Disability Insurance for Hands

[TPetersen]

Partial body coverage is easily available. People who ask for this type of coverage ask for 1 of 2 reasons:

1) They think the premium would be much lower since it pertains to a specific part rather than the body as a whole, and

2) For marketing purposes.

We do write these things, but here are a couple of thoughts to share with your client:

1) Premium is often not much less than standard disability insurance. Why? Because the heart attack impacts the hands. The broken neck, impacts the hands. etc..

If premium savings was the reason, it will be minimum at best.

2) "My hands are so valuable, I bought disability insurance" just doesn't have the same sexiness as "My hands were so valuable I had to insure them!"

Having said this, partial body coverage is legitimate disability protection. Proceed accordingly!

 

[WMG]

I have experience in the high-end, speciality DI marketplace as part of my practice. First, I would get the strongest/best OWN OCC policy, up to the max limits if the Dr. qualifies. For that type of doctor, rating class, etc. -- I would look at Berkshire. For doctors, the highest occupation class, etc. -- they have have the premier product in the marketplace.

Second, I would look to Lloyds of London, for both additional coverage and speciality coverage. But, you need to talk to a specialist. A real specialist. Specialty coverage -- hands only -- might be as costly as additional coverage, depending on the body part, lifestyle, underwriting, etc. I would look at both! Without question. You just don't know. These are all bespoken issues and while policy language might be similar, standard, etc. -- underwriting is not.

Also, remember, Lloyds is NOT an insurance company. Thus, different correspondents here in the US have different underwriters, prices, contracts, everything is different. A lot of people don't get that. You really need to know what you are doing here.

I strongly suggest you contact Crump/Special Markets. They are located in Northern NJ (Montvale, maybe?). Call there and ask for Diane Koval. She's in underwriting, but she'll take the call the put you in touch with their sales people who are right there, onsite. They were private, were sold to Bisys, then to Crump and now they operate as Crump's Special Markets operations. They are the best in the business in my opinion.

Crump Special Markets is the premier and largest Lloyds correspondent in the US, and they have capabilities that a Peterson, and others, don't have.

 

[scagnt83]

Crump Special Markets is the premier and largest Lloyds correspondent in the US, and they have capabilities that a Peterson, and others, don't have.

Could you expand on this a bit more? What capabilities do they have the Peterson does not? Can they cover higher limits? Different risks? Im not familiar with them but I am familiar with Peterson.

 

[WMG]

Could you expand on this a bit more? What capabilities do they have the Peterson does not? Can they cover higher limits? Different risks? Im not familiar with them but I am familiar with Peterson.

If you are familiar with, and more importantly, if you like Peterson, then work with them. We each do what we like and are comfortable with. That said, and I hate oversimplifying, accessing Lloyds coverage must be done through a US correspondent. There are a few key correspondents in the US. Everyone else is simply a "broker" who goes through those few key correspondents. I've seen plenty of "agencies" advertise Lloyds coverage, market, etc. -- and all they are doing is "brokering" business, and then putting that business through one of the US correspondents. Not that there is anything wrong with that -- to each their own. If you work with an agency who helps you, that's a good thing. For me, my practice, etc. -- I have always dealt direct with a correspondent. Peterson is one, Crump Special Markets is another (they used to be Hanleigh Special Markets, and was then sold to Bisys, and then to Crump), and there are several others. Some specialize in certain types of markets, risks, coverage, etc., but that's a discussion for another time. Each correspondent has "lead underwriter" who is underwriting that risk. It is that lead underwriter who offers the coverage, the policy, the contract language, and the price/premium. However, some correspondents have the ability and will go to the "open markets" (meaning other underwriters, other than their lead underwriter) which is similar to "shopping the marketplace" so to speak. This can be very important. Remember different underwriters, in this setting, are like different insurance companies -- different products, policies, prices, contracts, contract language, etc.

