I spoke with 5 prospects today about MA plans without a recording. While I did not set an appointment yet (because it's about a month before I can do any enrollments), had one of them wanted to see me on 11/15, I would have been happy to schedule the appointment.
I doubt that 1 in 25 agents will be recording the calls and I don't intend to even try. If CMS wants us out of business, then they should make it illegal for us to sell the plans. Otherwise, all this bullshit is really restraint of trade. (Don't get me started on the 48 hour rule).
Do any of you feel otherwise and how do you intend to be in compliance?
Rick
------------------------------------ ILIAA
Training, Community, Support, and Success Independent Life Insurance Agents Assn rick@iliaa.org
I spoke with 5 prospects today about MA plans without a recording. While I did not set an appointment yet (because it's about a month before I can do any enrollments), had one of them wanted to see me on 11/15, I would have been happy to schedule the appointment.
I doubt that 1 in 25 agents will be recording the calls and I don't intend to even try. If CMS wants us out of business, then they should make it illegal for us to sell the plans. Otherwise, all this bullshit is really restraint of trade. (Don't get me started on the 48 hour rule).
Do any of you feel otherwise and how do you intend to be in compliance?
Rick
I am trying to find the most effecient and least intimidating way to record calls. I figure the best way would be a service you can patch in a three way call and the recording would start there. This way you can warm up your prospect first and then drop the bomb that you have to record their permission to give you an appointment. Then i was wondering if we do this can we have the Scope of Appointment signed at appointment stating that permission was given via phone on a date 48 hours earlier ?
Are digital signatures accepted for those that have email ?
I was told Humana is working on a letter that can be signed at the time of the appt. I haven't seen it yet and I think it has to be CMS approved, so it will take a bit.
I don't want to jump through all these hoops. If we can't come up with a simple way to do it, I will be working primarily with existing clients and coasting through AEP doing other things.
Med Sups are my product of choice in the counties away from the city. Problem is that they are expensive in the Metro areas here in Missouri, and a couple MA's have strong PPO presence, so many times they are what are best for the client.
What are the ramifications if we do it incorrectly? No recording and a letter signed at the time of the appt? What will trigger a problem? A complaint or are they going to randomly audit us? Do we lose our appt with the insurance company if we do it wrong? These products are not regulated at the state level, so our licenses should not be at risk.
This whole thing is bullsh*t. Shouldn't the focus be on whether we sold the right type of plan based on the needs of the customer, not whether we can prove they agreed to an appt for the specific plan we sold them?
------------------------------------
Chuck
If you think your boss is stupid, remember: you wouldn't have a job if he was any smarter.”
Could you post the requirement? I see no mention of a requirement to record the call where we set the appointment.
All I found was this...
reviewing recordings of enrollment calls to ensure compliance with the new regulations; and
I have no problem with that.
Edit:
Found it...
The new rules limit any marketing appointment to the scope of healthcare-related products agreed upon by the beneficiary in advance. For an in-person appointment, the scope agreed upon must be documented in writing. If the appointment is made over the phone, the conversation must be recorded.
Jesus...
There is no way on earth they can police this. We're talking about millions of recordings.
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The genius who thought of this rule should be teabagged.
Last edited by Non-golfing Agent : 10-19-2008 at 07:12 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I agree that our license are state regulated, but we both know that CMS can make a "nudge" to the state DOI, and they'll listen. I'm not sure what they are going to do yet, but we did find a few ways that I'm going to try.
1) Live transfer leads. A company recently approached me telling me they can provide live transfer leads on MA. How are they getting the lead you ask? (I had the same question.) They went into a gray zone and their attorneys told them it was acceptable. Without letting the cat out of their bag, they are calling other company's existing clients from previous years past and then if they are interested then they do a live transfer to us agents.
2) Mailers. We all know it has a very low return, usually 1%-2%, but they are very cheap to do.
3) Seminars. Yes i know about the 48hour rule.
4) PSA. I contracted with a local Gospel station in NC. Once a week, I come on their show as a insurance consultant and answer questions insurance and Medicare. It gets name recognition and I get to plug my business.
5) and the best source of them all..... REFERRALS! I get as many as I can off of each appointment! For every health of life I sell, I always ask them if I can help their parents or grandparents with MA. Works very well!
The rules also require agents to document that, prior to making an appointment, beneficiaries agree to the scope of products to be discussed at the meeting. Appointments made in person require written documentation; appointments made over the phone require recorded documentation.
------------------------------------ Health Insurance Agents: Training, Support, Discounts, E&O for $440 www.ihiaa.com
I was told Humana is working on a letter that can be signed at the time of the appt. I haven't seen it yet and I think it has to be CMS approved, so it will take a bit.
I don't want to jump through all these hoops. If we can't come up with a simple way to do it, I will be working primarily with existing clients and coasting through AEP doing other things.
Med Sups are my product of choice in the counties away from the city. Problem is that they are expensive in the Metro areas here in Missouri, and a couple MA's have strong PPO presence, so many times they are what are best for the client.
What are the ramifications if we do it incorrectly? No recording and a letter signed at the time of the appt? What will trigger a problem? A complaint or are they going to randomly audit us? Do we lose our appt with the insurance company if we do it wrong? These products are not regulated at the state level, so our licenses should not be at risk.
This whole thing is bullsh*t. Shouldn't the focus be on whether we sold the right type of plan based on the needs of the customer, not whether we can prove they agreed to an appt for the specific plan we sold them?
