Closers versus Insurance Salespersons ???

myinsurebiz · 03-30-2008, 02:24 PM

Here's the deal:

I am a closer - a salesman that can sell water to a drowning man - BUT - I'm not an "insurance" salesman and frankly don't want to have the headaches of getting appointed by the different companies, get certified with all the different companies, etc.

I or we ( the team I'm developing ) just want to sell and close the deals.

STIbroker showed me how to use ehealthinsurance to quote deals and such - but, we really don't care to get appointed with the hundreds of carriers - we just want to sell.

I have an idea of doing all the work, closing the deal and then forwarding the deal to a partner agent to sign off on it.

We are willing to give the "writing" agent 25% of the commissions created - or should I way - we are willing to do the work for 75% of the commission.

Writing agent will be responsible for oversight, training, accounting and servicing the client post sale. Any additional business provided us by the client in the future is split 75%/25% if we sell it or 25%/75% if the writing agent does.

We can get our closers licensed in certain states or even nationwide. Here in Georgia - we can utilize licensed "sub-agents" to handle the sales - without them having to test and such.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Tom

Winter · 03-30-2008, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by myinsurebiz

Here's the deal:

I am a closer - a salesman that can sell water to a drowning man - BUT - I'm not an "insurance" salesman and frankly don't want to have the headaches of getting appointed by the different companies, get certified with all the different companies, etc.

I or we ( the team I'm developing ) just want to sell and close the deals.

STIbroker showed me how to use ehealthinsurance to quote deals and such - but, we really don't care to get appointed with the hundreds of carriers - we just want to sell.

I have an idea of doing all the work, closing the deal and then forwarding the deal to a partner agent to sign off on it.

We are willing to give the "writing" agent 25% of the commissions created - or should I way - we are willing to do the work for 75% of the commission.

Writing agent will be responsible for oversight, training, accounting and servicing the client post sale. Any additional business provided us by the client in the future is split 75%/25% if we sell it or 25%/75% if the writing agent does.

We can get our closers licensed in certain states or even nationwide. Here in Georgia - we can utilize licensed "sub-agents" to handle the sales - without them having to test and such.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Tom

It sounds over the edge to me if you are closing them on a specific product and are just having an agent sign the app. If the client relies on your representations as part of his decision to buy and then you are compensated for it then you are acting as agent for that carrier and need to be appointed in my view. Also, how do you split commissions without being appointed with the same carriers as the writing agent.

Could be answers to these factors but they are what come to mind in a quick read.

Winter

susieQ · 03-30-2008, 03:03 PM

Which health carriers allow for a split on an application? I've done it on life cases but not health.

susieQ · 03-30-2008, 03:04 PM

Why not get appointed with them yourself and then hire someone at $10 an hour to do the followup. More commission for you???

insuremojo · 03-30-2008, 03:11 PM

I see potential E&O problems. Not trying to say you're selling unethically but what licensed agent would feel comfortable doing this?

myinsurebiz · 03-30-2008, 03:25 PM

Think of it as selling a "lead" that is already closed.

Here in Georgia, a person can be a sub-agent and assist a licensed agent in promoting their agency.

I've read a few carrier contracts - and can't find anything that says an appointed agent can't have "assistance" in closing the deal.

Each one of our closers will be licensed insurance agents in the States they wish to work in and each one will have their own E&O.

This seems to me to be no different than an agency that utilizes in-house administrative assistants to answer client questions and such.

However - I appreciate the comments. Thus my reason for posting.

Tom

moonlightandmargaritas · 03-30-2008, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by myinsurebiz

Here's the deal:

I am a closer - a salesman that can sell water to a drowning man - BUT - I'm not an "insurance" salesman and frankly don't want to have the headaches of getting appointed by the different companies, get certified with all the different companies, etc.

I or we ( the team I'm developing ) just want to sell and close the deals.

STIbroker showed me how to use ehealthinsurance to quote deals and such - but, we really don't care to get appointed with the hundreds of carriers - we just want to sell.

I have an idea of doing all the work, closing the deal and then forwarding the deal to a partner agent to sign off on it.

We are willing to give the "writing" agent 25% of the commissions created - or should I way - we are willing to do the work for 75% of the commission.

Writing agent will be responsible for oversight, training, accounting and servicing the client post sale. Any additional business provided us by the client in the future is split 75%/25% if we sell it or 25%/75% if the writing agent does.

We can get our closers licensed in certain states or even nationwide. Here in Georgia - we can utilize licensed "sub-agents" to handle the sales - without them having to test and such.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Tom

Tom,

Since you asked for it...

As a seventeen year veteran of this business who has been blessed enough to evolve into a successful independent practice of my own, you quite frankly, strike me as a huckster who is better suited to used cars or perhaps as a "tin man", selling window and siding jobs.

Perhaps you should quit watching "Boiler Room".

I've lost count of the number of your ilk I've seen come and go over the years. To be successful for the long-term, this is NOT about "selling & closing" - it's about a longer term perspective called "advising". Your approach may be successful for some short term profits - but it'll never last. I've seen it time and time again...

First of all, it's illegal (at least in the State of Florida).In order to advise folks on this level you're suggesting, you (and your "team") must be LICENSED. Not just the person who "signs off on it". The first time I found this arrangement that you suggest, I would have a letter fired off to the Florida Department of Insurance, the Insurance Commissioner, and an investigation started before the business day was over.

Is it really that you don't want to get licensed and appointed, or you CAN'T get licensed and appointed?

I personally love to see people like you come into the business with your manipulative "selling & closing" model. It makes it much easier for me when I come in behind with my "client-building" model.

