How can CMS expect us to be held accountable when they can't meet a deadline?
I heard CMS has ruled that the calendar must be rolled back two weeks....
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To be truly independent, an agent should not be dependent on a government bureaucrat for contracts or commissions.
Rep Pete Starke D Calif. maybe wants to use illegal immigrants to sign up MA enrollees.They will do it for 20.00 and no renewals !
Perhaps this whole thing could be subcontracted to Acorn. They already get a quarter of their budget from the feds which they use to enroll Obama voters.
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Originally Posted by The Hunter
I personally would not choose abortion for my wife or children with a few exceptions.
You don't have anything to say about it. Under the current lib laws, you have no choice to make. Your wife or children dont need to consult you.
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What do you guys honestly expect to get out of this MA mess. Perhaps I am getting a little uppity because I decided to stay out of it this year but it was based on the reality of circumstances that are what they are. It is a complete mess. It will be late december before much of it is sorted out and by then the horror stories will be rampant about all the ways that agents have yet again failed the world in the eyes of CMS and others. Then there are only three months left after that until March31 and then the cycle begins all over again to see what next years f-up is going to be and plenty, plenty of hoopla about congress and Obama torpedoeing the whole thing mixed in with it.
Why the hell dont you just put a tee shirt on that says "kick me" and stand out on the street.
Also, these plans are getting shlockier and shlockier as the subsidies are being cut and the premiums being raised. However, more and more clients have passed the point of no return as far as being able to go back to their med supp guaranteed issue. Not good. Even if MA's survive in some form, you are going to have all these clients down the road who are paying only slightly less than they would for a supp when all the subsidies are eventually cut, yet they have a 3000-5000 MOP and need a software program to tell what is covered and what isnt and network this and network that and if the doctor accepts the plan on even number days in leap years. And, you need to learn sign language or semaphore to know how to communicate with the client. CMS says you have to drive by their house and wave a yellow flag and if they are willing to communicate with you they wave a flag back and that means that you can come by in 48 hours. But you have to guess in advance which plan is right for them because if you discover that another plan is more suitable then you have go out to the car again and drive around the block and wave the flag again and then they come out and then you come back in 48 hours and so it goes...........
------------------------------------ Spending Our Way to Prosperity
Last edited by Winter : 10-31-2008 at 11:39 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I don't agree with al3 or Winter... I'm too stubborn to give up. I worked for 33 years in a job where I had to deal with the FAA, a labor-denigrating managed company, and a hard-headed union. At least in this business I don't have to deal with union politics.
I'm glad I stayed out of the MA mess that is in Missouri. The sad thing is that there are just enough folks in the MA plans in the rural areas that hardly use the plan so they assume everything is great. They tell one of my clients and I have to defend my decision to not market an unstable product to them. Last year I lost eight clients out of 400+ medicare supplement insureds. Not bad. If can deal with that loss ratio.
Most of my clients are in rural areas. Most of the MA plans offered in these areas are "bottom of the barrel" plans IMO. Higher premiums and higher OOPs make them very easy to sell against if/when I need to.
I agree with Frank. Everything was great before the PFFS crap hit the walls. Every spring I get so sick of trying to reverse what some fly-by-night college kid, retired corp. flunky, or housewife, has done to a client or referal. Most of the time I earn a new client out of it, but the lack of ethics for doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do drives me nuts. The right thing to do is "KNOW WHAT THE HECK YOUR TALKING ABOUT". Without doubt these morons practices of putting their greed in front of a clients need has hurt us all.
And as far as the/a government being able to tell businesses what they can or can't do. What about the GI law in Missouri? There is no difference there. That law does very little for the clients. I live close to the Kansas line and my KS book of business is what I call my Ronco book... "Set it and forget it." Very low rate increases. Of course there is the fact that if someone gets sick they are stuck on the plan they bought. MedSupps in MO barely have a two year track record before they take some serious increases and they start out higher initially due to that law. IMO that law needs to be amended to have a 25% premium differential or a once every three year clause in it.
