Curious about DBA's

Sir Ringo · 08-26-2007, 01:57 PM

O.K. I ran a search on this forum pertaining to business names, couldn't find a discussion about it. I realize that this subject may be a moot discussion, however, I am very curious as to whether or not you registered your business name or not, I am under the impression that being an independent agent, therefore sole proprietorship, a person doesn't have to do anything.

Anyone?

healthagent · 08-26-2007, 02:03 PM

At least in MD you must register a fictitious name. Unless I'm doing business as "John Petrowski" I have to register my name with the Maryland Dep't of Licensing and Taxation: SDAT: Forms & Applications - it's a modest fee and there are forms for sole proprietors.

It's an insurance violation to go by a business name that's not registered by the DOI. In MD a DBA is free: MIA - Download Documents - just scroll to "trade name regristration form"

And as if that's not good enough you must also check with your county. Some counties require their own license for you to run a business. Here's mine to run a search to make sure no one else has your biz name: https://elicvirtual.courts.state.md....blicSearch.jsp then here: https://elicvirtual.courts.state.md....nTreeSteps.jsp

Sir Ringo · 08-26-2007, 02:11 PM

Thank you. I will check with my local county agent then.

healthagent · 08-26-2007, 02:19 PM

Most of the requirement are on the state level. You also might want to trademark your name if you have any desires to be "big" one day or simply don't want anyone else to use your name. You also "could" be sued if you happen to pick a biz name that's already trademarked. If you choose not to trademark your biz name in theory there's nothing you can do if 5 other businesses decide your name is cool and they choose it. A classic lawsuit was over the old "WWF" - they were sued by the World Wildlife Fund who has trademarked "WWF" and won - hence they're WWE now.

As for the IRS if you're a sole proprietor you don't need to do a thing. Your SSN is all you need however if you want to register a EIN that's free and takes 5 minutes: IRS Form SS-4 EIN

pfsthib · 08-26-2007, 03:01 PM

I Louisiana you have to register your tradename/DBA with the secretary of state. once you receive that form back, then you send it to the Department of Insurance. They send you a new license with the tradename on it.

The New Guy · 08-26-2007, 03:10 PM

In Michigan, to protect a name within the State, you must incorporate the entity. That protects your name state-wide. If you do DBA within a County, that only protects your name within that County. If you register a name within a County, that is already registered by a corporate entity, state-wide, they can send you a cease & desist letter. In Michigan, it is up to you to do the research on the name, as the Counties won't do it for you. They will just let you know if it, the name, is already registered locally. Also, if you do incorporate an entity as say, The Insurance Forum LLC, you must file a DBA, with the State as, "The Insurance Forum," otherwise, you must include the LLC in your name when you advertise. This holds true with the DOI as well. As always, consult with an Attorney, I'm sure this will vary from State to State.

The New Guy · 08-26-2007, 03:22 PM

Good point John about Trademarked names. I forgot about them when I posted. It sounds to me, if you add the last three posts together, you should have a complete answer.

TXINSURANCE · 08-26-2007, 03:23 PM

This is going to vary drastically from state to state, even some counties are in on the DBA issue.

Most dept. of insurances want to know if you are using a fictitious name as well - although most agents I know don't bother, I am not to sure how or if this is enforced.

I am of the personal opinion to never use DBA unless it is a DBA of another corporate entity. In most states you can form a INC or LLC (even easier) for $100 to $300 - why risk your personal assets with a DBA?

Don't bank on E&O protecting you (remember it is an insurance policy!).

Form a LLC or corporation - it is the cost of doing business is my advice.

healthagent · 08-26-2007, 03:30 PM

I see this field, in the grand scheme of business, to have the least likelihood of being sued. It's often not a physical location with employees which are open to all kinds of suits from sexual harassment to slip and fall to workers comp issues.

I don't deal with money, physical inventory or employees. I'm close to be "un-sueable" barring flat out conning a client such as submitting an app when I had no authorization to do so.

Being sued over a plan I sold? Almost impossible. Maybe if I outright lied about the benefits of a plan but even then, likely not. A recent Mega Life case went to court over a $500,000 claim. The judge ruled it was the sole responsibility of the client to read and review the policy during the 10 day free look. Was that right? Maybe - maybe not. Can I really be sued if someone needs 6 months of skilled nursing and the policy only offered 30 days and I didn't go over that benefit during the sale? Absolutely not. Can I be sued if I sell a Carefirst plan with a $500 drug cap and they go on $5,000 a month of meds? Absolutely not.