That said, I know Peterson well, I've taken over as BOR on cases of theirs, have worked with them, and have done business with them numerous times in the past. While they may -- to some producers -- have a name or more of a name in this marketplace, amongst producers who "live in this space" or specialize in it, have a lot of experience in this space, etc., Peterson is far from the only or biggest name in this marketplace. That said, I have not found them to be "the best" in this marketplace. Lloyds has a North American presence here directly. Their top person here represents Lloyds and works with all of the correspondents directly, and he knows this marketplace better than anyone I've ever met. I use him as a quasi "consultant" so to speak on many of our cases. Even with that, I still speak to each major correspondent here in the US. Regardless, I've found Crump Special Markets to be the best in the business.

My experience, first -- on both high-ranking corporate executives (CEO's et al), doctors, specifically specialists, and athletes and entertainers -- is that Crump Special Markets has more favorable policy/contract language (based upon their lead underwriters, the volume, risks, etc.). This is a very important component. Remember, get four different quotes for "Lloyds of London" coverage -- and most producers have no idea they are for four different policies with different contract language. We obtain specimen contracts, riders, etc.---semi-annually, or whenever a correspondent/underwriter makes a change.

Second, we've found that Crump Special Markets is willing to and go to the "open markets" much quicker and sooner than Peterson, and on the last few cases I worked on with Peterson, they could not, or did not, go to the "open markets". In addition, Crump Special Markets, has always seemed to bring back better results from the open markets -- better terms, coverage, language, etc. They seem to have more flexibility, options, etc. I don't know if Peterson is not able to, refuses to, or what, but they simply didn't (go to the open markets). Third, on my last case, which I shopped to four different correspondents, Crump Special Markets had the ability to "buy" (via riders removing exclusions) additional coverage that Peterson was not able or willing to.

Lastly, and I won't get into specifics, but on various potential cases with Peterson, which were for insureds/clients outside CA (a NY case was one of the recent ones), there were certain things that Peterson required, that had to be done, as part of the application and underwriting process that just didn't make sense to us. I don't know if it had to do with paying the surplus lines tax(es) to the respective state or what -- but it was the first time I had seen that and I wasn't comfortable securing the coverage that way.

On the intangible side -- I've just found Crump Special Markets to be a complete pleasure to work with. I've met them, been to their office, they've taken the time to come to mine, and they've worked with me to help me and my business. I've also met with Peterson, been to their office, met many of the family members, and they've done much of the same for me as well. I've just found Crump Special Markets to be better, all around. However, as I said, if you like Peterson, you should work with them. If you are considering doing business elsewhere -- call Diane. It will be well worth it in my opinion.

 

[scagnt83]

If you are familiar and more importantly you like Peterson, then work with them. We each do what we like and are comfortable with. That said, accessing Lloyds coverage must be done through a US correspondent. There are a few key correspondents in the US. Everyone else is simply a "broker" who goes through those few key correspondents. I have always dealt direct with a correspondent. Peterson is one, Crump Special Markets is another (they used to be Hanleigh Special Markets, and was then sold to Bisys, and then to Crump), and there are several others. Some specialize in certain types of risks, coverage, etc., but that's a discussion for another time. Each correspondent has "lead underwriter" who is underwriting that risk. It is that lead underwriter who offers the coverage, the policy, the contract language, and the price/premium.

That said, I know Peterson well, I've taken over as BOR on cases of theirs, have worked with them, and have done business with them numerous times in the past. While they may have a name or more of a name in this marketplace, I have not found them to be "the best" so to speak. Lloyds has a North American presence here directly. Their top person here represents Lloyds and works with all of the correspondents directly, and he knows this marketplace better than anyone I've ever met. I use him as a "consultant" so to speak on many of our cases. Regardless, I've found Crump Special Markets to be the best in the business.

My experience, first -- on both high-ranking corporate executives (CEO's et al), doctors, specifically specialists, and athletes and entertainers -- is that Crump Special Markets has more favorable policy/contract language (based upon their lead underwriters, the volume, risks, etc.). This is a very important component. Get four different quotes for "Lloyds of London" coverage -- and most producers have no idea they are for four different policies with different contract language. We obtain specimen contracts, riders, etc.---semi-annually, or whenever a correspondent/underwriter makes a change.

