Insurance Agent Forum

[GreenSky]

The more I read about how easy it is to use a web-based, free CRM (only takes 4-8 hours to set up, needs tweaking, need a server, etc) the happier I am that I have chosen to specialize in insurance, rather than configuring a CRM.

Most agents are not so cheap that they are willing to become experts in computers and computer language. It's unnecessary. Some people have enough time and knowledge that they love doing it themselves. I would rather spend the 8 hours (and ongoing maintenance time) selling insurance.

If screwing around with programming "floats your boat," have at it. I'm glad I paid under $300 for a program that I don't have to think about. And although according to our resident genius (in his own mind) YIO is buggy, likely to crash, etc., it has been working 100% of the time for me and most others I know of.

If it takes 14 pages of posting and any technical jargon (not to mention the need for a server, a stack installer, or the ability to program) to explain why a free CRM is better because it's "easy," then it's too difficult to explain.

There is nothing wrong with a web based program but unless you already have an interest in spending hours and hours, perhaps it's better to spend a few dollars and use something that you already know will work for the insurance agent who would rather sell than learn computers.

Rick

[al3]

[quote]

Originally Posted by GreenSky

The more I read about how easy it is to use a web-based, free CRM (only takes 4-8 hours to set up, needs tweaking, need a server, etc) the happier I am that I have chosen to specialize in insurance, rather than configuring a CRM.

I can understand how setting up a CRM could be too hard for you and others. Some people just don't have the apitude for dealing with computers. Those people should spend a few bucks and hire a consultant to come and put it all together.

And although according to our resident genius (in his own mind) YIO is buggy, likely to crash, etc., it has been working 100% of the time for me and most others I know of.

Well you "opened the door here" so I assume it is OK for me to comment. You say YIO has worked 100% for you, but you also have said that you have required some support from the software owner. So what is it? 100%? 99%. You are going to tell me that YIO never hangs or crashes? Well, I'm here to tell you that because it uses Microsoft Access as its database engine that either you are not telling us 100% of the truth, or you have been 100% lucky... because Access is not and never was designed to be used in a mission-critical mode. That's why Microsoft has SQL-Server. (Which, by the way, YIO with little or no configuration should work with.)

My question is just exactly how many customer records do you have in YIO? Fifty? A hundred? Ten thousand? Microsoft Access was designed to handle telephone lists and recipes and address books, not many thousands of leads, accounts, and other table entries. If there is ONE THING that Access does not do well it is SCALE without corruption. (Fortunately the corruptions can most often be fixed with some free utilities you can get from Microsoft that will re-build the key chains.)

If you have a small, simple, low-volume practice as I assume you have... and you never have the need to access your data from outside your office, and you have no need to be multi-user, YIO is obviously fine. But in my opinion it is not a well-spent $300... at least not for my practice and the way I do business... often on the road, in the air, and sometimes on a cruise ship... with an assistant in the office pounding on the database the same time I am. (I can actually run the biz pretty well with my iPhone (since it has the Safari web-browser built in.))

If it takes 14 pages of posting and any technical jargon (not to mention the need for a server, a stack installer, or the ability to program) to explain why a free CRM is better because it's "easy," then it's too difficult to explain.

That's one take on it. But here is another. Perhaps it is just too difficult for you to comprehend.

There is nothing wrong with a web based program but unless you already have an interest in spending hours and hours, perhaps it's better to spend a few dollars and use something that you already know will work for the insurance agent who would rather sell than learn computers.

Well, there is a half-truth here. I don't see it as "better" to spend a "few dollars" and use something "you all ready know... ." YIO may work great for you and for you it might be $300 well-spent. But for many others it isn't.

How come YIO is not used by EVERY agent out there? Why isn't the install-base in the thousands and not in hundreds (if that?)

My guess is that more people who have tried it (as I did) didn't like it... than did like it. If YIO was the end-all and be-all in insurance agency software, why are people constantly coming here asking about web-based CRM solutions? Maybe they know something you don't know? Or maybe they are just stupid. No wrong answer.

The Jackass.

[GreenSky]

Originally Posted by al3

Well you "opened the door here" so I assume it is OK for me to comment. You say YIO has worked 100% for you, but you also have said that you have required some support from the software owner. So what is it? 100%? 99%.

The support was to clarify how to use some features, not to help me keep it going. Can you say the same about the "support" for your free CRM?

Originally Posted by al3

My question is just exactly how many customer records do you have in YIO? Fifty? A hundred? Ten thousand?

I have exactly 715 client records and 317 prospects. Not that it's any of your damn business but this is probably 10 times more than you have.

