Ha ha Craigslist. I have put a few things on there. I got a 20 year old kid with 5 speeding tickets. He couldn't understand why I couldn't save him a bunch of money! I told him to slow down for a couple of years and we could try again!
That doesn't sound very legit. It certainly doesn't sound ethical.
Why not? It's the same as putting it in any other CRM system. Don't forget, Norvax is a quoting system, lead management system, drip marketing system. It is not the reselling of the lead.
I think to often we hear Norvax and think PZ. It can be hard to keep everything straight.
Why not? It's the same as putting it in any other CRM system. Don't forget, Norvax is a quoting system, lead management system, drip marketing system. It is not the reselling of the lead.
I think to often we hear Norvax and think PZ. It can be hard to keep everything straight.
Dan
You're right. I got confused.
Norvax allows agents who use their quoting system to sell leads to them for states they're not licensed in. I thought that that is what was meant.
Thought I'd give you guys an update on this thing.
I initially bought $100 of leads at $14ish/each. I got a total of seven leads, four of which were credited because they were sent out after a pause request was made and missed. The other three were valid, and cost about $42. A refund in the amount of $58 was issued to my account a couple of days ago, so that's all good.
A bad experience, but the credits were fair, the refund was timely, and the matter was resolved to my satisfaction.
At least, that's the post I would have written at about 3:35 today. At 3:37, I got another call from Home Town Quotes.
I was impressed at first. I thought it was an apologetic call, from the way she started out. Oh, my blessed naivety. I'm almost cute.
I went from "moderately pleased at this seeming turnaround in company policy" to "I wish I could start fires with my thoughts" at the following phrase:
"However, I think there's something you might have misunderstood."
I was then told, again, that my information must have been re-sold by a rogue affiliate. That HTQ would never ever dream of re-selling leads no sir. That I was simply mistaken, that's all, and that they'd be happy to reactivate my account whenever I was ready.
Now, I was standing in the middle of a Walgreen's when this particular statement was dropped, so I refrained from saying precisely what was on my mind. And I'm in polite company here, so I'll keep those thoughts to myself again. Suffice to say, I was highly upset. After everything else, to simply insult my intelligence like that was...well, it was extraordinarily unprofessional.
Bob, who's your contact at HTQ? I was going to just let this drop after the refund, but today's little "reach out and touch you" call was over a rather personal line.
Thought I'd give you guys an update on this thing.
I initially bought $100 of leads at $14ish/each. I got a total of seven leads, four of which were credited because they were sent out after a pause request was made and missed. The other three were valid, and cost about $42. A refund in the amount of $58 was issued to my account a couple of days ago, so that's all good.
A bad experience, but the credits were fair, the refund was timely, and the matter was resolved to my satisfaction.
At least, that's the post I would have written at about 3:35 today. At 3:37, I got another call from Home Town Quotes.
I was impressed at first. I thought it was an apologetic call, from the way she started out. Oh, my blessed naivety. I'm almost cute.
I went from "moderately pleased at this seeming turnaround in company policy" to "I wish I could start fires with my thoughts" at the following phrase:
"However, I think there's something you might have misunderstood."
I was then told, again, that my information must have been re-sold by a rogue affiliate. That HTQ would never ever dream of re-selling leads no sir. That I was simply mistaken, that's all, and that they'd be happy to reactivate my account whenever I was ready.
Now, I was standing in the middle of a Walgreen's when this particular statement was dropped, so I refrained from saying precisely what was on my mind. And I'm in polite company here, so I'll keep those thoughts to myself again. Suffice to say, I was highly upset. After everything else, to simply insult my intelligence like that was...well, it was extraordinarily unprofessional.
Bob, who's your contact at HTQ? I was going to just let this drop after the refund, but today's little "reach out and touch you" call was over a rather personal line.
Nick, I am Bob's contact at HometownQuotes. It sounds like we dropped the ball with you on your requested pause. Sorry about that but it sounds like we refunded your money so the leads were free…good luck with those.
I think the only thing that was misunderstood is that we were truly calling to say "sorry". You wrote us a well written, articulate and professional email and we thought it deserved a response. I asked our head of Agent Services to do just that and she called multiple times until she was able to get in touch with you. Did she want you to come back to use our service? Of course...I am sure you would want the same with any consumer that left your agency. Sorry if you took it any other way.
