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Old 05-08-2016, 11:08 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by scagnt83 View Post
He means that Mass pays dividends on policies other than just WL. I dont think the DI starts receiving Dividends until year 5 if I remember correctly. It is simply an internal calculation though and does not build CV or anything. They say it can help to offset premiums.... but I have never come across someone with Mass DI that has had reductions in premiums due to dividends... hopefully it does happen though.

With the Discounts he means that Mass gives multi-policy discounts. So if you have a DI and a Life policy they will give you a 10% discount on each.


But when it comes to policy vs. policy from a benefits standpoint, Guardian beats Mass easily.

Just from what I can remember, Guardian has a stronger:

- Definition of Disability

- Residual Disability Benefit

- Waiver of Premium

- Waiver of Elim Period

- Occupational therapy and home modification benefit (Mass only covers therapy, no home mods at all)

- Auto increase rider

- Guardian also has more COLA options to choose from than Mass. So it is more customization for the situation and needs.

Guardian also offers a lump sum option and I dont think Mass offers that either.


Mass is a great carrier, especially for life and ltci. But Guardian beats their DI pretty much every day of the week without question. Same for The Standard. jmho

Thanks SC, good info. Yeah I know several carriers offer discounts (ON does as well). Do you mean Guardian beats Standard, or Standard beats Mass?
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Old 05-08-2016, 12:09 PM   #12
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White Collar Bus Owner
Originally Posted by pfg1 View Post

Thanks SC, good info. Yeah I know several carriers offer discounts (ON does as well). Do you mean Guardian beats Standard, or Standard beats Mass?
Meant that Guardian beats Standard.

You will find that most IMOs are going to push Standard and not Guardian. Mainly because they get paid basically next to nothing on overrides from Guardian. Same with Mass, they pay very little overrides so most IMOs will never recommend them.

Standard, Ameritas, and Mass are the ones that can really compete with Guardian. Assurity is also surprisingly competitive, especially for white collar guys who have to do field work (which can knock Standard/Guardian/Mass out of the running). But if you really compare the nitty gritty details of each benefit offered, Guardian has a slight edge or is equal in most all situations. Ive found Guardian to beat Standard on price many times as well... Im not saying they are always more expensive, but the times Ive shopped them they were pricey once you add on the Riders needed to match the Guardian policy.

jmho
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Last edited by scagnt83; 05-08-2016 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 05-10-2016, 04:30 PM   #13
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BNTRS on White Collar Bus Owner
 
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I'll echo the Berkshire (Guardian) recommendations with one caveat. He's 50, unless he has a super clean medical history this is going to be a tough case especially with Guardian and likely with everyone else.

Some important things to note:

1. Job title doesn't matter in DI underwriting, duties do. Business owner is tricky because it's so broad. There are a multitude of occ-class enhancements available so nailing down specifically what he does is important.

2. I don't know that I would hold pure own-occ in super high regard here. It's likely that what he does has a degree of developed specialty to it, but he's unlikely to get disabled and do something else that's worth doing if he can't do what he's currently doing. Modified own-occ at a minimum would be a must. This means definition of disability is that he qualifies if he loses the ability to perform his material and substantial duties but will only be paid if he does not chose to work elsewhere for pay.

3. There's a strong likelihood this case will be tough to place based on his age.

4. Most important rider you can offer him is residual (partial) disability. If you are looking to cut cost, all others should be dropped before this.

5. There's a strong likelihood this case will be tough to place based on his age.

6. Since he's a business owner, financial underwriting is likely to be nit picky. Exactly how he classifies his income to the IRS will impact how much coverage an insurer is willing to issue him. Get ready for a very intrusive process.


One last note, there's a strong likelihood that this case will be difficult to place based on his age.

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Old 05-11-2016, 05:13 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by BNTRS View Post
I'll echo the Berkshire (Guardian) recommendations with one caveat. He's 50, unless he has a super clean medical history this is going to be a tough case especially with Guardian and likely with everyone else.

Some important things to note:

1. Job title doesn't matter in DI underwriting, duties do. Business owner is tricky because it's so broad. There are a multitude of occ-class enhancements available so nailing down specifically what he does is important.

2. I don't know that I would hold pure own-occ in super high regard here. It's likely that what he does has a degree of developed specialty to it, but he's unlikely to get disabled and do something else that's worth doing if he can't do what he's currently doing. Modified own-occ at a minimum would be a must. This means definition of disability is that he qualifies if he loses the ability to perform his material and substantial duties but will only be paid if he does not chose to work elsewhere for pay.

3. There's a strong likelihood this case will be tough to place based on his age.

4. Most important rider you can offer him is residual (partial) disability. If you are looking to cut cost, all others should be dropped before this.

5. There's a strong likelihood this case will be tough to place based on his age.

6. Since he's a business owner, financial underwriting is likely to be nit picky. Exactly how he classifies his income to the IRS will impact how much coverage an insurer is willing to issue him. Get ready for a very intrusive process.


One last note, there's a strong likelihood that this case will be difficult to place based on his age.
Thank you, good info. Appreciate it.

