Insurance Agent Forum

[Robert Barney]

Al reiterates:

"I find Newby's post offensive."

I reiterate:

What precisely in Newby's post is offensive, or more important, what is defamatory?

Please be specific.

[al3]

Originally Posted by Robert Barney

Al reiterates:

"I find Newby's post offensive."

I reiterate:

What precisely in Newby's post is offensive, or more important, what is defamatory?

Please be specific.

Why do you care? This does not concern you. You are not the decision-maker here as you are not the list-owner. I took my case to the list onwer and have no need to share my reasonings with you or anyone else. I have stated that I have asked Sam to delete the post because I find it offensive. If you want greater detail or to be involved in his decision I suggest that you take it up with Sam in private. If that answer does not meet with your satisfaction, well you (and everyone else who is interested) will simply have to live with it.

I think your time would be better spent composing another advertisement for your software to post on the board. Everyone seems to have given you a free pass to do so, no one has labeled it as spam as I have... so go for it. Maybe you want to give us a daily posting on the number of hits your website gets and weave a commercial message into it... like you did earlier? I'm sure we all want this information. And why daily? How about an hourly post? And don't forget to twitter it as well!

Al3

[Robert Barney]

Originally Posted by al3

Why do you care?

I care because you stuck your nose into a thread that I started, and then you commenced dispensing accusations. When I responded, and others responded, indicating that you were out of line, you decided to suddenly demonstrate concern for the way that people were treating you when in fact you were the one who started it.

I think your time would be better spent composing another advertisement for your software to post on the board. Everyone seems to have given you a free pass to do so, no one has labeled it as spam as I have... so go for it. Maybe you want to give us a daily posting on the number of hits your website gets and weave a commercial message into it... like you did earlier? I'm sure we all want this information. And why daily? How about an hourly post? And don't forget to twitter it as well!

You see you just can't make a point without continuing to heap accusations upon accusations.


Here is the definition of spam on a message board (forum), courtesy of Wikipedia:

Forum spam is the creating of messages that are advertisements, abusive, or otherwise unwanted on Internet forums. It is generally done by automated spambots.

Let me assure you that I personally authored the posting that began this thread, and that it was not done by a bot. I don't consider the posting abusive, and I think others have already indicated that it was not unwanted - except for yourself.

So I reject your argument that it was spam. Did it contain some self promotion, yes. Was the information of material interest to others on this forum, I think it was.

Now the question is, "Why did you care?"

How and why did this thread concern you in the first place?

If you thought it was inappropriate why didn't you take your own advice, make a complaint to Sam, and let him make the decision. But no, you had to come in and take a backhanded swipe, and then when I and others reacted to your typical "drive by" remarks, you became offended.

Has it yet occurred to you that you began it by giving offense first?

And didn't you, in personal emails last week, assure me that if you had a problem with something I posted, or the other way around, that a personal email would be sent without it being aired out on the message board. Sir, I believe you breached your own undertaking by posting the response that you did to my initial posting.

[somarco]

Robert, let me pass on a bit of wisdom shared with me years ago.

Never teach a pig to sing. It is a waste of your time and it annoys the pig.

[Pangaea]

Originally Posted by somarco

Robert, let me pass on a bit of wisdom shared with me years ago.

Never teach a pig to sing. It is a waste of your time and it annoys the pig.

I hate to barge in Somarco, but you're obviously forgetting about Babe.

That bacon could sing!

YouTube - Babe The Gallant Pig - La La La

[Newby]

Wow Al! I can't believe how thin-skinned you are.

I have re-read my post to see if it was more over the top than I thought and I don't think it is.

I have not "outted" any secret or private information or said anything about you that you don't go to great efforts to let us all know.

The point of my post was to let any newer members know a little background on this busybody that feels the need to butt in on Robert's post. If they did a forum search on you they would get the same information from your own posts. I just condensed it and hopefully put it in a way that had a little entertainment value (humor.)

Al I don't think it's too bad of a post. I don't think the post has any hate or anger in it. It's just factual and a little bit funny. And I think it is accurate of how you WANT to be percieved. It's just a condensed version of what you tell us yourself in much longer winded and often hateful posts.

If I thought it was too mean, I was going to delete it. But I'm going to let it stand. I understand the consequences with all the governmnet agencys and high-level connections you have and all.

I will say this...I don't hate Al. I just get a chuckle out of his extreme personality. He's good for the forum to keep things lively.