I don't agree with al3 or Winter... I'm too stubborn to give up. I worked for 33 years in a job where I had to deal with the FAA, a labor-denigrating managed company, and a hard-headed union. At least in this business I don't have to deal with union politics.
I admire your determination.
I think the big difference in what you were doing and trying to navigate the CMS maze is that when you were a pilot you were receiving a salary. With trying to market MA plans, if you don't make a sale today you "don't get to eat dinner tonight".
I am not going to mess with it simply because in the time it takes to jump through all of the hoops and satisfy the multitude of rules and regs I can sell several Med Supps. I know what I will be paid and I know my new client is going to be happy with the coverage.
I don't deal with Medicaid people. The prospects I call on are more than capable of paying for a Medicare Supplement policy and want the kind of coverage a Med Supp provides. Not all seniors are poor and broke as some agents would have us believe.
I also know that I'm not putting my insurance license as risk when I call and/or go see a prospect. If my prospect says they want a PFFS plan then I will suggest that they contact another agent.
Want the referrals? If so I will have "my team of attorneys" contact your attorneys and schedule a meeting and let them figure out what needs to be done to keey "big brother" happy.
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Medicare Supplement Sales Training and Coaching.
"The Perfect Contact Management Program (CMP) for the Insurance Professional" www.YourInsuranceOffice.com
877.633.0808
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Every spring I get so sick of trying to reverse what some fly-by-night college kid, retired corp. flunky, or housewife, has done to a client or referal...
I understand your frustration. I sell both Med Sups and MAs, and am not a one-trick pony. I offer my clients the plan best suited for their needs, and I will be quick to say that the Med Sups are hard to beat for those that can qualify and afford them. They should be the first policy to consider.
I do take umbrage at your myopic view of the problem agents. If only these problematic agents had a college education! The ones I have come across are poorly educated and because of that can't understand the regulations, let alone have the drive to study them. They are helped along by carriers that lower the required test difficulty to a grade school level so they can pass. I think this is the largest category of unprofessional agents.
I don't know where you get the idea that any "retired corporation flunky" would be in this business. Maybe so. With the economy in the toilet, there will be many more retirees that will have to return to the workforce, and some of them former corporate managers. I think this is a blind lash out against your former peers. Who might you be thinking of? Perhaps you have an axe to grind.
As for "housewives"... well, I'll let the female agents on this forum deal with you on that!
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Retired corp. flunky = someone that couldn't or didn't make it working for a corporation so now they are desperate and willing to take adantage to any and every situation to make a buck.
College kid = has no desire to stay in the business, will change his phone number in April, also willing to do anything it takes to get the signature. This kid is sitting down across from Mr/Mrs Jones and cares about one thing.. the $300-500 price tag hanging from their nose.
Housewife = I didn't say female career agent like those most likely in this forum. I mean some gal with NO experience beyond buying her own auto insurance from her American Family agent. Actually this reference came from a lady I met in Appleton City, MO. I saw a Today's Option brochure on her car seat when I got out of my car. She was exiting the store so I introduced myself. Long story short... she just started, no experience, would return to being a full time wife/mother in April. From our conversation I got that making a few thousand bucks in a few months was all she's interested in.
I think the big difference in what you were doing and trying to navigate the CMS maze is that when you were a pilot you were receiving a salary. With trying to market MA plans, if you don't make a sale today you "don't get to eat dinner tonight".
I am not going to mess with it simply because in the time it takes to jump through all of the hoops and satisfy the multitude of rules and regs I can sell several Med Supps. I know what I will be paid and I know my new client is going to be happy with the coverage.
I don't deal with Medicaid people. The prospects I call on are more than capable of paying for a Medicare Supplement policy and want the kind of coverage a Med Supp provides. Not all seniors are poor and broke as some agents would have us believe.
