This thread is for Al, who appears to have an adverse allergic reaction to those of us who have carry conceal permits and who routinely carry guns.
Perhaps a little research will help Al realize that in states that have passed carry conceal laws, violent crime has dropped. Why would it drop? Because crooks no longer know who might or might not be able to defend themselves.
And the good news for those who have a phobia about guns, is that they don't have to carry a gun to be safer in those states. They are safer BECAUSE of the people who carry guns legally.
Al, the next time you are in a state with carry conceal permits, and you find yourself in a large gathering of people, take a look around. There will be a significant number of people in that crowd who have guns that you can't see. And now that you know that, are you any less safe?
As backgroun, the second amendment says:
"...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.:
And here's an article from today's news about carry conceal in the state of South Carolina:
What you won't read in the article is how people with carry conceal permits commit crimes. Why, because people who carry concealed guns legally don't commit crimes. To get a carry conceal permits you must pass an FBI background check. These are law abiding citizens who carry a gun for one reason, to protect themselves from a violent assailant. You know, as intended by the second amendment.
Here is one of the most informative sites on the subject:
Note that carry conceal permits are now available in the majority of states, and the majority of states that have those permits also honor the permits that were issued by other states. This means a permit holder in one state can carry a gun in most states.
Whether you carry or not, I STRONGLY recommend that you get a permit. The reason is simple. I think the course of training is one which anyone who has a gun, of any kind, will benefit taking. It will instruct you as to the laws of your state, when it is appropriate to use deadly force to save your life, and will teach you how to use a handgun and fire it reasonably accurately.
It also means that if you are ever transporting a weapon, no one can every accuse you of having a weapon concealed when you don't have a permit for it.
My local police chief explained that to me after I bought my first handgun, and so I took the course initially to ensure I could transport my guns without concern. Having learned a lot more about carry conceal, and the benefits of doing so, I now carry regularly.
It's too bad the courses are not given to kids in high school.
Well... if you want to pack a rod and be a gun-nut, knock yourself out. Makes no difference to me. I wouldn't turn my back on any of you arch-con, right-wing gun-nuts... with a gun or without a gun.
I can only hope that IF you guys are going to carry, that you keep the safety on... because you might be reaching for some change and accidentally pull the trigger and blow you balls off... meaning you could not reproduce more arch-con, right-wing gun nuts... and that would indeed be a tragedy.
Oh... and read the story below and tell me how well-trained everyone who carries a gun is. Why stop at a gun. Why not stuff a few hand grenades in your pocket as well? Better yet, why not walk into WalMart with an AK-47 over your shoulder. Yeah, I'd feel real safe with one of you "calm, collected, and mild-mannered" neo-cons from THIS venue with a loaded assault rife. Yes I would!
I swear, the more I read the posts from you arch-cons the more I'm amazed that any of you can walk and chew gum (or tobacco) at the same time.
Maybe if you guys can't get it up... somehow a gun helps? If I live to be a hundred and one, I will never figure you arch-cons out.
I hope you get your wish and that one day you can blow someone away. It's gotta be what you live for. I only hope it's not me!
CENTERVILLE — A man was wounded by shrapnel from a toilet when his concealed weapon accidentally went off while he was using the bathroom, police said.
It happened Tuesday at the Carl's Jr. restaurant at 385 N. 800 West. Police said the 26-year-old man had gone into the bathroom to use the toilet, armed with a .40-caliber Kahr P40 handgun. The man, who has a valid concealed weapon permit and was lawfully in possession of the gun, had it in a holster inside his pants.
"While pulling his pants up the gun fell out of the holster, striking the tile floor," Centerville Police Lt. Paul Child said Wednesday. "When the gun hit the floor, it went off, and the bullet struck the toilet, shattering it and sending sharp pieces of porcelain flying."
The man was hit by some porcelain shards, lacerating his arm. No one else was injured, but an employee of the restaurant in the next-door women's restroom heard the gunshot and panicked.
"She was shaken, she was upset and was complaining of some chest pain," Child said.
The man walked into the restaurant area, holding his wound and asked an employee to call 911. Police and paramedics responded to the call of shots fired inside the restaurant and ended up treating the man for the cuts to his arm. The woman also was treated at the scene.
"In this case it appears that the accident would have been prevented if the man had used a secure holster," Child said. "A good quality firearm also should not fire if it is dropped."
