Originally Posted by Robert Barney
See, unlike you, I don't base my views about carry conceal on EMOTION.
Are you kidding? You're one of the most emotional men in this venue. You've demonstrated that time and time again. There is nothing wrong with that, but I would hardly say that you are qualified to be a peace officer and carry a loaded gun.
I base them on statistics and facts. And what statistics and facts prove is that in every state that has adopted carry conceal laws, violent crime has had a significant drop.
Wow, do you think there is a relationship?
No, of course not. There are many reasons for a drop in crime... more cops on petrol., better trained swat teams, far more surveillance cameras, better communications (cell phones, etc.)
And the most dangerous cities in America are cities that are gun free zones.
You are basing that on what? That's as silly as saying the most dangerous cities in America have the most blacks, or Hispanics or have the most rainfall.
Wow, do you think there is a relationship?
Only in a tin-foil covered head by someone who is a gun-nut.
And think of all the shootings at schools. Funny thing, schools are gun free zones.
How many school shootings are there each year? And explain to me how giving every student a gun is going to solve that?
Wow, do you think there is a relationship?
Only in a tin-foil covered head.
And it wasn't easy to get carry conceal laws in the first states because there were lots of guys like Al claiming there would be blood baths in the streets, and the whole country would turn into Dodge City. Funny thing though, that never happened.
The reason it hasn't happened is that the number of people who carry concealed weapons so far is minimal. I'm sure it won't be long until the gun-nuts decide to take law into their own hands and become a state of Bronson-like Death Wishers.
In fact it's getting harder and harder for guys like Al to cry wolf because there are so many carry conceal success stories in so many states.
For every so called success story there are many more incidents of a gun related homicide by both those who have a permit and those who don't.
But Al, if you don't want to carry a gun and protect yourself, it's OK with me. It's up to you, it's a free country.
Huh? With arch-cons no one is free. No one is safe. Indeed the only reason to carry a weapon is to protect oneself from men and women who would gladly take us back to Alabama of 1958... murder and lynching of those whom they didn't like.
What's not OK is you telling me I can't carry a gun, or should not be allowed to carry a gun. Apart from the fact that it is my Constitutional right, no man is free who is denied the right to bear arms.
Yeah, it's because you can't drive a car as fast as YOU want to, and you can't assault someone just because YOU want to, and can't take others property just because YOU want to. And there is nothing in the Constitution that gives you the right to carry a concealed weapon. The courts have repeatedly upheld gun restriction laws. (But I'm sure you guys would abolish our court system and substitute Star Chamber.)
Why do you think the Nazi's were able to kill so many Jews? That's right, most Europeon Jews were very liberal folks
European Jews of the time "liberal?" Are you kidding? What do you base that on? Being a Jew? Knowing a Jew? Actually ever meeting one? Most Jews in Europe were very conservative, highly resistant to change. Didn't you ever see Fiddler, or Yenta, or Hester Street? Jews in Europe might have been stupid, but hardly liberal.
Ever try to murder 7 million heavily armed people?
We seem to be doing a good job of it in Iraq and Afg. What's the murder rate in Kentucky, West Virginia, and the rest of the CC states?
And David that old war monger, was loved by God.
Did God tell you that himself? Or was it your mythical Jesus?
Do you think God thinks it's wrong to carry a gun. I don't.
I'm sure you don't. I fact I'm sure God would be real happy if you simply just killed everyone who disagreed with you. I'm sure there is something in your bible that will support that. After all, Christians have been doing it (mostly to Jews and Muslims) for the past 2000 years!
I think God has no problem with people defending themselves.
The problem is that guys who carry concealed weaponry are not defensive, they are offensive. Take your average gun-nut arch-con, KKK member. Or just take Robert... who I hope is none of these. Knowing what you know of him, how many of you would feel comfortable having an argument with him in your house while he was packing a rod? Does anyone honestly believe that people who feel a need to carry a weapon everywhere they go are stable and sane?
And you still won't answer my question, why is it OK for police officers to carry guns? They don't carry them in England.
They do carry weapons in the UK. England has strict gun laws and a lower murder rate than the US.
And why do police officers carry guns? Why do they need them?
In this country, where guys like Robert (but not necessarily Robert) are armed to the teeth and who have no problem shooting a cop, much less you and me, I think peace officers need them.
And if it is OK for a police officer to carry a gun, why is it not OK for me to carry a gun?
Because they are constantly trained on how and when to use them. They have gone through some personality screening to weed out the whack-jobs. Only those who have reached the higher grades carry concealed weapons. As much as you might think you are competent to carry a weapon Robert, you are no FBI or CIA or ATF trained agent. You're just a guy who thinks he can protect himself from imaginary demons by carrying a weapon.
But what happens when guys like you (but perhaps not you personally) get pissed off. Hey Robert, above I just called your God a myth. If I said that to the face to a guy with a personality disorder and a guy, what would he do? Wouldn't he have the urge to shoot me? And wouldn't he do it? Be honest.
You want me to believe that I am safer with you walking around with a loaded gun than I would be if you weren't? You? The Robert on this venue that has shown himself to be ... well I won't say it... I promised I would not engage in personal polemics.
Now the rest of you can watch as Al dances around these questions.
I'm not dancing at all. I'm saying right here in the open that I don't believe that men with your personality should be allowed to be cops, much less rogue gun carriers.
I don't feel safe with men who ascribe to the political and social values that you do walking the streets hunting for those they disagree with in order to kill them. That may not be you, but you can't argue that it may not as well... from MY standpoint.
I believe that you would have killed me long ago if you had the option. That is MY belief. That is not calling you a name. I'm saying that in my heart of hearts I truly feel that you are a threat to ME. You are free to disagree, but there is no way I would let you in to my home carrying a weapon.
He will assure us he doesn't have to answer them. After all, his mind is already made up and he doesn't want to be confused with the facts.
When it comes to my personal security, I don't need "facts." I believe that you would not be able to contain yourself and that you would assault me with your weapon. That is how I feel. If YOU are allowed to feel paranoid about our society at large such that you need to carry a weapon, at least allow me the same privilege about feeling paranoid that you or those who think like you... would use said weapon against me.
It would be just wrong to get too deep into a debate and give away the fact that there is no factual basis for his views, just feelings, nothing more than feelings. And that is what gunphobia is based on, feelings.
But where do these feeling come from? They come from personal experience. And my personal experiences with MOST men who hold your social and political philosophy is that they are often men who seek to use violence to solve their personal issues of paranoia.
And having read your missives here in this venue, do I want to take a chance that you might be one of them? Do you think I feel safer with you walking the streets with a loaded weapon... just because you say I should? No way.
I'm scared to death that you would "lose it" and blow someone away. If it means that you can't carry a weapon so that I can feel more secure, yes... I will advocate that position.
You on the other hand advocate a position that you will feel more secure IF you carry a weapon. I'm not going to convince you, nor you me... which is why I get out and work for candidates who are against CC.
I doubt you will ever see it in California. As for Kentucky? Well, we all know what the educational level is there, as well as the political climate is... which is why I live in CA and not Kentucky (or any state like Kentucky.)
And he certainly doesn't want to discover that the Founding Fathers knew and understood something that he doesn't.
Huh? There was no gun rights in the original Constitution. It was an amendment... and had nothing to do with the creation of the Constitution.
I'm curious about one thing. Did you come to America from Canada just so you could carry a gun?
Re: Carry Conceal Weapons Permits
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