I also know that I'm not putting my insurance license as risk when I call and/or go see a prospect. If my prospect says they want a PFFS plan then I will suggest that they contact another agent.
Want the referrals? If so I will have "my team of attorneys" contact your attorneys and schedule a meeting and let them figure out what needs to be done to keey "big brother" happy.
I understand your point of view, Frank. However, I have a different take on what I am trying to accomplish. As a retiree, I am trying to return something to the community. I don't mind helping the poorer members that may be on Medicaid. For what it is worth, there are some very nice people on Medicaid, and I can see the value of the social safety net we provide for them. Then there are those that are deadbeats, on the dole their whole life with no ambition. I sometimes would like to give them a kick in the ***.
Regardless, I give them my best effort. I just spent the better part of a day last week helping a disabled lady in Odessa on SSDI aging into Medicare. She didn't have a clue what the difference was between SSDI and SS retirement, so I educated her on that.
Furthermore, she thought that now she was qualifying for Medicare, she would lose her Medicaid. She told me that "You can't have both", because that's what she was told. I had to explain to her that she indeed could be dual qualified, but that taking an MA plan (which she had asked for) would cause her to increase her financial liabilities in co-pays because there were no co-ordinated MA plans available in her service area. I told her to just stay put and she would be fine.
You see... I am out there with a purpose. I may not always make a sale, but I am always successful.
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Originally Posted by G.Gordon
Ok.. clarification.
Retired corp. flunky = someone that couldn't or didn't make it working for a corporation so now they are desperate and willing to take adantage to any and every situation to make a buck.
College kid = has no desire to stay in the business, will change his phone number in April, also willing to do anything it takes to get the signature. This kid is sitting down across from Mr/Mrs Jones and cares about one thing.. the $300-500 price tag hanging from their nose.
Housewife = I didn't say female career agent like those most likely in this forum. I mean some gal with NO experience beyond buying her own auto insurance from her American Family agent. Actually this reference came from a lady I met in Appleton City, MO. I saw a Today's Option brochure on her car seat when I got out of my car. She was exiting the store so I introduced myself. Long story short... she just started, no experience, would return to being a full time wife/mother in April. From our conversation I got that making a few thousand bucks in a few months was all she's interested in.
I get your drift... and I agree with your assessment of those definitions. I think you might do well to refrain from painting with a broad brush, though. There are, indeed, unprincipled among us from all segments of society.
My point is that the largest population of unprofessional agents are illiterate, not that there aren't highly educated crooks.
As a matter of fact, you can take a prison inmate, give him an education, and on release he will more than likely be just a smarter crook. It is what is in a man's character that drives his behavior.
Last edited by retread : 11-01-2008 at 11:26 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I understand your point of view, Frank. However, I have a different take on what I am trying to accomplish. As a retiree, I am trying to return something to the community. I don't mind helping the poorer members that may be on Medicaid. For what it is worth, there are some very nice people on Medicaid, and I can see the value of the social safety net we provide for them. Then there are those that are deadbeats, on the dole their whole life with no ambition. I sometimes would like to give them a kick in the ***.
Regardless, I give them my best effort. I just spent the better part of a day last week helping a disabled lady in Odessa on SSDI aging into Medicare. She didn't have a clue what the difference was between SSDI and SS retirement, so I educated her on that.
Furthermore, she thought that now she was qualifying for Medicare, she would lose her Medicaid. She told me that "You can't have both", because that's what she was told. I had to explain to her that she indeed could be dual qualified, but that taking an MA plan (which she had asked for) would cause her to increase her financial liabilities in co-pays because there were no co-ordinated MA plans available in her service area. I told her to just stay put and she would be fine.
You see... I am out there with a purpose. I may not always make a sale, but I am always successful.
Ed,
I think you misunderstood what I said. I was not putting down people on Medicaid nor saying that I didn't want to deal with them or that they weren't "very nice people". I just don't have them in my Prospects database.