Originally Posted by al3

If you have a small, simple, low-volume practice as I assume you have... and you never have the need to access your data from outside your office, and you have no need to be multi-user, YIO is obviously fine.

Well, I certainly don't have a complicated, high-volume practice as you must have. Obviously you didn't fail as an independent when you went to MoO, and you didn't fail there where you lasted about 13 weeks before you were ready to leave. Must be because you're such a great producer that makes you so successful in this industry.

Originally Posted by al3

Well, there is a half-truth here. I don't see it as "better" to spend a "few dollars" and use something "you all ready know... ." YIO may work great for you and for you it might be $300 well-spent. But for many others it isn't.

How come YIO is not used by EVERY agent out there? Why isn't the install-base in the thousands and not in hundreds (if that?)

My guess is that more people who have tried it (as I did) didn't like it... than did like it. If YIO was the end-all and be-all in insurance agency software, why are people constantly coming here asking about web-based CRM solutions? Maybe they know something you don't know? Or maybe they are just stupid. No wrong answer.

The Jackass.

You are so obsessed with your put-down of YIO that you didn't even read that your response above was based upon my comment on web-based CRMs are a good idea for many people. Never compared it to YIO.

The only people that are obviously stupid are those who allow you to be their insurance agent.

You (once again due to your obviously high level of understanding) fail to understand that I did nothing to promote YIO except to say that it works for me and I don't have the background or the time for a free CRM. I did say that web-based are fine if they are already configured. This is what most agents want.

As to you adopting the nickname that I gave you of The Jackass, perhaps you'll be happy with your real nickname of The Asshole. I won't let you bully me like you try with others and that must really bother you.

Can't wait for another long response. I'll just sit in my "small, simple, low-volume practice" waiting for your next post.

Rick

[The New Guy]

Somewhere, Orville Redenbacher & Adolphus Busch are smiling ear to ear.

[al3]

[quote]

Originally Posted by GreenSky

The support was to clarify how to use some features, not to help me keep it going. Can you say the same about the "support" for your free CRM?

Of course. There are tens of thousands of Sugar users as well as a huge support forum (like this). I've never had any problem getting answers for any issues I've had with Sugar... and there have been a few minor ones.

I have exactly 715 client records and 317 prospects.

If the above is true (and I have no reason to doubt you... well yes I do... but that's a story for another posting) you are taking your chances trusting that much mission critical data on a Microsoft Access platform. My words of advice to you are BACK IT UP... FREQUENTLY! You will be glad you did... probably sooner than later.

Not that it's any of your damn business but this is probably 10 times more than you have.

You have almost 4 times not 10 times as many accounts as I do. But my account records have more data than what YIO stores. For example I have email and notes for each client... sometimes a hundred combined per client.

I also have hundreds of PDF documents in the database ... the carrier brochures, reports, fliers, etc.

I have far, far, far many more prospects (leads) than you have but that's because I put more of them in the database than you probably do (and I have an assistant to enter them for me. She picks up a stack of biz cards I get from networking at chamber and charity events, takes them home and enters them into Sugar. Right there is one of the advantages of a web based platform. You can off-load work to someone who is NOT in your office.)

Well, I certainly don't have a complicated, high-volume practice as you must have. Obviously you didn't fail as an independent when you went to MoO, and you didn't fail there where you lasted about 13 weeks before you were ready to leave. Must be because you're such a great producer that makes you so successful in this industry.

While I've failed at a lot of things in my life and have run several ventures that I started into the ground, I don't see MoO as a failure at all. In fact I may be going back because the rumor is that they are looking at changing managers since so many people have left.

Believe it or not, you can learn a lot from failing. You obviously have never failed, because you have learned nothing from your life except how to be obnoxious and how to get your way via that obnoxiousness. (The new MoO guy and you are cut from the same cloth... management by intimidation.)

The only people that are obviously stupid are those who allow you to be their insurance agent.

I disagree. I've seen first hand how you treat your clients, your aggressive manner, and your high-pressure persona. Just as you are on this board, so are you with clients. Just as you treat me and others here, so do you treat your clients.

If product knowledge is the litmus test of a "good agent" you are surely that. But if one measures a good agent by accounting for caring, empathy, and respect, you are not going to be on anyone's short list. You are who you are... and no one here is going to give you the "nice person" award. Dave Fluker you're not. John P. you're not. The other 99% of the people on this board who try to help others and who really care about their clients... you're not.

I'm relieved that you only sell MA and Supps. You can't do any permanent damage in that market. You would be a train-wreck in trying to sell life or any other product that required mutual trust and respect. Most of us try to earn it. You demand it. It simply does not work that way.

