Originally Posted by al3
Are you kidding? You're one of the most emotional men in this venue. You've demonstrated that time and time again. There is nothing wrong with that, but I would hardly say that you are qualified to be a peace officer and carry a loaded gun.
I think you are confusing my political position with emotion. You ascribe to me anger, but you are the guy who frequently flies off the handle attributing all manner of nasty accusations upon others. Basically you would do to me, with respect to guns, what liberals did to Limbaugh with respect to an investment in an NFL team. If your political views are not aligned correctly, then you are a sub-grade citizen.
No, of course not. There are many reasons for a drop in crime... more cops on petrol., better trained swat teams, far more surveillance cameras, better communications (cell phones, etc.)
So states that passed carry conceal laws were at the same time putting more cops on the street, training their swat teams better, putting up more cameras, etc.
Al that is thin even for you. Point me to evidence (not feelings) that sets out the research that was done demonstrating that to be the case.
You are basing that on what? That's as silly as saying the most dangerous cities in America have the most blacks, or Hispanics or have the most rainfall.
Murder rates Al, murder rates. Violent crimes like rape. There is no doubt that the unsafest places to live in this country are places like Washington, Chicago and New York.
Only in a tin-foil covered head by someone who is a gun-nut.
There's Al, back to his reasoned arguments.
How many school shootings are there each year? And explain to me how giving every student a gun is going to solve that?
Did I say EVERY student should have a gun. How about teachers who are properly trained and licensed to carry guns, being allowed to do so. Or are you concerned some teacher, with a discipline problem in his/her class, is going to shoot Johnny for making too much noise in class.
In universities where students are adults, I think ANY student who can qualify for a carry conceal permit should be allowed to carry a gun.
Only in a tin-foil covered head.
Poor Al, he just can't help himself.
The reason it hasn't happened is that the number of people who carry concealed weapons so far is minimal. I'm sure it won't be long until the gun-nuts decide to take law into their own hands and become a state of Bronson-like Death Wishers.
You are kidding right. Minimal! Let me assure you that a lot more civilians now have carry conceal permits than there are police officers.
So we are on the brink of complete chaos somewhere because of gun nuts. And do you have ANY facts support this allegation (another of many)?
For every so called success story there are many more incidents of a gun related homicide by both those who have a permit and those who don't.
A flat out, bold faced claim with NO FACTS upon which to base it. None, zip, nadda, nuthin. I posted 5 stories of recent incidents where law abiding citizens, many seniors, used guns to address assailants. Did Al post 5 stores from the same time period demonstrating that people with carry conceal permits were running around like Charles Bronson in the the vigilante movies. Not only did he not produce 5 stories, he didn't produce one story.
Huh? With arch-cons no one is free. No one is safe. Indeed the only reason to carry a weapon is to protect oneself from men and women who would gladly take us back to Alabama of 1958... murder and lynching of those whom they didn't like.
Based upon your definitioin of an "arch-con", the entire group of Founding Fathers were arch conservatives.
And stop equating conservatism with racism. Did you think Hitler was a conservative?
Yeah, it's because you can't drive a car as fast as YOU want to, and you can't assault someone just because YOU want to, and can't take others property just because YOU want to. And there is nothing in the Constitution that gives you the right to carry a concealed weapon. The courts have repeatedly upheld gun restriction laws. (But I'm sure you guys would abolish our court system and substitute Star Chamber.)
No, but I can drive a car. I can use force to defend myself. I can own property. And the Constitutioin says that I can "bear arms". Precisely what does the word "bear" mean? It means to, "to hold or carry". Gee Al, having trouble with the English language?
There are already strict laws about when it is appropriate to use a gun, and when not to. You cannot remove your weapon and show it to someone. That is called brandishing. Did I mention what happens if you take it out and point it at someone? These things are all taught in carry conceal classes and you would know that if you took time off from your feelings to examine the facts.
European Jews of the time "liberal?" Are you kidding? What do you base that on? Being a Jew? Knowing a Jew? Actually ever meeting one? Most Jews in Europe were very conservative, highly resistant to change. Didn't you ever see Fiddler, or Yenta, or Hester Street? Jews in Europe might have been stupid, but hardly liberal.
The point is simple Al, were they "well armed" as many of us Americans are? You have now announced yourself the expert on Europeon Jews, and I know nothing. OK, please describe whether or not Europeon Jews were well armed.
What's the murder rate in Kentucky, West Virginia, and the rest of the CC states?
Look it up yourself Al:
Inside data.gov: US homicide rates by state and type | News | guardian.co.uk
Did God tell you that himself? Or was it your mythical Jesus?
It's in the Bible Al, if you cared to look.
I'm sure you don't. I fact I'm sure God would be real happy if you simply just killed everyone who disagreed with you. I'm sure there is something in your bible that will support that. After all, Christians have been doing it (mostly to Jews and Muslims) for the past 2000 years!
Al, your paranoia is in full tilt.
The problem is that guys who carry concealed weaponry are not defensive, they are offensive.
Al, you go to jail for that. Care to provide statistics for us on how many people with carry conceal permits go to jail for offensive use of weapons?
Take your average gun-nut arch-con, KKK member.
Al, they don't give carry conceal permits to KKK members. You have to pass a background check. In fact I've had to pass them thee times. Once to get in the U.S., once to get a carry conceal permit, and a third time to become a citizen. How many background checks do you think conservative should be forced to pass each year?
Or just take Robert... who I hope is none of these. Knowing what you know of him, how many of you would feel comfortable having an argument with him in your house while he was packing a rod? Does anyone honestly believe that people who feel a need to carry a weapon everywhere they go are stable and sane?
And there it is in a nut shell. Because I carry a weapon all the time is evidence that I am not sane. And Al, when do think it is appropriate to have a weapon, and not have a weapon?
