Client Hospitalized with Depression 5 Yrs Ago. Any Idea's??

The Hopp · 10-09-2009, 04:35 AM

Any input anybody can provide me would be appreciated....

I have a 50 male (5'10 180lbs) client who came to me looking for term policy. Physically good and no problems today. Here's the rub. The guy was hospitalized 5 years ago for depression. Stayed 3 days. He's not really sure what led up to it and it was a one time thing. No alcohol or drugs were involved. Saw a therapist for a few months and took medication for about 5 months but got off. Never any issue since. He thinks it was just stress at the time.

Anyways he applied through another agent with State Farm, Prudential, and Transamerica and was declined by all 3.

My question is because he was hospitalized for depression is he toast on a fully underwritten product? I was thinking West Coast but I don't want to have this guy go through another exam if there is no hope (I don't have access to his previous portamed).

dgoldenz · 10-09-2009, 04:50 AM

$10 says there's something in his records talking about suicidal thoughts or possibly even an attempt. Best to ask him about it and pre-screen with multiple companies. Maybe there's something he's not telling you.

WinoBlues · 10-09-2009, 05:43 AM

I agree with dgoldenz. Something else there. Is he on disability?

West Coast would be a good try, but get all the facts first and email their Evaluation line. Protective gave us a STD w/ $1,000 flat for two years. On a similar case. They say they use the same Underwriting guide as WC. However, we have had much better luck with WC. I can see State Farm declining, but seems like Pru would have made an offer.

If you would like the West Coast eval email, PM me.

A note: I see you are here in California. If he has Kaiser be prepared for a wait for the Pychic records.

Lee

souldeux · 10-09-2009, 06:50 AM

The "not really sure what led up to it" scares me. It sounds like he's hiding something - almost certainly, like dgoldenz said, suicidal ideation or attempts.

This one needs a very, very complete fact-finder before moving forward. Does the client have a copy of any of his previous apps? Could be educational.

Winter · 10-09-2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by The Hopp

Any input anybody can provide me would be appreciated....

I have a 50 male (5'10 180lbs) client who came to me looking for term policy. Physically good and no problems today. Here's the rub. The guy was hospitalized 5 years ago for depression. Stayed 3 days. He's not really sure what led up to it and it was a one time thing. No alcohol or drugs were involved. Saw a therapist for a few months and took medication for about 5 months but got off. Never any issue since. He thinks it was just stress at the time.

Anyways he applied through another agent with State Farm, Prudential, and Transamerica and was declined by all 3.

My question is because he was hospitalized for depression is he toast on a fully underwritten product? I was thinking West Coast but I don't want to have this guy go through another exam if there is no hope (I don't have access to his previous portamed).

As others have noted, if his medical records have any hint of suicidal thoughts that works against him and cannot be undone.

The other thing, sometimes with medical conditions clients are happy about not having seen a doctor or not having taken medication for 4.5 years. However, sometimes this works against them because it may be an indication that they are not compliant or have no one to vouch for their current status based on knowledge.

I would talk to the doc's office or the carrier's underwriting and find out how to request a copy of what the doc sent to them just to see what you are up against. That would also let you shop it around a bit (ideally you are connected with a GA who can do this) without having your client jump through many more hoops unless there is a reasonable chance. My thoughts anyway.

al3 · 10-09-2009, 07:26 PM

Two years ago I wrote a 36 year old woman who had tried to kill herself because of depression 6 years before... twice. She has been on meds (several of them) and stable since. West Coast took her on table D. She was happy as hell to get the coverage... to take care of her horse if she died (her mom was bene.)

Al

The Hopp · 10-10-2009, 10:24 PM

Thanks for the advice. This client is in Michigan so I don't have to worry about Kaiser.
My thoughts exactly on the suicide but he stated 'no.' I'm wondering if West Coast will look negatively on the prior declines.
Would he have luck if I was able to talk them into a simplified issue whole life policy with Americo (or similar company)? Depression isn't a health question.

souldeux · 10-10-2009, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by The Hopp

Thanks for the advice. This client is in Michigan so I don't have to worry about Kaiser.
My thoughts exactly on the suicide but he stated 'no.' I'm wondering if West Coast will look negatively on the prior declines.
Would he have luck if I was able to talk them into a simplified issue whole life policy with Americo (or similar company)? Depression isn't a health question.

A note in the MIB showing a decline doesn't automatically mean you're done for, but it does mean you're going to have your app gone through with a fine-toothed comb. I would take these details and call WCL's underwriting department, or have your GA do the same. Take a complete fact-finder, present every salient fact to them and let them guide you. You can be assured that with a previous decline they're going to dig, so it becomes extra-important to shop and prescreen thoroughly.

WinoBlues · 10-10-2009, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by The Hopp

Thanks for the advice. This client is in Michigan so I don't have to worry about Kaiser.
My thoughts exactly on the suicide but he stated 'no.' I'm wondering if West Coast will look negatively on the prior declines.
Would he have luck if I was able to talk them into a simplified issue whole life policy with Americo (or similar company)? Depression isn't a health question.

Here is the Line from the underwritting guide for Americo >>[COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746]Depression:[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746]Major with no hospitalizations within 3years, no more than 2 medications - Underwritten products =Table 2 and up APS - the HMS =Usually acceptable[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746]Otherwise or with alcohol abuse and/or narcotic pain medications.Decline Decline Decline<<[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746]$100,000 of term-20 of Americo is only $78.66 PAC, Less than a tbl4 w/WC. 30yr is $115.90PAC. - UHL does not ask the question. Their ROP is 20yr= $108.55 30yr=$153.12 [/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746]Personally I would find out if he thinks he will want or be able to pay the premiums past 20 yrs. Then do a side by side. UHL has a cool little app that shows the ROP and the Reduced Paid Up. I like the RPU myself. [/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#0d2746]I would go the SI term route. Get him insured. Then if he wants to jump thru the hoops underwrite him. Bet he won't. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746]If I can be of help PM or Email me.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746][COLOR=#0d2746]Lee[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#0d2746]

[/COLOR]