As to you adopting the nickname that I gave you of The Jackass, perhaps you'll be happy with your real nickname of The Asshole. I won't let you bully me like you try with others and that must really bother you.

Believe me Rick, nobody bullies you. I don't know of anyone on this list who is as tough as you are. I do my best to stand up to you, but every time I do, instead of just living and let live, you come back and knock me down again. But I keep getting up. I had hoped that you had finally learned that I was not going to go away and that you had decided to adopt a position of detente. Things were going OK between us for the past couple of months. But I was wrong. You didn't change. If anything, my failure was in believing that you had.

Can't wait for another long response. I'll just sit in my "small, simple, low-volume practice" waiting for your next post.

You happy now?

The Asshole (aka The Jackass)

[GreenSky]

Originally Posted by al3

You happy now?

The Asshole (aka The Jackass)

Delighted. Thanks for asking.

Rick

[dannysdad]

Originally Posted by GreenSky

The support was to clarify how to use some features, not to help me keep it going. Can you say the same about the "support" for your free CRM?


I have exactly 715 client records and 317 prospects. Not that it's any of your damn business but this is probably 10 times more than you have.

Well, I certainly don't have a complicated, high-volume practice as you must have. Obviously you didn't fail as an independent when you went to MoO, and you didn't fail there where you lasted about 13 weeks before you were ready to leave. Must be because you're such a great producer that makes you so successful in this industry.


You are so obsessed with your put-down of YIO that you didn't even read that your response above was based upon my comment on web-based CRMs are a good idea for many people. Never compared it to YIO.

The only people that are obviously stupid are those who allow you to be their insurance agent.

You (once again due to your obviously high level of understanding) fail to understand that I did nothing to promote YIO except to say that it works for me and I don't have the background or the time for a free CRM. I did say that web-based are fine if they are already configured. This is what most agents want.

As to you adopting the nickname that I gave you of The Jackass, perhaps you'll be happy with your real nickname of The Asshole. I won't let you bully me like you try with others and that must really bother you.

Can't wait for another long response. I'll just sit in my "small, simple, low-volume practice" waiting for your next post.

Rick

Would you be willing to serve as my self-esteem director?

[retread]

Just for the record, I would like to add that my copy of YIO has not been "unstable" as another has intimated of YIO. I have had to re-install it a couple of times over the past couple of years because my computer crashed (to the point I had to completely rebuild it) due to problems with my motherboard's RAID incompatibility with a well-known Backup application.

Frank always answered my t/s call right away, gave me the new download code, and I was back in business.

I like the simplicity of YIO. And it works. Saves me a lot of time, not having to fiddle with it. Did I mention that it is stable?

I use another simple program (Network Magic) because it saves me time when my LAN goes down. Not because I don't know how to fix it (I designed and installed it myself), but because it saves me time. One click and it auto-repairs a dropped IP connection (usually a wireless adapter) Did I mention that YIO saves me time?

I build and repair computers as a hobby. I sell insurance as a business. I don't make money fiddling with my computer.

Did I mention that YIO is stable and saves me time?

[GreenSky]

Originally Posted by retread

Just for the record, I would like to add that my copy of YIO has not been "unstable" as another has intimated of YIO. I have had to re-install it a couple of times over the past couple of years because my computer crashed (to the point I had to completely rebuild it) due to problems with my motherboard's RAID incompatibility with a well-known Backup application.

Frank always answered my t/s call right away, gave me the new download code, and I was back in business.

I like the simplicity of YIO. And it works. Saves me a lot of time, not having to fiddle with it. Did I mention that it is stable?

I use another simple program (Network Magic) because it saves me time when my LAN goes down. Not because I don't know how to fix it (I designed and installed it myself), but because it saves me time. One click and it auto-repairs a dropped IP connection (usually a wireless adapter) Did I mention that YIO saves me time?

I build and repair computers as a hobby. I sell insurance as a business. I don't make money fiddling with my computer.

Did I mention that YIO is stable and saves me time?

Yes, but is it stable?

Rick

[retread]

Originally Posted by GreenSky

Yes, but is it stable?

Rick

Haven't lost a horse yet!!

[al3]

Originally Posted by retread

Just for the record, I would like to add that my copy of YIO has not been "unstable" as another has intimated of YIO.

I'm the "another" that you mention.

I'm glad that you have had no problems with the Microsoft Access database. But just in case, the following might be good web sites to bookmark:

Corrupt Microsoft Access MDBs FAQ

And more specifically:

Some Microsoft Access MDB Corruption Symptoms

The Microsoft Access Jet database engine was designed to keep small phone lists and recipes on. It has few if any fault-tolerant features and has a long history of being prone to key-chain and index corruption.

