Insurance Agent Forum

[salpro22]

1) What are actual commission rates (industry averages, specific to Farmers, specific to any company in the industry, achieved by independent agents) on home and auto policies sold as (a) new business (b) renewals?

2) What is fair commission for me (as a licensed agent working under a
Senior agent) to earn on home and auto (a) new business written (b)
Renewals.
What is a typical compensation scheme for someone just starting off?
What is my take, and what is his take?

3) What are actual life commissions, and what would be fair to ask for
As my take?

Thanks again!

I have seen you bring this up before so hopefully this advice will help. I have NO PRIOR KNOWLEDGE of the P & C world but that is actually in your favor because I don't know. Start off at 100% or whatever you think is right. Im not sure if auto pays the same as life, but who cares....you're negotiating..

Negotiating 203 teaches us that you reach for the moon and either stop at your realistic goal and know when to walk away.

Agent: What level would you like to be at?
You: 100%
Agent: I can't do that!
You: What can you do?
Agent: 10%
You: Wow! how did you come up with that number?......What are you expectations of me?
Agent: yadda, yadda, yadda.
You: It seems like...... repeat yadda part.
Agent: That's about right.
You: What do I get in return?

And it goes on until both parties reach their goal... Personally, I would focus more on learning from him as your boss/mentor vs. the commission level you start off with. You can always negotiate that as well after a probationary period.

[Frank Stastny]

Hey J.R.

I don't mean to be unkind, but do you have a feeling he is putting us on? He keeps asking the same questions over and over and over again.

I think everyone in this thread has given him great advice and suggestions and he just keeps asking the same questions.

EspeciallyInMich,

It's real simple. You go to your boss and have a face to face with him. You need to be asking him these questions, not us any longer. We have given you our best suggestions and advice.

Now it's time for you to get a pair and go in and talk to him. If you can't handle that then how are you going to deal with prospects and prospecting?

Cut the best deal you can with him. If he doesn't give you what you want then walk. If you are willing to settle for what he offers then be happy with it and get on with the business of selling insurance.

It sounds like you expect us to do that for you. I am very leery of someone who is constantly asking others to do their "work" for them.

If you want to know what other agents who work for the company are getting then go find some and ask. We don't know! That is your job, not ours. I like to think this board is composed of agents who are willing to help each other, not baby sit.

Sorry if that sounds a little harsh, if it does, it is probably because it is. You have already stated that you are only in it to make a lot of money fast. If you are really serious about this, the kind of "serious" it is going to take to be extremely financially successful in a short period of time, then I believe you would have already taken care of this part by yourself.

[salpro22]

Originally Posted by Frank Stastny

Hey J.R.

I don't mean to be unkind, but do you have a feeling he is putting us on? He keeps asking the same questions over and over and over again.

I think everyone in this thread has given him great advice and suggestions and he just keeps asking the same questions.

EspeciallyInMich,

It's real simple. You go to your boss and have a face to face with him. You need to be asking him these questions, not us any longer. We have given you our best suggestions and advice.

Now it's time for you to get a pair and go in and talk to him. If you can't handle that then how are you going to deal with prospects and prospecting?

Cut the best deal you can with him. If he doesn't give you what you want then walk. If you are willing to settle for what he offers then be happy with it and get on with the business of selling insurance.

It sounds like you expect us to do that for you. I am very leery of someone who is constantly asking others to do their "work" for them.

If you want to know what other agents who work for the company are getting then go find some and ask. We don't know! That is your job, not ours. I like to think this board is composed of agents who are willing to help each other, not baby sit.

Sorry if that sounds a little harsh, if it does, it is probably because it is. You have already stated that you are only in it to make a lot of money fast. If you are really serious about this, the kind of "serious" it is going to take to be extremely financially successful in a short period of time, then I believe you would have already taken care of this part by yourself.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink!

What you can do is have some delicious venecin. .

[senior-advisor-indiana]

Frank, what if you do not have a pair because of an accident? It's not me, its a friend. Should I tell him to take a different career path unless he can get a surgery done to make his pair?

[SME]

Originally Posted by EspeciallyInMich

Thanks again for your replies. I was wondering if anyone can answer the specific questions below - any data you can provide would definitely be helpful. Or if you can refer me to another avenue to ask these questions, that would be fine as well.

1) What are actual commission rates (industry averages, specific to Farmers, specific to any company in the industry, achieved by independent agents) on home and auto policies sold as (a) new business (b) renewals?

2) What is fair commission for me (as a licensed agent working under a
Senior agent) to earn on home and auto (a) new business written (b)
Renewals.
What is a typical compensation scheme for someone just starting off?
What is my take, and what is his take?