The man was not cited, but police took the firearm for safekeeping while they finish their investigation.
"He was shaken up. We felt it was prudent to secure the firearm," Child said. "He'll be able to have the firearm released back to him."
I read the story of how you named your publishing company. Nice story, I'm sure you could tell some stories from that time in your life.
You and I will not agree on much but I've always tried to understand the thoughts and opinions of those whose thinking is very different than mine.
I'm not trying to start an argument but would like to know where you're coming from on a number of issues.
Do you believe guns should be outlawed altogether? That is with only law enforcement and the military having guns.
Should I be allowed to hunt with the intent of putting meat on my table even when I can go to the market for food?
You may have to accept part of my argument on this question. If certain species are over populating, or are a danger to pets and livestock, do you feel like it is o.k. for hunters like myself to thin the herd to protect my pets, property, and livestock?
Would you be o.k. with concealed carry permits if the permit holder had to receive rigorous training?
Are you really a gun toting Lifetime NRA member, hunter, Christian, GOP Foundation Club member who comes on here just for kicks?
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." Charles Darwin
None of my carry handguns have safeties. Silly invention, just one more thing to complicate operation.
If you want a gun to be "safe", carry a semi-automatic and don't carry it with a shell in the pipe. You can drop that off a cliff and there will be no bang.
Most of the time I don't carry my gun with a shell in the pipe, but when in doubt I cycle in a shell (driving after dark, walking after dark, etc.). It's easy to cycle out when I get home.
I like a gun small enough to carry in my pant pocket. I really like the Keltec PF-9 and use it with a pocket holster. The gun has a very narrow profile for a 9mm and lies nice and flat. Double action only with a bobbed hammer - nothing to hang up when drawing it from your pocket.
Breaks down like a Sig - very easy to dissasemble.
Plastic grip - so very light. All in all, a great gun and less than $300.
Bob, I've never seen a gun as slim as the Keltec. Do you like it? Any FTF's with it? How many rounds do you have through it?
I mostly carry out in the open, showing all my cards, but I've thought a lot lately about a pocket gun and if the Keltic is reliable I'd consider it.
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To me that makes you a good old boy, and a patriot, not a redneck.
By the way, across the river in another town, is the home of the world famous Redneck Games.
Last edited by David C : 11-02-2009 at 12:53 AM.
Reason: Posts merged
Bob, I've never seen a gun as slim as the Keltec. Do you like it? Any FTF's with it? How many rounds do you have through it?
I mostly carry out in the open, showing all my cards, but I've thought a lot lately about a pocket gun and if the Keltic is reliable I'd consider it.
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Lee, To me that makes you a good old boy, and a patriot, not a redneck.
By the way, across the river in another town, is the home of the world famous Redneck Games.
Keltec has a cool clip that mounts on the side. (p11) looks like the clip from a pocket knife. Very light. Quick way to "Mexican carry" if the need arises. I little more secure way is between belt and jeans clipping the belt. Barrel in the change pocket. FYI
Originally Posted by Robert Barney
None of my carry handguns have safeties. Silly invention, just one more thing to complicate operation.
If you want a gun to be "safe", carry a semi-automatic and don't carry it with a shell in the pipe. You can drop that off a cliff and there will be no bang.
Most of the time I don't carry my gun with a shell in the pipe, but when in doubt I cycle in a shell (driving after dark, walking after dark, etc.). It's easy to cycle out when I get home.
I like a gun small enough to carry in my pant pocket. I really like the Keltec PF-9 and use it with a pocket holster. The gun has a very narrow profile for a 9mm and lies nice and flat. Double action only with a bobbed hammer - nothing to hang up when drawing it from your pocket.
Breaks down like a Sig - very easy to dissasemble.
Plastic grip - so very light. All in all, a great gun and less than $300.
The Kahr is twice the money.
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""..., To me that makes you a good old boy, and a patriot, not a redneck....""
Old ?- I am. A Patriot ?- I am. Redneck - Mine might be more maroon.
My Texas buddy is a California transplant, moved there a few years ago. Totally Lone Star now.
Originally Posted by David C
Bob, I've never seen a gun as slim as the Keltec. Do you like it? Any FTF's with it? How many rounds do you have through it?
I mostly carry out in the open, showing all my cards, but I've thought a lot lately about a pocket gun and if the Keltic is reliable I'd consider it.
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Wino, To me that makes you a good old boy, and a patriot, not a redneck.