I wouldn't put mission-critical data on it... but if you are only going to have a few hundred up to a couple of thousand records on it and if you have good power protection... a loss of power can really mess up Access... I'm think you will be OK. One suggestion... you might consider rebuilding the .mde every once in a while. Your best protection is to keep a week or two of backups... making one each day. (And test them every once in a while.)

Remember, I'm just one person and while I have many years of experience with Access and many other databases, my advice and opinion is worth what it cost you.

And note... before you hit the "flame" button... this has nothing to do with YIO. I'm sure after all this time YIO is bug-free and stable (i.e. it does not crash or freeze due to a programming problem.) I'm talking about the Access database... which lots and lots of applications use. It is fine for simple home or small office non-essential record keeping. However you would NOT see any knowledgeable (small or large) business or corporation use Microsoft Access for its mission critical data... they use SQLServer or Oracle or MySQL or Postgres or Sybase or any one of a hundred others.

Al

[djs]

Al -

I actually agree with you, somewhat, about the issues with Access. Granted, they are no where near as bad as they used to be.

Keep in mind, Access is designed to be a desktop database (what you refer to as recipes). YIO is designed to be a desktop application. It is reasonable to use these together.

The big problems with Access come from multi-user, something it doesn't handle as well as it should, but also, something that isn't a big issue with the transaction volume of most individual user programs. There are now even several e-commerce sites that use an access db to run on, and work reasonably well.

MySQL is probably a bit more stable than Access, but it also is not rated as a mission critical database. It has it's little notorious 'oopses' in life, but if you are not pounding on it very hard, you'll probably never run into them. If you back up frequently, you'll almost never have a problem.

My point is simple. The sky isn't going to fall because someone uses Access as their database. Is it prudent to back up? Sure. This is true with every database application.

Dan

P.S. I love mysql, it is truly what data enables the web world. This site runs on a mysql database, my site runs on a mysql database. When I had an ecommerce store, it ran on a mysql database (though it transacted with an access database locally). If I had to run a large ecommerce store, it would run on something more robust than mysql though.

[al3]

Originally Posted by djs

Al -


Keep in mind, Access is designed to be a desktop database (what you refer to as recipes). YIO is designed to be a desktop application. It is reasonable to use these together.

Well, that's the same as saying: A soft-boiled egg is a breakfast food. Maple syrup is a breakfast food. So it is reasonable to mix syrup with your soft-boiled egg. I'll agree... but it depends on how sick you want to get!!

Leaving out YIO and Access for the moment, it is not "reasonable" to put ANY mission-critical data on any platform that you know to have a history of instability AND which has nothing in the way of features and facilities to prevent and recover from corruption.

Yes, you can... but why would you want to? Why take a risk you don't have to take?

If I were the developer of an application and wanted to use Access as a FRONT END (for screens and data entry and reporting) I would link tables to MySQL via ODBC.

An Access Front-End to MySQL


Now I DO understand that making customers have an installed MySQL database adds to the complexity of the application at install time because setting up the ODBC interface can be confusing (perhaps there is a way to automate it these days?) But if you want to sell a product that is going to be almost bullet-proof, you have to bite the bullet and do that. It would mean more customer hand-holding and perhaps a higher price for that needed support.

Maybe the answer is to sell two systems. One that says "It's pretty stable but you take your chance" ... and it uses Access... meaning a relatively simple install process... and a higher-end, a more secure version using MySQL. (By the way installing MySQL is not all that difficult... and MySQL is free MySQL :: MySQL 5.0 Reference Manual :: 2.4.8 Installing MySQL on Windows)

Getting back to YIO... if I were the developer I'd convert the whole mess to PHP and put it on the web and make a service out of it like we do with our Jaya123 system. Here is a conversion system... which I've not used but it looks pretty good.

Convert your Microsoft Access forms to WEB-page with DBForms from MS Access to PHP + MySQL converter.

As I say, it all comes down to how valuable the data is. For me, I have a two copies of SugarCRM on my server... a production one and a back-up. I have a copy of the system on my local Mac. I reload the test system every few hours. I reload the Mac once a night. I dump the database to a "SQL dump" format and FTP it to a totally different data center (which charges me $100 a year) every 30 minutes. It is all automated... works fine.

Could YOU do this? The vast majority of you couldn't... any more than I could repair brakes on my car. But you could hire a consultant for a couple of hundred bucks (if that) to do it for you... just as I would take the car in to a brake shop.

Or you can just use a desktop system with Access. There is no wrong answer... just degrees of risk... and everyone has different tolerances. YMMV.

Al