planner/insurance agent versus anyone else in the community.
I asked some of my clients who else had called them to wish them a Merry Christmas. Would you be surprised to know that with some of my clients, I was the ONLY one who called to wish them a Happy Holidays?
Don't you think they will remember these acts of consideration and kindness when telling their friends about their shiny new insurance policy or securities account?
In my area, there are a few lawyers I know of who give "Checkup" calls like Al described earlier. Then, there are even fewer CPAs and stockbrokers.....and at the bottom of the list, insurance agents.
People do business with people they like, respect, and trust, with an emphasis on "LIKE." By calling your clients at least quarterly and sending them birthday and Christmas wishes, it's a great (and cheap) opportunity to prove to your clients that you're different from 90% of the competition out there - competition which often sees their clients as account codes and not human beings.
Great post!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Originally Posted by al3
I hate it when I have to agree with Rick... but I agree with Rick!
However, right after Thanksgiving and through the second week in January I DO call every one of my IFP clients, my life and DI clients as well as my group clients and remind them to review their plans and to take advantage of any benefits or options (like conversion) on the plan(s) they have.
Of course I also wish them a Happy New Year, etc.... and with my life and Di and IFP clients (whom I usually know a lot better than group EEs) I schmooze with them a bit.
I know that my credibility about selling insurance (and on the industry as a whole) here on this board is considered by you younger guys as the ramblings of a stupid old man, so believe what you want... BUT PEOPLE REALLY APPRECIATE THE CALL.
None of their service providers do that... not their CPA, not their lawyer, not their hairdresser, not their P&C agent, not their payroll agent, not their credit card machine agent, sometimes not even their own kids!
And you know something? YOU will enjoy the call also. And if you ask the right questions in a gentle and non-threatening way, you will often uncover other financial needs that they care about and will want to discuss. (I'm finding a lot of clients interested in DI... and they never knew I write it (mostly with Principal.))
I know that you young guys would rather send email or snail mail cards... but if you take the last three weeks of the old year, plus the first two of the new... and call your entire book just to say:
"Hi Susan? This is Al Canton, your "hated" insurance agent (smile)... and I just called to wish you not only a happy new year... but a BETTER new year than we've all had THIS year (smile.). {"Oh, Al... thank you so much..} I hope you have been well and business is OK?" {95% of them will 'engage.')
Every single person you speak to will be floored... and will earnestly thank you for caring and will open up to you a little bit. (And take notes in your CRM system (I use SugarCRM but there are others out there. Frank's YIO is also an option as is Zoho.com, etc.)
OK, I don't know as much about the minutia of insurance products as Rick and Dave and Mark and Moonlight, and Frank and two-dozen others... and I'm probably older than all of them COMBINED!
Yes, I'm 61 (which is close to dead!)... BUT I have been self-employed in sales for 32 of those 61 years and (so) I know a few things about people, motivation, human relations, and how to combine all of those into a sale.
Detailed product knowledge I "buy" from my GAs as well as "borrow" from some folks on this board that I correspond with privately. (No one on the planet knows health as well as J.P., no one knows life (or HIPAA) as well as D.F. There is Mr. Skateboard in TX, there are lots of people whom you can contact for help... as long as you don't overstay your welcome! (Don't make a pest of yourself... don't ask them the same question twice... don't ask for a fish... ask them to teach you how to fish (or skateboard!))
As always, YMMV.
Look at the time. It's almost 9 am. More "howareya" calls to make! This is truly one of the fun parts of this biz. Try it. You'll like it
Re: Best Way to Sell Against Whole Life?
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