Chasing money may work in the short term - but only doing the best thing for the client - without regard for your financial reward - gets you the most money in the LONG-TERM.

It's called professionalism.

myinsurebiz · 03-30-2008, 03:44 PM

" Also, how do you split commissions without being appointed with the same carriers as the writing agent. "

In my thinking - the agent would receive the commission and pay us a "closing" fee which would be 75% of the earned commission and any renewals.

The "writing" agent basically receives a book of business that he / she wouldn't have gotten without our help.

The advantage for our closers is they could focus on selling rather than having to worry about all the paperwork and such . . .

Now - if there are regulations that make this concept impossible - then I guess we won't be able to do it.

But - I envision us having a licensed agent for each carrier in each State. They can be all the same person - I don't care, as long as they are appointed and pay us.

If the writing agent doesn't pay us - we'll send one of our "boys" by to say hello and then find another writing agent.

Like I said - I can't find any legalese in the various contracts that makes this concept unacceptable.

Tom

somarco · 03-30-2008, 03:45 PM

Perhaps you should quit watching "Boiler Room".

Or Glengarry Glen Ross, or Tin Men . . .

This is an E&O claim waiting to happen.

healthagent · 03-30-2008, 03:47 PM

Too much liability for the agent. The way the plan is explained creates liability. No real career agent would ever take that offer.

Health insurance, also, does not need to be "sold."

moonlightandmargaritas · 03-30-2008, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by somarco

Or Glengarry Glen Ross

Most of these yahoos don't realize that this is a dark comedy. They think it's a training video.

"We've got to have the GOOD leads..."

healthagent · 03-30-2008, 04:00 PM

Third place is "you're fired."

moonlightandmargaritas · 03-30-2008, 04:02 PM

"See this watch? It costs more than the car you drive."

myinsurebiz · 03-30-2008, 04:04 PM

" As a seventeen year veteran of this business who has been blessed enough to evolve into a successful independent practice of my own, you quite frankly, strike me as a huckster who is better suited to used cars or perhaps as a "tin man", selling window and siding jobs. "

Why? Because I offer a different approach to insurance? It's not like agents aren't in it for the money themselves?

" I've lost count of the number of your ilk I've seen come and go over the years. To be successful for the long-term, this is NOT about "selling & closing" - it's about a longer term perspective called "advising". Your approach may be successful for some short term profits - but it'll never last. I've seen it time and time again... "

My "ilk"? I'm just a simple salesman that stumbled into the insurance business and have come to realize that I can create millions by utilizing the efforts of others instead of going it alone. Long term is still there with us getting the majority of the commission.

" First of all, it's illegal (at least in the State of Florida).In order to advise folks on this level you're suggesting, you (and your "team") must be LICENSED. Not just the person who "signs off on it". The first time I found this arrangement that you suggest, I would have a letter fired off to the Florida Department of Insurance, the Insurance Commissioner, and an investigation started before the business day was over. "

Do you even read what people post? All of our closers will be licensed insurance agents or at the minimum - licensed sub agents.

" Is it really that you don't want to get licensed and appointed, or you CAN'T get licensed and appointed? "

I am already licensed. The point is - why have everyone appointed by the same carriers - when we can just get those that are already appointed to assist in the sale and care of the client?

" I personally love to see people like you come into the business with your manipulative "selling & closing" model. It makes it much easier for me when I come in behind with my "client-building" model. "

If you can take the client from us - then we didn't do a good enough job of closing the sale and selling ourselves. In addition to the insurance - our clients will have available to them many "value added" services / products. So - if we take care of the client and give them the best deal they can find in their market - good luck with that . . .

" Chasing money may work in the short term - but only doing the best thing for the client - without regard for your financial reward - gets you the most money in the LONG-TERM. "

Nobody ever said we weren't "doing the best thing" for the client. Actually - this is the reason for utilizing a variety of appointed agents so that we CAN give the client the best deal.

Now - if we weren't licensed agents - I would agree with you.

Tom

myinsurebiz · 03-30-2008, 04:08 PM

" This is an E&O claim waiting to happen. "

Why?

The writing agent still has to review the deal, call the client and go over the deal and submit the paperwork.

How is this any different than an agency? A person creates the lead, explains the various plans, gets a purchase commitment and turns it over to the writing agent. Where are the errors and where are the omissions?

Just curious. Good stuff guys - keep it coming.

Tom

emg35 · 03-30-2008, 04:08 PM

I can't imagine this being legal in any state. I know it's not legal in California.

rapidrobert · 03-30-2008, 04:11 PM

Sounds like a NASE mentality to me. Not to mention that "sending one of the boys by to say hello," sounds a bit like the mafia to me. Maybe some of his boys will do a "Boondock Saints" on YOUR boys.

myinsurebiz · 03-30-2008, 04:14 PM

" I can't imagine this being legal in any state. I know it's not legal in California. "

Please show me the statues that prevents one licensed agent sharing their commissions with another licensed agent.

If it is - then so be it - but, I can't seem to find any legalese that pertains to this matter.

Tom

tentel · 03-30-2008, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by emg35

I can't imagine this being legal in any state. I know it's not legal in California.

I am with you, not only not legal, but who's E&O is going to pick up the mistakes made by the guy who can sell anything? I can't imagine the E&O policies in force at any ageny covering this. Not to mention who is going to pay for the CSR and the E&O coverage and all the other costs for 25% of the com.?

healthagent · 03-30-2008, 04:18 PM

Why not just do it all - customer service is minimal and renewals rock.