By the way, across the river in another town, is the home of the world famous Redneck Games.
Last edited by WinoBlues : 11-02-2009 at 03:36 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
I have put over 100 rounds through - which they instruct is the break in period. My son shot the second magazine and had two jam - there were no jams after that.
I have small pudgy hands and I like the gun grip just fine, even without the pinky grip on the bottom of the mag. My son, son-in-law and another friend shot it and they have bigger hands and didn't like it as much. It felt perfect for me.
My previous gun was a sig p-232, a PPK knockoff. I like it but it is bulkier and is only a .380.
The PF-9 has a lonnnnnng trigger pull. Thats make it harder to shoot target wise, but any gun used in a carry/conceal situation is not one where you are going to be aiming that carefully. I usually practice at shorter distances - point and shoot.
I am aware of the clip, but really, really like the pocket holster. Here's the one that I have:
Carrying out in the open is like showing your hole cards in poker. Always keep the other guy guessing.
I think the other thing you have to think about when carrying is that the first thing to protect is your gun. It won't do you any good if the other guy gets it and it is really, really embarrassing to die by being shot with your own gun.
Last edited by Robert Barney : 11-01-2009 at 11:30 PM.
Most of the time I don't carry my gun with a shell in the pipe, but when in doubt I cycle in a shell (driving after dark, walking after dark, etc.). It's easy to cycle out when I get home.
That got me laughing. I do not carry a gun because I am scared. I don't wear seatbelts or motorcycle helmets because I am scared. These are safety equipment, and common sense suggests that if saftey equipment is available, and you know how to use it, that you take advantage of it.
Our streets are as safe as any, but they are also very dark. Common sense and statistics teach that most personal assaults happen after dark, not during broad daylight.
I'm glad I now know someone with Keltec experience, I'll consider it when I buy a deep carry gun.
Years ago a distant cousin was in the backroom of his liquor store when a would be robber grabbed the girl up front and put a knife to her throat. My cousin came out of the back, drew his weapon and tried to difuse the situation. Maybe the guy was high, I don't know, but the it went bad quickly. My cousin fired once, hitting the guy in the head, killing him.
About twenty years ago a local girl was out riding her bicycle. A truck drove by slowly, turned around, came back and ran her off the road. As she lay in the ditch he approached her. She pulled her firearm and he quickly took off.
I had two very good friends who were murdered. Had they been carrying they might still be here.
When I was a young teenager my mom started dating a guy who turned out to be an alcoholic. He came to the house late one night, drunk as he could be, banging on our back door. I pulled out my Savage 22, kneeling beside the stove, I was going to have to pop him if he broke down the door. Thankfully he left.
I will NEVER be without firearms to protect myself and my family.
Do you believe guns should be outlawed altogether? That is with only law enforcement and the military having guns.
No. I have a shot gun at home. Every Jew should own some kind of firearm for when the arch-cons come to round us up to send us to Camp Palin for a shower of Zykon-B.
Should I be allowed to hunt with the intent of putting meat on my table even when I can go to the market for food?
Yes. But not on my land. I think it is cruel and stupid, but unlike arch-cons I try not to force my values on others. If you want to hunt, so long as you obey the rules and regs, knock yourself out. Of course you want to try to avoid shooting other hunters, because when that happens it is a real tragedy.
You may have to accept part of my argument on this question. If certain species are over populating, or are a danger to pets and livestock, do you feel like it is o.k. for hunters like myself to thin the herd to protect my pets, property, and livestock?
If it is on your own land and it is just you and your family members, I'm OK with it. Otherwise, on public land I think we should have state or federal licensed trained professional hunters to do that... as opposed to a bunch of drunk yahoo rednecks trolling the woods and fields who don't know a coyote from a pet dog.
Would you be o.k. with concealed carry permits if the permit holder had to receive rigorous training?
No. I believe that only professional law enforcement officers should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. The idea of a guy like Robert Barney (but probably/mabye NOT Robert Barney) on a plane or in a WalMart or an elementary school with a loaded gun does not give me any comfort at all. The flight attendent will tell him to sit down, or the teacher will say something about his kid or a clerk might be rude to him... and he will go postal and take out a dozen innocent people.
Are you really a gun toting Lifetime NRA member, hunter, Christian, GOP Foundation Club member who comes on here just for kicks?
Carry Conceal Weapons Permits
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