Closers versus Insurance Salespersons ???

moonlightandmargaritas · 03-30-2008, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by healthagent

Why not just do it all - customer service is minimal and renewals rock.

Because "coffee is for closers...."

Btw-where's Mitch & Murray?

myinsurebiz · 03-30-2008, 04:09 PM

" I am with you, not only not legal, but who's E&O is going to pick up the mistakes made by the guy who can sell anything? "

Please share with us the source that dictates this concept is "illegal" if using licensed insurance agents? Thanks!

John - " Why not just do it all - customer service is minimal and renewals rock. "

I am not interested in just selling myself and limiting myself to $100k / $200k a year. I want to create wealth. To do this - I need massive volume and can't do it myself - I need a team.

Seems the best way to build a strong team and do it quickly - is utilizing the sub agent concept. It's not like I'm inventing anything new. Sub Agents have been around longer than I've been alive.

So - my goal is to attract licensed insurance agents that are appointed in various States, and that are appointed with various carriers.

Then we train the sub agents on the various products, gather a profile sheet on the prospective client - ie: what they want, what they have, their present health conditions, etc and post this info within our intranet so the appropriate writing agents can advise the sub agent on the best plan for that specific client. The sub agent can then approach the client with a proposal and close the deal.

Once paperwork is complete, the sub agent forwards such to their respective writing agent for their review and follow up. If it makes sense for the client - the deal is done. If not - back to square one.

Tom

healthagent · 03-30-2008, 04:16 PM

Sounds to me like you just need to start an agency. But if all you're after is just wealth I'd imagine there are much more lucrative markets for true closers than insurance.

Dave020 · 03-30-2008, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by myinsurebiz

" I can't imagine this being legal in any state. I know it's not legal in California. "

Please show me the statues that prevents one licensed agent sharing their commissions with another licensed agent.

If it is - then so be it - but, I can't seem to find any legalese that pertains to this matter.

Tom

In California, what you are describing is called being a "broker". California does not allow brokers to be appointed with any carrier and may not recommend any specific carrier's product. A fee must be charged in lieu (with health insurance that would be in addition) to any commissions paid by a carrier and the broker is strictly prohibited from receiving any commission from that carrier or carrier's agent .

Additionally, "brokers" may not receive an payments from anyone in regards to the sale of an insurance product except for the fee charged to the buying party, and must be licensed as a "broker" (it is a separate license here) and must post a bond with the State of California.

somarco · 03-30-2008, 04:31 PM

The writing agent still has to review the deal

The WA was not present at the pitch. They have no way of knowing what was said, what materials were used.

No respectable agent would ever sign on for such a deal.

Of course there are a lot of bozo agents that would probably jump at the chance to pick up some "free" money.

And Paul . . . I can see you are distracted. Just how many times have you watched Glengarry Glen Ross? You sound like those guys who used to watch Wall Street and quote Michael Douglas (Gordon Gecko) in almost every scene.

myinsurebiz · 03-30-2008, 04:32 PM

So Dave - in California, two agents that work on the same deal can't share the commissions?

Or - can an agent not refer a client to another agent and receive a referral fee or charge the writing agent for the lead?

That may be actually the way to go. Just charge the writing agent a substantial fee for a lead that is basically pre-closed.

Tom

Dave020 · 03-30-2008, 04:33 PM

Carriers in California require any splitting or sharing of commission to be recorded on the application with a primary agent and sub-agent disclosure. Failure to do so and rebaiting any commission $$ to a non-appointed agent is grounds for contract termination in addition to reporting to DOI and potential loss of license for the agents involved.

Really, it's a dumb idea and quite prohibited in California.

Dave020 · 03-30-2008, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by myinsurebiz

So Dave - in California, two agents that work on the same deal can't share the commissions?

Of course they can, as long as both agents are appointed with the insurance carrier and niether agent is licensed as a "broker".

Originally Posted by myinsurebiz

Or - can an agent not refer a client to another agent and receive a referral fee or charge the writing agent for the lead?

As long as the agent is licensed and appointed, this can be done. It is specifically prohibited between appointed agents and "brokers". Broker must charge a fee or be in license violation in California.

Originally Posted by myinsurebiz

That may be actually the way to go. Just charge the writing agent a substantial fee for a lead that is basically pre-closed.

Who would pay it? It could theoretically work that way, but how much would an agent pay to sell a family and HSA plan??

Tom[/quote]

myinsurebiz · 03-30-2008, 04:37 PM

Bob -

Here in Georgia, we will just utilize the sub-agent licensing for instate sales.