3) What are actual life commissions, and what would be fair to ask for
As my take?

Thanks again!

I'm going to try and give you a little more of what I think you are looking for. Personally I have not sold P&C for several years. But at my last agency I had an agent start around the same time I did and he told me about his contract. So here is what I know.
1.) He stated that the average P&C commission was between 10 and 15%. Which is about the same as health. I have no idea about renewals.
2.) He and I both had a base salary based on our experience. I think his was $28,000 as he was newly licensed and had no experience. Commissions were 15% of the commission recieved with increases depending on the size of your book of business. At the top was 35%. I believe that renewals were the same. You have to remember that he will be paying your salary, equipment and benefits so he will be taking a financial hit on you for at least a year. By keeping a higher percentage of your commissions he will be recouping those costs.
3.) Life commissions range from 70-100% of first year premiums depending on the carrier and product.

For simplicity purposes I would recommend that you request a flat commission percentage for all lines. The easier it is to understand the easier it will be to get approved. Also you don't know yet what lines you will like best or sell the most of so having things even across the board will allow you to find out without hurting your income. Get EVERYTHING in writing, signed, dated, and notarized. Make sure that you understand how incentives, bonuses, and trips will be handled. If you work your a** off selling a ton with one company and then the senior agent gets the reward for it you won't be very happy. Hope that helps.
Steph

[Frank Stastny]

Originally Posted by senior-advisor-indiana

Frank, what if you do not have a pair because of an accident? It's not me, its a friend. Should I tell him to take a different career path unless he can get a surgery done to make his pair?

Tell him to join a castrati chior, he will make a fortune singing in the soprano section.

Or, he could hang a couple of oranges around his waist. Missouri isn't Texas but we do things here in a "big way" here also.

[EspeciallyInMich]

Originally Posted by SME

I'm going to try and give you a little more of what I think you are looking for. Personally I have not sold P&C for several years. But at my last agency I had an agent start around the same time I did and he told me about his contract. So here is what I know.
1.) He stated that the average P&C commission was between 10 and 15%. Which is about the same as health. I have no idea about renewals.
2.) He and I both had a base salary based on our experience. I think his was $28,000 as he was newly licensed and had no experience. Commissions were 15% of the commission recieved with increases depending on the size of your book of business. At the top was 35%. I believe that renewals were the same. You have to remember that he will be paying your salary, equipment and benefits so he will be taking a financial hit on you for at least a year. By keeping a higher percentage of your commissions he will be recouping those costs.
3.) Life commissions range from 70-100% of first year premiums depending on the carrier and product.

For simplicity purposes I would recommend that you request a flat commission percentage for all lines. The easier it is to understand the easier it will be to get approved. Also you don't know yet what lines you will like best or sell the most of so having things even across the board will allow you to find out without hurting your income. Get EVERYTHING in writing, signed, dated, and notarized. Make sure that you understand how incentives, bonuses, and trips will be handled. If you work your a** off selling a ton with one company and then the senior agent gets the reward for it you won't be very happy. Hope that helps.
Steph

Steph, Thanks for your very constructive advice. I really appreciate it!

To the rest of you... thanks for nothing. I have no need to defend my masculinity to a bunch of idiots who can hide behind their computer screen. If you notice I asked for some specific questions to be answered, not your opinions.

If anyone else has anything to add to Steph's experience, I'd be glad to hear it. Thanks.

[senior-advisor-indiana]

You are in big trouble for those comments. You better start some editing.... or else...

You asked questions... people gave you answers.... Geeze, this guy doesn't appreciate anything! This board is full of successful insurance agents. If you don't want opinions from them, who do you want opinions from?? Agents who have failed??

If you are going to be successful in this business you need to learn to listen to people who are successful, learn what worked for them, and adapt it to your personality and selling style. This forum really gives anyone who will listen the opportunity to do that.

I agree with Indiana... start doing some editing, or don't bother posting on here anymore. Don't be surprised when your next question goes unanswered!

[SME]

In his defense he did not recieve specific answers to his questions. This is a new agent who wants to know where to start. He has no basis to start negotiating with his boss and was looking for a place to start. How can you negotiate what your commission should be if you have no idea what the industry standard is? It's all good and well to give theories or negotiating techniques but without justifiable numbers you will never know if it is a fair offer.
What he wanted to know was very basic, how much should he expect to start at and how much is the going rate for his experience. I think this is a very difficult question for this board to answer as so many of us are independent and not captive. After reviewing the board I see that many people gave him advice but not the solid numbers he was seeking.
There is a tendency here for people to get on thier high horses and decide that thier way is the only way. Some people are captive, some independent. Some self employed some not. But we all have to start somewhere, and what he wanted to know is if he starts here where will he be in 2 years? Are his expectations reasonable? What should his expectations be? Maybe solid answers don't exist as everyones experiences are different. Personally I think it is because it is so easy to forget where we started, and how we get to where we are. Try to look back at your first insurance job and think about all of the things you wish you would have known then. Are they the same questions he is now asking us?