The lists I purchase have income parameters and as a result I don't get names of people who are on Medicaid.
I live and work in the country. I don't have large areas where most of the people are on Medicaid like there are in St. Louis and KC. I would have to go searching for people who are on Medicaid or order a special list with totally different income requirements.
I only sell Med Supps and people on Medicaid are not viable prospects for me. I refuse to sell PFFS plans for a multitude of reasons. That only leaves the option of offering Med Supps in the areas I work.
I think your efforts to help those who are less fortunate are admirable. Some times I also spend a substantial amount of time helping a prospect and don't make a sale. It is what professional, career agents do.
I think you misunderstood what I said. I was not putting down people on Medicaid nor saying that I didn't want to deal with them or that they weren't "very nice people". I just don't have them in my Prospects database.
I apologize, Frank.... I think I am just sensitive to so many put downs about what I do. I even had a sales manager of one of my carriers (with a dual-eligible plan, no less!) ask me why in the world did I even bother with them.
I apologize, Frank.... I think I am just sensitive to so many put downs about what I do. I even had a sales manager of one of my carriers (with a dual-eligible plan, no less!) ask me why in the world did I even bother with them.
Thanks. Not a problem, it is so easy to misinterpret what someone has typed as opposed to what they actually say.
I think there would be less disagreements on the board if that didn't happen so often but it always is a hazard when one types as opposed to speaking.
You never have to apologize to me. I know who you are and how important ethics are to you. I just didn't want you to think that I was putting Medicaid people or you down for giving of your time to work with them.
I do take umbrage at your myopic view of the problem agents. If only these problematic agents had a college education! The ones I have come across are poorly educated and because of that can't understand the regulations, let alone have the drive to study them. They are helped along by carriers that lower the required test difficulty to a grade school level so they can pass. I think this is the largest category of unprofessional agents.
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Umm. I don't know. That is true where it is true. The disatisfaction or problems with agents in regard to MA's cannot be dismissed though as just unprofessional types. A highly competent, highly professional, and highly compliant agent can take a look at MA's and say "I have no frigging idea what the rules are or are going to be or will be interpretted to mean and as consciencious as I may want to be, I may still get caught in a trick process where whatever I do will ultimately be determined to be not allowable." Good agents try to avoid that kind of entrapment or gravitate toward parts of the industry that are not toxic. I dont doubt that if someone wants to make a personal challenge out of figuring it all out and spend months out of every year analyzing what the heck is coming down the pike that they can make it work. We are already getting into AEP and significant issues remain unanswered. By the time those are figured out, we will be into figuring out what the election means for MA's and then there will be a whole new round of CMS rules and interpretations to punish agents for screwing up this season.
Umm. I don't know. That is true where it is true. The disatisfaction or problems with agents in regard to MA's cannot be dismissed though as just unprofessional types. A highly competent, highly professional, and highly compliant agent can take a look at MA's and say "I have no frigging idea what the rules are or are going to be or will be interpretted to mean and as consciencious as I may want to be, I may still get caught in a trick process where whatever I do will ultimately be determined to be not allowable." Good agents try to avoid that kind of entrapment or gravitate toward parts of the industry that are not toxic. I dont doubt that if someone wants to make a personal challenge out of figuring it all out and spend months out of every year analyzing what the heck is coming down the pike that they can make it work. We are already getting into AEP and significant issues remain unanswered. By the time those are figured out, we will be into figuring out what the election means for MA's and then there will be a whole new round of CMS rules and interpretations to punish agents for screwing up this season.
I can't disagree with this argument one bit. My point, however, is that MOST of the problems lie with the poorly educated agents, and my beef is that no one presses this issue. FMOs are too eager to recruit whatever walks in the door, and carriers are too eager for sales to make certification tough enough to weed out the weak.
Re: CMS asked to cap commissions
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