Yes CMS has stated there will be small sample random checking after enrollment.
All these new rules seemed manageable until i started actually trying to implement them this week. It is going to take a complete reprogramming of the way i have been doing business. Let me tell its harder than you think to have a senior ask you to write a 72.00 final expense policy and have to reschedule an appointment to come back. I hope this lady is as interested in life insurance tomorrow as she was on Friday.
I find it interesting that CMS requires agents to record telephone conversations without citing FCC regs and state privacy laws. They are undoubtedly shooting from the hip, and haven't thought this through.
I know they consider themselves bullet-proof, but before I record any telephone conversations, I want to make sure I am not breaking any laws, regardless of what CMS says to do.
My advice to my fellow agents, is CYA... look up your state laws regarding recording of telephone conversations. Some states have required statements that must be made before you can record, other states may not allow them at all.
Generally, one-way recordings are exempt, because of the broad use of answering machines, but Watergate brings to mind the illegality of clandestine recordings of 2-way conversations. I think you will find that you will have to make sure the other party agrees to let you record the call. Otherwise it falls in the category of "wiretapping".
I wouldn't put it past them to allow the FBI to investigate you for wiretapping if they so choose. All they have to say is, "they should have known what to do to make it legal."
------------------------------------
To be truly independent, an agent should not be dependent on a government bureaucrat for contracts or commissions.
I find it interesting that CMS requires agents to record telephone conversations without citing FCC regs and state privacy laws.
This is a good point.
So where is the carrier guidance? They sit back and tell us, but, don't guide us.
I was certified back in August and had 6 seminars that I've canceled. How in the hell can we develop a sound business plan with these stupid rules and extensions.
Obama has in at least 3 debates made it clear that these plans are a bust. One more year of this and it will be OE MedSupp season. Then I'll stop clinging to my guns and bibles>
How in the hell can we develop a sound business plan with these stupid rules and extensions.
It appears that a sound business plan is one that does not include having anything to do with CMS or including anything that CMS has anything to do with.
There is a reason I became an independent agent. I plan to remain an independent agent.
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I'm a Diversified Independent Agent. I offer both MA/MAPD's and MedSupps. CMS has classified us as Rent-A-Agents or term-limit agents.
MA and MAPD's are a small portion of my operation. I just want to do what is best for my clients. Clients are forbidden to renew with us after 4 years. Many of them had no MedSupp before and many will not after the Obominator eliminates this program.
I hope that the states don't get any foolish ideas and copy some of this CMS crap. Otherwise, your next.
I can't see how that is true. You are the only person to say that.
If they didn't mean voice recording, it would say "documented."
Either way, there is not a chance in hell I can be in compliance so why even try?
Rick
I may be the only person to say it here, but, I have been told that by two carriers, Pyramid and Wellcare.
I do not have a way to record my clients or people that call me and then keep them as a separate file. Nor will I purchase anything that would allow me to do so. And, even if there is free technology that would allow me to do so, I still won't tape my phone call.
I have told every company this same thing. No company has told me that I had to voice record my conversations and Pyramid and Wellcare have told me that it means documentation.
I can only go by what I'm told. You may be right and they may say I'm in violation if I don't voice record. I doubt it will be an issue for me anyway as the only people I'm going to call are the people that I promised to call during lock in and it was before these rules came in effect. I have written permission from Wellcare to call those people. The only other calls I'm going to make are to my current clients. I'm not taking leads from any company and I'm certainly not cold calling anyone.
I find it interesting that CMS requires agents to record telephone conversations without citing FCC regs and state privacy laws. They are undoubtedly shooting from the hip, and haven't thought this through.
I know they consider themselves bullet-proof, but before I record any telephone conversations, I want to make sure I am not breaking any laws, regardless of what CMS says to do.
My advice to my fellow agents, is CYA... look up your state laws regarding recording of telephone conversations. Some states have required statements that must be made before you can record, other states may not allow them at all.
Generally, one-way recordings are exempt, because of the broad use of answering machines, but Watergate brings to mind the illegality of clandestine recordings of 2-way conversations. I think you will find that you will have to make sure the other party agrees to let you record the call. Otherwise it falls in the category of "wiretapping".
I wouldn't put it past them to allow the FBI to investigate you for wiretapping if they so choose. All they have to say is, "they should have known what to do to make it legal."
I heard that if you are selling a PFFS plan (don't think it applies to HMO's or PPO's), that you have to frisk the client first, and that for any agents certified to sell MA's CMS has ruled that they have given implied consent to have their offices and homes randomly searched at any time.
Anyone else here this?
------------------------------------ The Bolsheviks are dining in the capital.
In order to be compliant in 2009 you must now be invited to Thanksgiving dinner, film the whole dinner from 4-different camera angles, never bring up Medicare or ANY type of health insurance until the prospective client has said "I beg of thee, I beg of thee, I beg of thee" 3- times with their right hand placed on the 2009 Medicare and You book.
In order to be compliant in 2009 you must now be invited to Thanksgiving dinner, film the whole dinner from 4-different camera angles, never bring up Medicare or ANY type of health insurance until the prospective client has said "I beg of thee, I beg of thee, I beg of thee" 3- times with their right hand placed on the 2009 Medicare and You book.
This is ALMOST getting ridiculous.
You had me laughing, snorting and choking on my breakfast sandwich with this one !
CMS Telephone Recording Requirement
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