To address some of the other issues in this conversation:
Do we use affiliates? Absolutely and it is a shame that the word "affiliate" has gotten such a bad wrap. It is like saying all insurance agents are bad. There are PLENTY of great affiliates. Alston, who posted in this thread, is one of them and one of ours. He is a respected agent who flat knows the insurance business and we are proud to partner with him. In fact we have a TON of agents that are affiliates, it is a good way to monetize their website for consumers outside their area. The problem is when a few bad apples spoil the bunch. I would be telling a lie if I said we hadn't had bad affiliates or that we wouldn’t have them in the future and while we are doing everything in our power to not let them send the first lead to us some get through and when they do we give credit. It is the right thing to do and the way we run our business. Trust me the last thing we want to do is send bad leads…it is bad business.
Do we have a relationship with Norvax? You bet we do…we also have a relationship with Quotit, Insurint (coming soon) and other lead management systems/CRM that allow you guys to do your job better and faster. If you arent using one I suggest you at least give it a try. I am happy to refer you to somone.
Thanks for everyone for their feedback and opinions on the subject. It seems we lead vendors tend to be the red headed step child of insurance forums and I am ok with that. Hell…I was an agent for several years and I know what it is like to sit on both sides. Both of us have a tough job.
Ultimately we have two missions at HometownQuotes:
1.Provide an unparalleled consumer experience. This means giving the consumers an easy to navigate website, a complete shopping experience and great agents who will treat them right. (Yes we occasionally “fire” agents for mistreating the consumer as that isn’t good for anyone us, the consumer or the next agent that calls).
2.Become our agents #1 source of new business. We truly want to be just that for every agent. Do we succeed 100% of the time? Heck no. Do we try? Heck yea. This means doing the right thing, giving credits when credits are due, offering $100 in free leads with no string attached to members of this board, making calls to agents that had a bad experience and kicking out bad sources of traffic when the situation calls for it, no matter how financially painful it is.
Some of you will never know the painstaking efforts we go to do these things and that is ok but I think it is important that you at least “hear” what we are trying to do…at least once.
I don’t get on this forum as much as I would like these days. Our 40+ employees and our business keep me pretty busy so I probably won’t spend much time rebutting comments made from this post but if you want to talk to me feel free to email me at the address below.
Take care and have a great weekend.
Hunter
P.S. Nick...let me know if you want to talk. I will be happy to get on the phone with you. Shoot me an email and let me know a good time.
Bob, thanks for bringing Hunter in to the thread. And Hunter, thanks for coming and responding to my concerns.
I'm going to go ahead and shoot you an email, Hunter. I'm sure that this is the sort of thing that both of us would want to avoid in the future, so let's see if we can't figure out a way to do that.
Edited to add: Sorry, this was going to bother the hell out of me if I didn't post it -- my apologies if Ambrosia attempted to call me more than once before I caught it. I spent yesterday taking a friend to an emergency clinic and was super distracted. If I missed a call from her, I didn't realize it.
The Good: Hunter made good on his offer of a $100 credit with no obligations. I accepted and stayed with HTQ for a while.
The Bad: Leads were OK...not better than any other carrier. At times, oversold and quality was not always acceptable.
The Ugly: Actually, nothing.
My take: The consensus around here is that something changed at HTQ over the last few years. Lead quality has reduced. Maybe different key words are being targeted...I don't know.
In fairness, I have not been with them for a while, so perhaps those that have purchased their leads within the last six months can chime in.
Actually Nick, I did not bring Hunter into the mix. We parted ways several months ago from a business perspective but I still like and respect Hunter and what they do at HTQ.
The correct spelling is Ambrosha, not Ambrosia. I probably made the same mistake. She is a great lady as is Elaine and all the others at HTQ.
Actually Nick, I did not bring Hunter into the mix. We parted ways several months ago from a business perspective but I still like and respect Hunter and what they do at HTQ.
The correct spelling is Ambrosha, not Ambrosia. I probably made the same mistake. She is a great lady as is Elaine and all the others at HTQ.
Oh, my mistake. I just assumed from the timing of things that you had given him a ring. Sorry about that! And thanks for the correct spelling of Ambrosha's name. Ever since I talked to her, I've had an overwhelming craving for my mother's ambrosia salad...
And, for the record, I can't stress strongly enough that every person I've talked to at HTQ has been very helpful and professional. I was dissatisfied with the leads and with the PZ thing (which I hope Hunter can help clear up once and for all when we speak on the phone, hopefully on Monday), and while the tone of the last call I received struck me very wrong it doesn't look nearly as bad in the light of a calmer day. While I still don't agree with the phrasing that was used, I can certainly understand where they were coming from - if a client of mine dropped off of my book, you bet I'd try to get them back. At the very least, I'd do everything I could to figure out why they left so that I didn't repeat my mistake.