[EspeciallyInMich]

Exactly, thanks Steph.

I definitely didn't intend for this to turn into a "flame" thread. I'll raise the white flag here.. I'm just looking for some answers and help (not insults).

Also, I want to clarify why I'm asking these questions here instead of "growing a pair" and talking directly to my boss. I would like to have some idea of what I should be earning before I attempt to negotiate compensation with my boss. He is a veteran agent, very tight with money, and I am young and inexperienced at negotiating. I don't want to be greedy, I just want to know what is fair for me to make.

Soo... I really do appreciate your guys experience, success, and help to the extent that you aren't deriding me. And I truly would appreciate some more advice on negotiating my pay. Thanks.

[salpro22]

What he wanted to know was very basic, how much should he expect to start at and how much is the going rate for his experience. I think this is a very difficult question for this board to answer as so many of us are independent and not captive. After reviewing the board I see that many people gave him advice but not the solid numbers he was seeking.
There is a tendency here for people to get on their high horses and decide that their way is the only way. Some people are captive, some independent. Some self employed some not.

Exactly, and some of us, myself included, mentioned that we did not know the numbers but offered alternatives to find out those numbers and negotiate a fair deal. From what I know about P & C, most lines are between 5-10%, but I'm not 100% sure that is correct.

I don't see most of the posters on this board as believing "their way is the best way." We each have our own methods, but it is rare to see somebody say "what you are doing is stupid or not right method." Their is only one way and that is a combination of several strategies.

But we all have to start somewhere, and what he wanted to know is if he starts here where will he be in 2 years?

You know that the majority of people who enter this field leave it within 1-2 years. Of the people who stay, 95% make the median income as illustrated by federal, local and various organizations. The remaining 5% make over 100,000 a year. So, the question anybody should ask themselves is....What group do I want to be in and how do I get there."

There is a chance for a lot of money to be made, but that isn't the point. I rather start off at a lower percentage, learn the business, put in quality business and let the money come. Worry about the little commission changes later you get the experience.

Are his expectations reasonable? What should his expectations be? Maybe solid answers don't exist as everyones experiences are different. Personally I think it is because it is so easy to forget where we started, and how we get to where we are. Try to look back at your first insurance job and think about all of the things you wish you would have known then. Are they the same questions he is now asking us?

Well, let's see

If I do this, I would like to eventually reach the point where (a) I could sell the business for a 6-figure sum (b) I could have a competent staff run the agency, with minimal involvement on my part, while I earn significant yearly income. Is that possible?

Sounds like something Robert Kiyosaki would say to entice people to make "a lot of money, part-time." I rather focus on how much business do I need to write to make $100,000, $200,000 etc. a year.

@ 20% commission rate and 500,000 AV I reached that goal.
@ 10% commission rate I need 1,000,000 AV to reach that goal "the first year."

It is very simple when you look at it and just crunch the numbers needed to reach you goals and go get em....

[Frank Stastny]

Sorry Guys,

I know I should let this one drop and normally I would but this guy just doesn't get it. However, I don't think he will be around here very long when he finds out that selling insurance is very hard work and he has to do it all by himself. And, isn't going to become "wealthy" overnight.

I think everyone here has given him great advice, advice that I would be very appreciative of if I was just starting out. I'm equally as sure that you all would have appreciated the rest of the members on this board giving you that kind of advice and sharing their opinions when you were first getting starting.

I think all of us have given a lot to each other and especially to new agents who are just getting started. Agents who are working hard at it and obviously are doing most of it themselves. They just need some opinions and suggestions to get pointed in the right direction

Al was just thanked on the forum by KenDog for all the time he spent with him on the phone helping him make a decision regarding which company to start with. KenDog had apparently done the research, knew what he wanted to do and was just was asking for some opinions on which of several companies he explored may give him the best training.

I'd be willing bet the conversation wasn't about how much commission or how to talk to the company representative.