[briko3]

I guess the post has stayed.............

[al3]

Originally Posted by Robert Barney

If you thought it was inappropriate why didn't you take your own advice, make a complaint to Sam, and let him make the decision. But no, you had to come in and take a backhanded swipe, and then when I and others reacted to your typical "drive by" remarks, you became offended.

All of the above were done... and my public complaint about your spam-o-gram as well as taking offense at Newby is part and parcel to my rights as a subscriber to this board and "community" just as it is yours. Of course you don't see it that way... and that is your right as well.

Obviously (IMO) you believe you have the right to spam the board. And others have blessed you and have given tacit approval. So why bother with me? Go ahead and spam away. No one is stopping you so far.

Robert you WON this one. You beat me. I lost. And since Newby's post is still up I can only assume he won as well. I'm sure that makes him happy... as it does you. I'm the loser in this contest... but I'll live to fight another day. I know what it is like to fight and lose and I know what it is like to fight and win. Winning is better... but losing builds character... and makes winning that much sweeter. Ask anyone who worked in the civil rights movement, the Kennedy/McCarthy campaigns of 1968, the anti-Vietnam days, the first Clinton campaign, the Dole-Kemp campaign, the Bush campaigns, the Obama campaign (I worked them all) and you will understand about winning some and losing some.

So again, Robert... you won. Now, for some reason, you want me to like you. Well you know something Robert, that is just not in the cards right at present or probably in the future. I don't like you. We talked on the phone and I didn't like you then. I've read your postings and that opinion has not changed. I won't say why I don't like you because that would probably constitute "name calling" and I said I wouldn't do that.

But you are in good company. I only like about a dozen people on this board and would go out of my way to avoid the vast majority of the 10,000 subscribers here in a public setting. And my guess is they would do the same with me... which is fine.

So you ask, "Why do you stay?" Take away the neo-con greed, avarice, and homophobic xenophobia... the fact remains that a lot of people here have a lot of good insight on the industry and are helpful. (I can't remember the last time you posted anything that wasn't a political tract or a Compulife advertisement... but I don't read every thread.) I'm not here to make friends or be made a friend. I read the content sections for the content and the non-insurance sections for entertainment (and now that Winter has changed his editorial style, I follow his postings with great interest as he is showing a degree of political analysis and writing skills unmatched by anyone else in this venue... including myself (he said with humility!)) When I think I can contribute to either genre, I do. I think advertisements like you posted in this thread should be banned from both, but I'm (as usual) in the minority on that.

So Robert, it is too bad that you are upset at my protestations about what I consider your spam posting as well at my offense at Newby's post. You are just going to have to live with it. If you can't, well then maybe it is best that you go back to Glen's list where no one dared to challenge you in the "foo" section or any other. Just a suggestion, not a demand or in any way an implication that you are not welcome here or valued by the many thousands of agents and vendors here who see you as their friend and (advertising) mentor. It just seems to me that your personality is not well suited for this venue, but that is only my opinion and you are free to differ if you like.

Perhaps it is time to let this thread die... but if you want to reply I will cordially respond, as I have above. I won't debate the specifics of your thread-opening post as it would be a waste of time. The jury is in on that... no one agrees with me... they all agree with you... so I suggest you take your victory graciously, thank everyone for their support... and that we all move on. There are many more important and interesting subjects to discuss besides the number of hits your website received and whether or not it is information or spam.

Al

[GreenSky]

I had placed $100 bet on Bob to win and only had to lay 20% juice. So glad that I have a winning ticket.

Rick

[al3]

Originally Posted by GreenSky

I had placed $100 bet on Bob to win and only had to lay 20% juice. So glad that I have a winning ticket.

Rick

Why such high vig on what was to be sure thing? You really thought I would win this one... in this venue... against two guys who are loved, revered, and respected... as opposed to my negative numbers here? Nancy Pelosi had a better shot than I did! Chumps is gouging you. I'm sure Frank or Nick will make you a better book! :-)

Al

[WinoBlues]

""That bacon could sing!""
FMFAO

Originally Posted by Pangaea

I hate to barge in Somarco, but you're obviously forgetting about Babe.

That bacon could sing!

YouTube - Babe The Gallant Pig - La La La

[Newby]

Come on AL! You get plenty of love on this forum.

I know what it was that offended Al the most. I forgot to put YMMV at the end of the post. That takes the edge off of it.

Sorry Al.