Sounds like HTQ's has some really, really nice people... You guys give some great endorsements.
But why do their leads suck so bad...? (actually I don't know if they do or not, I couldn't get past some of the inflexibility and lack of filtering, all things that I did not like about their life ins leads.) So hence, I am NOT a customer.
But they have some super nice people, from the sound of it.
------------------------------------
"A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him." David Brinkley
There are some really great folks at HTQ. At one time they were very easy to work with on crediting bum leads, then they decided to change their business model which significantly impacted my COA. Leads that were once credited without question were rejected.
If you pay for filters for uninsurable conditions then those leads that slip through should be credited. Trying to weasel out of a credit by saying the other spouse is insurable and besides, you can always pick up an AOR is unacceptable. It is not always possible to peel off the insurable spouse and leave the other behind. AOR's are almost impossible to pick up with some carriers and not even in the cards when the current coverage is an employer group plan.
Splitting hairs to deny a credit was the last straw for me.
I made very good money off HTQ leads and enjoyed a very solid business relationship until last fall when it started to deteriorate.
Unlike most agents, I didn't have a problem with the eHealth button (which most lead vendors have), but I am beginning to rethink that position.
As long as the button just allows them to get a passive quote, it is not an issue with me. But now it seems that eHealth has a phone room and is aggressively calling leads just like other boiler room operations.
That is a major concern to me.
Hunter shared with me the stats on eHealth revenue and while I don't recall the exact figures, it was very small . . .perhaps 1% or less of their income. If that 1% results in adding more phone sharks to the mix from eHealth then it is counter-productive to say they are catering to the agent.
It is confirmed yet it will be denied by many that Ehealth is indeed calling their leads.
The following is out of the eHealth code instructions used to pass data to eHealth. It is old code but it must still work because we still use it. It hasn't changed in years that I know of but I guess it's possible that additional data could have been added.
Notice that nowhere is a field to pass a phone number. In fact, even name and email info is optional. We don't pass that info. I don't know of a lead services that does(then again, I haven't asked.) I don't know what's going on in particular with eHealth and HTQ but no one at eHealth has informed me that there is a calling program at the quote level. They don't have that information unless the user gives them the information by completing an application, which is a very low percentage.
EHealth conversion is very low, so low an agent has little to worry about. I don't know what there average form completion rate (Application Rate) is but I would say it's at best 3% of the people that get a quote. Not everyone gets a quote! BTW, application rate means they fill out the web application. It does NOT mean a completed health insurance application (I think they need signatures but that may vary by State.) It also doesn't mean an accepted application or a sold or delivered policy. I doubt there close ratio makes it even to 1% when you consider the drop off from quote to actually delivering a policy. I don't have any way of knowing that because we are paid based on quotes and completed Web Applications. It ends there for the lead company and I don't know how eHealth makes any money. However, eHealth helps keep costs down so I'm not questioning there business model.
Believe it or not, as an agent buying leads, eHealth is your friend. Your leads would cost more if they weren't in the picture and I believe that holds true for any lead service.
Specification for Passing User Information to eHealthInsurance.com
Revision 3.01
Feb 6, 2004
Passing Information to eHI using POST Method
If the length of URL string is over 258 characters (which will often occur when information about dependents needs to be passed), then the affiliate must pass the following fields using the HTTP POST method.