After his previous comment, [COLOR=darkgreen]"To the rest of you... thanks for nothing. I have no need to defend my masculinity to a bunch of idiots who can hide behind their computer screen. If you notice I asked for some specific questions to be answered, not your opinions"[/COLOR] , he is still asking, not for suggestions or opinions, because he stated that we are idiots for offering "opinions", but for us now to teach him how to negotiate and by his tone, it sounds like he even expects us to write a script for him.

He obviously hasn't done any research or is interested enough to try to find out any of this on his own. He apparently wants us to do that for him, and when we don't tell him word for word what to say or ask for he gets real testy. He is intimidated by his boss so he wants us to "do the negotiating for him" apparently.

His excuse is that he is young. That is very obvious. So are a lot of other "new agents" on this board. You don't hear them asking for someone to "hold their hand" every step of the way. I'm sure KenDog and the others worked their butt of before they ever asked their first question.

He has also stated that the only reason for his interest in insurance is to make a lot, really lot of money really fast, sell the "agency" and go on to something else.

Nothing about thinking he would enjoy this as a profession, or genuinely wanting to help people make intelligent, well informed decisions about their insurance. Just, MAKE A LOT OF MONEY FAST AND GET OUT.

By his previous statements he has all the potential of being the kind of agent that gives us all a bad rap -- Do what ever it takes to make the sale.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the vast majority of agents on this board really enjoy selling insurance and genuinely try to help get the best policy for the most reasonable cost for their clients. Most are not going to make hundreds of thousands of dollars each year doing it, me included. We do it because we like it, not to become wealthy overnight.

After being told his comments were not appropriate he said he will "raise the white flag here". Did I miss seeing the word "apologize"? He now has an friend, Steph. I have read her posts and she sounds like a well informed professional agent. I openly admit that she is much more nurturing and protective than I would be of one who seems so ungrateful. I'm sure she is and or would be a great mother. She is exhibiting all of those wonderful qualities in this post. I do admire her patience.

It sounds like since he made his "white flag" statement that he expects us all to get together now for a "group hug" and teach him how to negotiate. When is he going to start to learn to do this stuff on his own? What will happen to him of Steph decides to stop posting here?

I'm sorry but it's the end of the week and I have already used up my quota of hugs for the week.

[SME]

Thanks for the nice words Frank. I agree that he is focusing on the wrong things, and has unreasonable expectations. Maybe I was a little over protective. I feel for him and his misguided ideas. Although I can not let him use the excuse that he is young as I am also 25. Maturity comes with experience, and not age.

[salpro22]

Originally Posted by SME

Thanks for the nice words Frank. I agree that he is focusing on the wrong things, and has unreasonable expectations. Maybe I was a little over protective. I feel for him and his misguided ideas. Although I can not let him use the excuse that he is young as I am also 25. Maturity comes with experience, and not age.

With most guys maturity is 90% correlated to age, while women get the light bulb moment between 23-25.

Fact is that even though I never thought I would say this "teenagers and men/women under 25" are becoming more lazy, spoiled and undisciplined. I feel way tooooooo young to be saying that, but that is the truth. had a client ask me today how old I am and being in Sales I said 55 j/k. Client guessed by my voice is was in my mid 30's. Works for me

[Frank Stastny]

Originally Posted by SME

Thanks for the nice words Frank. I agree that he is focusing on the wrong things, and has unreasonable expectations. Maybe I was a little over protective. I feel for him and his misguided ideas. Although I can not let him use the excuse that he is young as I am also 25. Maturity comes with experience, and not age.

You sound mature beyond your years. I'm sure you are very successful in everything you do.

You don't really remember that song do you?

[SME]

I would have guessed mid thirties after talking to you.

And as someone in this catagory I agree that alot of people under 25 are spoiled and some what lazy. It makes us all look bad. But I don't know very many people my age so I'm not a very good person ask. My peers have a tendency to irritate me so I avoid them.

[SME]

Frank,
What song????????

[JSF]

Don't remember that song, but in the 70's when I was in the band, I remember folks "gatoring". Never did it myself but saw lots of it done, mostly when we played college campii and surrounding bars.

If you look closely at THE REFLECTION of Steph's avatar, you'll see the person GATOR - for just a sec.

[salpro22]

I would have guessed mid thirties after talking to you.

I just hope my clients do not look at my myspace profile http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...did=457 06318

And as someone in this catagory I agree that alot of people under 25 are spoiled and some what lazy. It makes us all look bad. But I don't know very many people my age so I'm not a very good person ask. My peers have a tendency to irritate me so I avoid them.

I feel the same way. I know two other people around my age who works as hard as I do and I LOVE that. John P. is the only local competition I have to worry about, but fortunately for me he is talking about becoming an Assistant Manager at Taco Bell.