[CHUMPS FROM OXFORD]

"Chumps is gouging you"

Al...It is true that Rick pays more in monthly dues to our Association than any other member ($159).

But please keep in mind that he is a long-term member and the Association contract clearly stipulates dues rise every five years. I think you should also keep in mind that in the last seven years, at our annual convention, Rick has won three big-screen TVs, a car and two major appliances. I don't think that's a bad deal. Do you?

[LGilmore]

Well, I know this will drop me on the popularity scale (darn), but it looked like an offer to me. The question is this, is this a section where website services are to be offered with a possible sale or are those posts restricted to the offers section only? I read a price and an offer, am I really wrong? what was the $99 about?

[briko3]

I really don't mind it since compulife is something that CAN help you...I was lucky enough to have someone split their membership with me. What I don't like is people trying to recruit. That being said, there are a lot of Compulife offers all over the forum and not in the offers section. Just sayin.

[LGilmore]

Then it just looks like some sections need a bit more definition so both viewers and vendors will know what is what.

[al3]

Originally Posted by LGilmore

Then it just looks like some sections need a bit more definition so both viewers and vendors will know what is what.

Most boards like this have a simple "definition"...or rule... that simply says "Thou shalt not post a commercial message." The final judgment is that of the list-owner, but most often he/she is guided by what the subscribers say about the posting.

In this case there are only two subscribers who believe that the thread-starter post is spam. Everyone else has given their tacit approval to Mr. Barney to continue to post similar content... and since the post still stands, I can only assume that the list (board) owner concurs.

Sometimes ads and commercial messages are "allowed" by well-known and/or well-liked subscribers. Witness the howls by the unknown guy with the "Share insurance" threads that he posted.... all of them commercial. His ass got kicked pretty hard by the readership.

My analysis is that Mr. Barney's thread is standing and defended because either the readers see it as informational (because we all know how important the number of hits Mr. Barney's site gets IS to our overall success in this industry) OR because Mr. Barney is well regarded by the community and I can only surmise that any rules... written or unwritten do not apply to him or anyone of similar stature.

Anyway, I have no doubt we'll be seeing a thread titled "Compulife's Term4Sale Web Site Counter Hits 2 Million" in the near future, since there was no major objections to this thread.

Al

[Robert Barney]

Actually the counter hit 1,000,000 about June 2007. You can see that at archive.org:

Term4Sale term life insurance comparisons - over 125 companies

It took about 2 years and 4 months to add another 500,000 and so I think you are safe for at least two more years.

I'm sorry you don't see the number of visits to the Term4Sale web site as significant, but then you aren't listed there and why would you care? And if you don't care, why do you seem to care so much?

But a lot of agents are listed there and a lot of agents do business as a result of that site. Compulife takes NO COMMISSIONS on any sales that agents make as a result of that site - absolutely NONE. We have a nominal amount of revenue from agents who buy additional listings but it is quite small, even by your standards.

While I admit that it adds value to our products and services, and make agents more inclined to subscribe to our products and services, I would arge that this aspect of our service is as close to a giveaway for agents as anything anyone does. There are individual agents who have made a lot more money selling life insurance from that site than Compulife has made collectively from the site.

Did Sam establish this forum out of the goodness of his heart, or did he have a profit motive? I think it is a tremendous service to the insurance community to have a place like this to discuss/debate, but can you say that Sam does not derive any financial benefit from it? And if he does, does that make the entire forum "spam"?

Of course not. That is not spam and it doesn't come close to any definition of spam.

And you Al, can you assure us all that you have never derived a penny of revenue as a direct or indirect result of your postings on this board?

And do you routinely chase after "spammers" as you have wrongly defined them, whenever and wherever they appear on this board, or do you have an ulterior motive for being so diligent about pursuing me?

[LGilmore]

'My analysis is that Mr. Barney's thread is standing and defended because either the readers see it as informational (because we all know how important the number of hits Mr. Barney's site gets IS to our overall success in this industry) OR because Mr. Barney is well regarded by the community and I can only surmise that any rules... written or unwritten do not apply to him or anyone of similar stature"

Mr. B is sorta like China these days. Those who want something from him, overlook the activities that are similar to those they belittle and howl about. As long as the need exists, so does the tolerance.

But Al, nobody said anything about this site or others being fair or equal in their actions and it doesn't have to be.

[CHUMPS FROM OXFORD]

Just my 5 cents:

It is an offer. It is not spam.

That's my contribution.