Second, we've found that Crump Special Markets is willing to and go to the "open markets" much quicker and sooner than Peterson, and on the last few cases I worked on with Peterson, they could not, or did not, go to the "open markets". Crump Special Markets seems to have more flexibility, options, etc. I don't know if Peterson is not able to, refuses to, or what, but they simply didn't (go to the open markets). Third, on my last case, which I shopped to four different correspondents, Crump Special Markets had the ability to "buy" (via riders removing exclusions) additional coverage that Peterson was not able or willing to.

Lastly, and I won't get into specifics, but on various potential cases with Peterson, which were for insureds/clients outside CA (a NY case was one of the recent ones), there were certain things that Peterson required, that had to be done, as part of the application and underwriting process that just didn't make sense to us. I don't know if it had to do with paying the surplus lines tax(es) to the respective state or what -- but it was the first time I had seen that and I wasn't comfortable securing the coverage that way.

On the intangible side -- I've just found Crump Special Markets to be a complete pleasure to work with. However, as I said, if you like Peterson, you should work with them. If you are considering doing business elsewhere -- call Diane.

Thanks for the insights!

 

[TPetersen]

Interesting last couple of responses. If you know our company so well then you should know:

1) Our name is Petersen not Peterson

2) As a Lloyd's COVERHOLDER we hold power of the pen. If you are using a CORRESPONDENT, then you are using someone with very little, if any, authority from Underwriters at Lloyd's.

3) Issues in New York that we require that Crump does not? Do you mean the REGULATORY requirements? How do we know the regulations in New York so well?? We wrote them! If you are missing or omitting this step, or encouraging others to do so, be careful as the NY DOI looks at this closely.

4) It is true there are other access points into the Lloyd's market. Many of the top brokerage outlets can help as well as other Coverholders or even Correspondents.

Bottom line, work with people you trust!

 

[scagnt83]

2) As a Lloyd's COVERHOLDER we hold power of the pen. If you are using a CORRESPONDENT, then you are using someone with very little, if any, authority from Underwriters at Lloyd's.

Could you explain the difference between a Coverholder and a Correspondent?

Also, do you guys contract direct or just through IMOs? I have used an IMO for you in the past... am I getting a haircut on comp by going that route?

Thanks for the info.

 

[TPetersen]

Certainly

A Coverholder is granted authority from various Underwriting syndicates at Lloyd's to do certain things such as design, underwrite, administer, pay commissions, pay taxes, collect premiums, etc. Much like a "Program Manager" in the Property and Casualty world. A Coverholder can go to the "Open Market" when something exceeds its binding authority.

A Correspondent is an is an insurance intermediary, that does not have the status of a Lloyd's approved coverholder and that introduces business to Lloyd's, either directly or through a Lloyd's broker for placement at Lloyd's on an open market basis.

As to commissions -

Most brokerage agencies we work with will pay the same commissions to the writing producer that we would. There may be some exceptions to that rule, but more times than not, the brokerage agency will be more than fair and can also offer other products and services through other carriers that may be an advantage.

This is not intended to be a commercial, but based upon the question of commissions direct versus through a brokerage outlet. I cannot speak to other Lloyd's outlets as there seems to be commission ranges all over the board.

 

[scagnt83]

Certainly

A Coverholder is granted authority from various Underwriting syndicates at Lloyd's to do certain things such as design, underwrite, administer, pay commissions, pay taxes, collect premiums, etc. Much like a "Program Manager" in the Property and Casualty world. A Coverholder can go to the "Open Market" when something exceeds its binding authority.

A Correspondent is an is an insurance intermediary, that does not have the status of a Lloyd's approved coverholder and that introduces business to Lloyd's, either directly or through a Lloyd's broker for placement at Lloyd's on an open market basis.

So does a Correspondent have to run their business through a Coverholder? Or are they just more limited in their flexibility of issuing coverage or creating products?

Thanks for the info!

 

[somarco]

https://www.lloyds.com/the-market/i-am-a/delegated-authority/about-coverholders

Coverholders - Lloyd's - The world

Coverholders - Lloyd's - The world

Only listing for Crump is in Bermuda ....... no binding authority