The bottom line is if I'm doing a diligent job my chances of being sued are the same as my changes of winning the lottery - and I don't buy tickets.

senior-advisor-indiana · 08-26-2007, 03:38 PM

Are there any agents out there that have had to use thier E&O or that have been sued?

healthagent · 08-26-2007, 04:36 PM

First of all, if you do anything intentional you're not covered by E&O. E&O also would not cover you if a client simply hit a plan limitation. That's not what E&O is for.

I'm sure many clients have had emotional reactions to hitting a cap. Unfortunately, there's no where to go. Who are you gonna sue if you need a year of outpatient therapy? No one.

If I buy a car and know it doesn't have rear airbags and my son dies in a crash can I sue the car salesman? Dealership? Manufacturer? If I sell a Carefirst policy and say "Pete, this plan has a $500 drug limitation" and Pete says "that's fine" then it's over if Pete needs $10,000 a month in meds.

TXINSURANCE · 08-26-2007, 07:07 PM

A lot of clients are liars, and Health Insurance companies have 2 years to prove it when the claims start rolling in.

Internet / Phone sales tend to pull liars out of the bunch.

Need proof? Less than 2% of my leads use Tobacco... Wow!!! Those anti-smoking campaigns must be paying off??? Yeah right... People are obviously not being honest.

I can name 10 agents I know who have all settled E&O claims, so yes it can happen to you despite being careful and putting barriers in place. You need to not be paranoid about it - but prepare as a possibility that is all.

There is a higher risk with Internet Sales, Sub-Agents, Employees, etc., etc.,

One person show no subs, no employees - I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

healthagent · 08-26-2007, 07:44 PM

It's amazing how many potential clients I lose when I go over how claims review works in conjunction to filling out a correct app. All of a sudden I can't get them to return a call. Go figure.

Knowing how the average agent conducts business I'm surprised there aren't more lawsuits. I personally am not worried in the least bit.

GreenSky · 08-26-2007, 08:37 PM

Slightly off subject, does an LLC in California (for example) protect the name in other states?

Could someone that is less than trustworthy (no one comes to mind) steal my name for use in lets say, Indiana?

Rick

The New Guy · 08-26-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenSky

Slightly off subject, does an LLC in California (for example) protect the name in other states?

Could someone that is less than trustworthy (no one comes to mind) steal my name for use in lets say, Indiana?

Rick

A Domestic Corporation, in state, will take precedence, over a Foreign Corporation, out of state. However, a Federal Trademark, or Servicemark, will take precedence over both. TTBOMK

al3 · 08-26-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenSky

Slightly off subject, does an LLC in California (for example) protect the name in other states?

Could someone that is less than trustworthy (no one comes to mind) steal my name for use in lets say, Indiana?

Rick

Whether the name is attached to a sole-prop, an LLC, an S-Corp, or a C-Corp, or a non-profit Corp ... has (almost) nothing to do with if it is protected beyond the state it is domiciled in (and it's "county" not "state" for sole-prop or partnership).

What you want to do is get a Trademark on your name and that will give you a large measure of protection from anyone taking your name... or as is more the case, borrowing it.

Go ahead and name your new company the Coca-Cola Insurance Agency and wait for the phone to ring from the guys in Atlanta. (Although I like to hear the argument that their lawyers would make in how the general public would 'confuse' the Coca-Cola Insurance agency with the company that makes the brown fizzy soda... but I have no doubt that can... and have!)

IF your REAL name was Walter Disney, and you wanted to make movies (in CA at least) you'd have a hard time doing business as Disney Films.

The one thing I learned in my brief tenure in law school is that you should not equate the law with justice.... at least not all the time.

As for GreenSky, I know for a fact there is a BlueSky Cola and no court in the land would let you go into business as GreenSky Cola. (I love BlueSky Cola... when I can find it... Whole Foods here discontinued it... but will order it for me. Try it if you can. It's great.)

Do you know the GreenSky.org people? They are in LA. Look here.

Al

somarco · 08-26-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

I see this field, in the grand scheme of business, to have the least