They do carry weapons in the UK. England has strict gun laws and a lower murder rate than the US.
Now Al, you're just spouting misinformation now. While some police in the UK have been given the right to bear arms, it is in VERY LIMITED circumstances, and the average UK Bobbie does not have a holstered gun.
In this country, where guys like Robert (but not necessarily Robert) are armed to the teeth and who have no problem shooting a cop, much less you and me, I think peace officers need them.
OK Al, now you are on a roll. How many carry conceal permit holders shot cops last week? Last month? Last year? Can you find ANY facts to support your outrageous claims and accusations? Why do peace officers need guns Al? Why?
Because they are constantly trained on how and when to use them. They have gone through some personality screening to weed out the whack-jobs. Only those who have reached the higher grades carry concealed weapons. As much as you might think you are competent to carry a weapon Robert, you are no FBI or CIA or ATF trained agent. You're just a guy who thinks he can protect himself from imaginary demons by carrying a weapon.
This is now Al speaking from the depths of his ignorance. Ask any police officer you know, to explain what training in the use of firearms he has had in the last year, last two years. You might be surprised.
Carry conceal permit holders are also screened, and whack jobs are not given permits.
All kinds of cops carry concealed weapons. Al, have you ever heard of a back up gun. Every officer in our town has one, and it's concealed.
Please identify the last time a carry conceal permit holder took out his gun to confont an imaginiary demon.
But what happens when guys like you (but perhaps not you personally) get pissed off. Hey Robert, above I just called your God a myth. If I said that to the face to a guy with a personality disorder and a guy, what would he do? Wouldn't he have the urge to shoot me? And wouldn't he do it? Be honest.
No Al, you did not call my God a myth, because he isn't. What you just did was call "God" a myth. It's not my job to deal with you on that Al, that's God's job. The Bible says that vengence is mine saith the Lord, you may have heard that before. I am not to use my weapon to defend God. But I can use my weapon to defend me, against physical threats to my life, not verbal abuse such as that which you dispense. It's you Al who thinks you are going to be assaulted for what you say. That's your paranoia Al, not mine.
You want me to believe that I am safer with you walking around with a loaded gun than I would be if you weren't? You? The Robert on this venue that has shown himself to be ... well I won't say it... I promised I would not engage in personal polemics.
Actually you are safer in a state that has carry conceal.
I'm not dancing at all. I'm saying right here in the open that I don't believe that men with your personality should be allowed to be cops, much less rogue gun carriers.
And when was your last FBI background check Al? How did you do? I have my carry conceal permit.
I don't feel safe with men who ascribe to the political and social values that you do walking the streets hunting for those they disagree with in order to kill them. That may not be you, but you can't argue that it may not as well... from MY standpoint.
Operable word here is "feel". Thank God my rights are not determined by how Al feels today.
I believe that you would have killed me long ago if you had the option. That is MY belief. That is not calling you a name. I'm saying that in my heart of hearts I truly feel that you are a threat to ME. You are free to disagree, but there is no way I would let you in to my home carrying a weapon.
Al, I know that is your belief, it is your feeling. But then that simply underscores that you are paranoid because your feelings have not basis in fact. You think the world is out to get you and the proof is that they disagree with you.
When it comes to my personal security, I don't need "facts."
Al, you just proved my point.
I believe that you would not be able to contain yourself and that you would assault me with your weapon. That is how I feel. If YOU are allowed to feel paranoid about our society at large such that you need to carry a weapon, at least allow me the same privilege about feeling paranoid that you or those who think like you... would use said weapon against me.
Al, do you use seatbelts because you are paranoid?
But where do these feeling come from? They come from personal experience. And my personal experiences with MOST men who hold your social and political philosophy is that they are often men who seek to use violence to solve their personal issues of paranoia.
And you have provided no evidence to support those feelings.
And having read your missives here in this venue, do I want to take a chance that you might be one of them? Do you think I feel safer with you walking the streets with a loaded weapon... just because you say I should? No way.
To reiterate, because I politically disagree with you, and express my views succinctly and strongly, you equate that to a physical threat to your human life.
Yep, you're paranoid but don't equate that with why I carry a gun.
I'm scared to death that you would "lose it" and blow someone away. If it means that you can't carry a weapon so that I can feel more secure, yes... I will advocate that position.
"Scared to death", huh? Al, is that really how you feel or are you just juicing up the rhetoric? Because if you really do feel scared to death, then you are the guy that is most likely to go off and kill people, not me.
You on the other hand advocate a position that you will feel more secure IF you carry a weapon. I'm not going to convince you, nor you me... which is why I get out and work for candidates who are against CC.
I don't just "feel" more secure, I am more secure.
Al you should go ahead and politically organize and support your views. But it's a free country and I will do the same. The difference is that conservative use and rely upon facts, not "feelings" alone.
I doubt you will ever see it in California. As for Kentucky? Well, we all know what the educational level is there, as well as the political climate is... which is why I live in CA and not Kentucky (or any state like Kentucky.)
We didn't have carry conceal here for many years. But the political climate changed when people realized that the people of the state are more safe with carry conceal than without it.
Huh? There was no gun rights in the original Constitution. It was an amendment... and had nothing to do with the creation of the Constitution.
So amendments to the Constitution are NOT the Constitution. That is what, your "legal opinion"?
I'm curious about one thing. Did you come to America from Canada just so you could carry a gun?
That was certainly one reason. I came because Canada does not have the right to bear arms in its Constitution, it does not have the right to own property, it does not have the right to freedom of speech. It has a nationalized healthcare system and many other abridgements to freedom which make it a much more oppressive nation than the U.S. I decided that my children should be able to live in the most free nation on earth. That is why I came.
Re: Carry Conceal Weapons Permits
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