Mass Mutual

[Justin Bilyj]

I posted in the life forums about their life products, I wanted to ask the DI gurus here about their experience with Mass' Disability/ltc product. The good bad and ugly. How are their rates and definitions?

Appreciate any help!

 

[Mark In NC]

The new Extended Partial Rider ... excellent. Very good contract all-in-all, for the professional/executive market ... also, is a participating contract ... dividends payable after 5 years. One of

 

[BNTRS]

Typically pricier and lower quality vs. Berkshire/Guardian

 

[Mark In NC]

Typically pricier and lower quality vs. Berkshire/Guardian

Have you done a side-by-side comparison of the NEW extended partial rider from MM with the Guardian/Berkshire? The new MM definition will pay potentially more and sooner, than the G/B, under the new definitions. I don't think you can claim that G/B is superior quality/defns. G/B may be priced slightly lower, but, the potentially greater benefits from a residual/partial claim w/ MM seem worth it ... also, MM's DI is participating (projected to get back about 10% of premiums, starting after 5 yrs in most states) ; Guardian's is not.

Here's an example of how MM's contract is potentially more generous in partial/residual claims situation: during 1st 6 months' of dis., (including the WP), the clock starts ticking for benefits, in any of these 3 situations:

1) unable to do one or more duties of occ, OR
2)suffer a loss of time of at least 15%, OR
3)loss of at least 15% income, due to dis.

NB: someone can begin the clock ticking for benefits, without having to show loss of income (incl EP) for 1st six months ...

Also, cf. the ways that pre-disability earnings are calculated/indexed: MM has a much more generous look-back scenario; depending on the earnings history, a person on claim could receive substantially more in income under MM defn. than G/B.

 

[Justin Bilyj]

Have you done a side-by-side comparison of the NEW extended partial rider from MM with the Guardian/Berkshire? The new MM definition will pay potentially more and sooner, than the G/B, under the new definitions. I don't think you can claim that G/B is superior quality/defns. G/B may be priced slightly lower, but, the potentially greater benefits from a residual/partial claim w/ MM seem worth it ... also, MM's DI is participating (projected to get back about 10% of premiums, starting after 5 yrs in most states) ; Guardian's is not.

Here's an example of how MM's contract is potentially more generous in partial/residual claims situation: during 1st 6 months' of dis., (including the WP), the clock starts ticking for benefits, in any of these 3 situations:

1) unable to do one or more duties of occ, OR
2)suffer a loss of time of at least 15%, OR
3)loss of at least 15% income, due to dis.

NB: someone can begin the clock ticking for benefits, without having to show loss of income (incl EP) for 1st six months ...

Also, cf. the ways that pre-disability earnings are calculated/indexed: MM has a much more generous look-back scenario; depending on the earnings history, a person on claim could receive substantially more in income under MM defn. than G/B.

Awesome response. Their ltcaccess rider is a hot item I heard as well. Can you talk more about the par di? How does that work?

 

[Mark In NC]

Mass Mutual, as a mutual ins. co., is owned by the policyholders; their whole life portfolio is participating; ie., eligible for dividends ... but, they also have declared their DI portfolio as eligible for dividends.

They allow for dividend participation after 5 years (in most states) on their DI portfolio, and, on their DI illustration, they actually illustrate the dividend. The cash dividend is currently illustrating at about 10% of the DI premium, starting after 5 years. Dividends are not guaranteed, but the fact that MM illustrates is telling.

Guardian, while also a mutual ins. co., with par whole life, does not pay dividends on their DI portfolio, by the way.

 

[BNTRS]

I can't remember did I say typically or definitely?

Here's the deal, I spreadsheet everything. I've compared the two numerous times and Berkshire tends to beat them on price when we make an apples to apples comparison even accounting for the dividend and the extended partial rider.

I'm not saying they are bad, just that we've noticed we often can get similar or better coverage for less money elsewhere.

Great whole life carrier, we write a good bit of business with them on that product.

 

[Justin Bilyj]

How competitive is their 10/20 term when comparing other conversion to par products?

 

[Ron Van D]

How competitive is their 10/20 term when comparing other conversion to par products?

Go to Term4Sale - Instant Term Life Insurance Comparisons and compare Ohio National's PLUS policy to them. Also, Cincinnati Life allows conversion to any current life product (by current company policy, not by contract as with ON).