<!—REQUIRED fields to get to the Zip Page--—>
<input type="hidden" name="allid" value="XXXNNNNN"> <!—alliance ID. we will provide this to you—>
<input type="hidden" name="type" value="IFP"> <!—product code. Either: IFP, ST, STU, LIFE, DT, or SG—>
<!—additional REQUIRED fields to get to the Census Page--—>
<input type="hidden" name="zip" value="95123"> <!—zip code. Format NNNNN—>
<!—additional REQUIRED fields to get to the Quote Page. NOTE: This is not available for product type SG--—>
<!—fields required for primary applicant--—>
<input type="hidden" name="gd1" value="Self(Male)"> <!—primary applicant gender (Self(Male) or Self(Female)) —>
<input type="hidden" name="bdate1" value="01/01/1965"> <!—primary applicant birthday; format mm/dd/yyyy—>
<input type="hidden" name="smoker1" value="on"> <!— Use "on" for smoker; all other values = non-smoker —>
<input type="hidden" name="student1" value=""> <!— Use "on" for full-time college student; all other values = NOT —>
<!—fields required if there is a spouse--—>
<input type="hidden" name="gd2" value="Wife"> <!—spouse gender (Husband, Wife, NotIncluded, or blank) —>
<input type="hidden" name="bdate2" value="12/12/1965"> <!—spouse birthday; format mm/dd/yyyy—>
<input type="hidden" name="smoker2" value="on"> <!— Use "on" for smoker; all other values = non-smoker —>
<input type="hidden" name="student2" value=""> <!— Use "on" for full-time college student; all other values = NOT —>
<!—fields required if there is one dependent--—>
<input type="hidden" name="gd3" value="Son"> <!—1st dependent gender (Son, Daughter, NotIncluded, or blank) —>
<input type="hidden" name="bdate3" value="11/12/1985"> <!—1st birthday; format mm/dd/yyyy—>
<input type="hidden" name="smoker3" value="on"> <!— Use "on" for smoker; all other values = non-smoker —>
<input type="hidden" name="student3" value="on"> <!— Use "on" for full-time college student; all other values = NOT —>
<!—fields required if there is a 2nd dependent--—>
<input type="hidden" name="gd4" value="Daughter"> <!—2nd dependent gender (Son, Daughter, NotIncluded, or blank) —>
<input type="hidden" name="bdate4" value="11/12/1995"> <!—2nd dependent birthday; format mm/dd/yyyy—>
<input type="hidden" name="smoker4" value=""> <!— Use "on" for smoker; all other values = non-smoker —>
<input type="hidden" name="student4" value=""> <!— Use "on" for full-time college student; all other values = NOT —>
<!—fields required if there is a 3rd dependent--—>
<input type="hidden" name="gd5" value="NotIncluded"> <!—3rd dependent gender (Son, Daughter, NotIncluded, or blank) —>
<input type="hidden" name="bdate5" value=""> <!—3rd dependent birthday; format mm/dd/yyyy—>
<input type="hidden" name="smoker5" value=""> <!— Use "on" for smoker; all other values = non-smoker —>
<input type="hidden" name="student5" value=""> <!— Use "on" for full-time college student; all other values = NOT —>
<!—fields required if there is a 4th dependent--—>
<input type="hidden" name="gd6" value=""> <!—4th dependent gender (Son, Daughter, NotIncluded, or blank) —>
<input type="hidden" name="bdate6" value=""> <!—4th dependent birthday; format mm/dd/yyyy—>
<input type="hidden" name="smoker6" value=""> <!— Use "on" for smoker; all other values = non-smoker —>
<input type="hidden" name="student6" value=""> <!— Use "on" for full-time college student; all other values = NOT —>
<!—fields required if there isa 5th dependent--—>
<input type="hidden" name="gd7" value=" NotIncluded"> <!—5th dependent gender (Son, Daughter, NotIncluded, or blank) —>
<input type="hidden" name="bdate7" value=""> <!—5th dependent birthday; format mm/dd/yyyy—>
<input type="hidden" name="smoker7" value=""> <!— Use "on" for smoker; all other values = non-smoker —>
<input type="hidden" name="student7" value=""> <!— Use "on" for full-time college student; all other values = NOT —>
<!— OPTIONAL fields —>
<input type="hidden" name="sid" value="XXXXXX"> <!—partner specific id, up to 60 characters —>
<input type="hidden" name="reqdate" value="MM/DD/YYY"> <!—requested effective date —>
<input type="hidden" name="email" value="XXXXXXXXXX"> <!—email address —>
<input type="hidden" name="fname" value="Fred"> <!—first name —>
<input type="hidden" name="lname" value="Flinstone"> <!—last name —>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Originally Posted by somarco
As long as the button just allows them to get a passive quote, it is not an issue with me. But now it seems that eHealth has a phone room and is aggressively calling leads just like other boiler room operations.
That is a major concern to me..
All I can tell you is that we don't pass any phone numbers to eHealth and there isn't a field in the instructions to do it. My guess is that eHealth is calling people who actually applied after being passed there. Maybe they are calling there old applicants. That percentage is extremely low, too low to make a difference to an agent.
In the end, a boiler room is no match for a local agent or any agent who can give personalized service for that matter.
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Michael Levy
Chairman and Founder
MostChoice.com, Inc.
Search Engine Only Generated Insurance Leads
Last edited by MikeLevy : 03-15-2009 at 07:34 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
EHealth conversion is very low, so low an agent has little to worry about. I don't know what there average form completion rate (Application Rate) is but I would say it's at best 3% of the people that get a quote.
From my observations of my own data and readings I don't think it is near 3%, far less.
Also correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe Ehealth does outbound solicitation? They don't even harvest phone numbers to my knowledge.
Re: Concerns with Hometown Quotes
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