I will check tomorrow on surrounding States to see if they have a "sub-agent" license. If so - this is the way to go.

After a few phone calls today from forum members - if we can't use "sub agents" in a certain State, then providing the Writing Agent with a pre-closed lead for a certain fee seems to be legit.

Tom

moonlightandmargaritas · 03-30-2008, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by myinsurebiz

I will check tomorrow on surrounding States to see if they have a "sub-agent" license. If so - this is the way to go.

Don't waste your time in Florida - there's no such thing.

In order to get to the point where you'd like to be with your "pre-closed" lead, your "pre-closers" need to have a Florida license.

I'm sure you could probably get away with it until...

Somebody like me finds out about it and goes right to Tallahassee (lots of valuable contacts!), or one of your "partner" agents gets pissed off and drops a dime on ya.

Sorry, insurance is not a good vehicle for your lofty wealth ambitions, it is get rich "slow" (but lasting).

Maybe real estate schemes, or perhaps drug dealing would be a better (albeit riskier) alternative...

Dave020 · 03-30-2008, 04:54 PM

The premise of agent as advisor is based on service. The health insurance industry pays commission based on ongoing service. A percentage of each premium dollar paid as incentive to keep your client on the books and insured.

This whole idea flies in the face of what an agent is supposed to be or do. I see they are doing a bang-up job with pre-licensing courses in GA these days.

Wow, I am saddened today to see where our industry is headed.

Bob_The_Insurance_Guy · 03-30-2008, 05:00 PM

From your very first three words, my suggestion is to get out of the business, and let a professional take it on. You are a closer, which means you care nothing about those to whom you offer the service.

Go back to the magazine or Tahitian Noni industry.

moonlightandmargaritas · 03-30-2008, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by myinsurebiz

So Dave - in California, two agents that work on the same deal can't share the commissions?

Tom, fwiw, I have never known a true professional in this business that referred to any client transactions as "deals". We're not really Monty Hall...

Hopefully, we are professionals providing advice and help to clients (and earning a living, hopefully a good one) on critical issues having to do with their financial security.

This is NOT car sales, siding, sellin' 'em high speed internet, etc. Those are "deals" that are done by salespeople.

Many of us work very hard to raise the professionalism of this business. Do you suppose an attorney, accountant, or physician refers to them as "deals"?

moonlightandmargaritas · 03-30-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by somarco

You sound like those guys who used to watch Wall Street and quote Michael Douglas (Gordon Gecko) in almost every scene.

Gee bv, the only one I can think of is "greed is good". Haven't seen it in a longggggg time...who was the "kid" - Charlie Sheen or his brother Emilio Estevez?

Come to think of it though, he did get Catherine Zeta Jones...

emg35 · 03-30-2008, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Bob_The_Insurance_Guy

From your very first three words, my suggestion is to get out of the business, and let a professional take it on. You are a closer, which means you care nothing about those to whom you offer the service.

Go back to the magazine or Tahitian Noni industry.

Very well said

moonlightandmargaritas · 03-30-2008, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Bob_The_Insurance_Guy

Tahitian Noni industry.

Color me ignorant, but what the hell is this?

A new kind of health plan? Are they admitted in Florida?

Dave020 · 03-30-2008, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by moonlightandmargaritas

Gee bv, the only one I can think of is "greed is good". Haven't seen it in a longggggg time...who was the "kid" - Charlie Sheen or his brother Emilio Estevez?

Come to think of it though, he did get Catherine Zeta Jones...

Charlie Sheen along with his dad, Martin. Emelio was doing another brat packer at the time LOL

Newby · 03-30-2008, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by moonlightandmargaritas

"See this watch? It costs more than the car you drive."

A B C !!!
A= Always
B= Be
C= Closing

Always be Closing! ALWAYS...be closing!!!

Best work Alec Baldwin has ever done.

WIN · 03-30-2008, 07:10 PM

The only person that wants to be a "closer" is someone that either can't get a license or can't get appointed.

Anyone else got an good reasons one would chose this imaginary position.

Expat · 03-30-2008, 07:38 PM

Far too dangerous to sign off on one of these "Closed Deals".
It leaves the door wide open for misrepresentation, clean sheeting, lying, on the application and to the client and all kinds of mayhem.
Down the road, in the not too distant future, I forsee being fired, loss of license, renewals and maybe even criminal charges.
Also any policy recissions, and a law suit may follow.
All in all, far too dangerous.