Obviously you feel this might be hard to place due to his age. Just curious as to why?
Based on what he told me, and his physical attributes, he's in very good health and his income is pretty good. What would make someone an ideal candidate for DI (beyond being really young and super healthy)? Thanks
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:28 AM   #15
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White Collar Bus Owner Re: White Collar Bus Owner
Originally Posted by pfg1 View Post
I have a prospect interested in DI covg. He owns a software developing / engineering business. Decent income prob $20k/mo give or take.

What companies should I look at? I don't do much in this area, not sure if there is a stand out leader for this guy. Excellent health, 50yrs old, in VA.

I'm contracted with ON and MoO, will check w them.
Thanks in advance!
I would to go through a GA that represents multiple carriers, this way you can make sure you are getting the best coverage for your client. It is really hard to say that 1 disability carrier is better then others as they all have their strong spots and it all depends on duties, age, health and what options you are looking for.
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Old 05-11-2016, 09:47 AM   #16
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White Collar Bus Owner Re: White Collar Bus Owner
Originally Posted by pfg1 View Post
Thank you, good info. Appreciate it.

Obviously you feel this might be hard to place due to his age. Just curious as to why?
Based on what he told me, and his physical attributes, he's in very good health and his income is pretty good. What would make someone an ideal candidate for DI (beyond being really young and super healthy)? Thanks
The older someone gets, the more "issues" they have.

That minor back issue that happened 5 years ago that the doctor prescribed a total of 10 muscle relaxers for... well that "minor" issue could be a BIG issue to a DI underwriter.... and chances are that your client has forgotten about that by now.

That recent "soreness" in their hand that the client mentions on the phone interview.... well you need to go get the doctor to make sure its not arthritis before they will issue the policy. And of course the client doesnt tell you about that before hand either... but the way the PHI questions read, they often ask about "recent physical ailments" and then often even list out various suggestions.

It is totally different than Life UW from a physical condition standpoint. Someone can be disabled but still live a very long life. So DI looks at a heck of a lot more adverse possibilities than life UW does. General rule of thumb with DI, the older they are, the more likely it is to have a surprise during UW... I know its that way for life too, but its like that x5 with DI.


But dont let any of that discourage you. Just pre-screen his health VERY well first. Guardian has great regional sales reps that can help you out with pre-screening questionnaires and can give you an idea of if he is insurable and at what rate class and occupation class.

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Originally Posted by fjohnston View Post
I would to go through a GA that represents multiple carriers, this way you can make sure you are getting the best coverage for your client. It is really hard to say that 1 disability carrier is better then others as they all have their strong spots and it all depends on duties, age, health and what options you are looking for.
I agree that a good GA can help with shopping cases and finding suitable carriers. But the majority of DI GAs are not going to recommend Guardian or Mass. So agents should still take what their GA says with a serious grain of salt or two.

But you are correct that they all have their sweet spots for job duties. But when it comes to features and benefits of the contracts, that is very easy to compare from one carrier to another.
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Old 05-11-2016, 01:34 PM   #17
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White Collar Bus Owner Re: White Collar Bus Owner
Love me some Guardian. Agree with everything BNTRS said.

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Old 05-12-2016, 11:48 AM   #18
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White Collar Bus Owner Re: White Collar Bus Owner
Originally Posted by scagnt83 View Post
I agree that a good GA can help with shopping cases and finding suitable carriers. But the majority of DI GAs are not going to recommend Guardian or Mass. So agents should still take what their GA says with a serious grain of salt or two.

But you are correct that they all have their sweet spots for job duties. But when it comes to features and benefits of the contracts, that is very easy to compare from one carrier to another.
I guess that depends on the depth and knowledge of the GA. If the GA specializes in DI and they carry Berkshire-Guardian contracts, they would be remiss if they did not quote and recommend them to the client. Mass has its own classification and pricing based on classes too; but head to head, contract to contract, Guardian's is stronger in some key areas (residual and COLA among them). However, there are times that the pricing (and classification) are better with Standard, Principal, MetLife, or one of the other players that it may be impossible to sell but the recommendation has to be made.

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Old 05-12-2016, 10:21 PM   #19
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White Collar Bus Owner
It's a shame that a GA is not offering the best carriers. The question is why not? Trouble with the contract or money? I work with a smaller BGA but great MassMutual contact and Guardian and the best carriers. I don't have to get the contacts but doesn't seem they are hard to find for the right distributor.
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Old 05-13-2016, 07:29 AM   #20
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David Block on White Collar Bus Owner
 
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White Collar Bus Owner Re: White Collar Bus Owner
As we all know, GA's work on overrides based on production. The smaller GA's usually can't (or wont) offer anything where the override is not substantial. This creates a definite conflict, in my opinion, with those agencies that are more concerned with contract than compensation. That said, no GA can survive without sufficient production from its field force and with DI, that is not easy. Most agents shy away from this product as it is:

1) Time consuming to sell.
2) Expensive (from the consumer's standpoint).
3) Not understood by the agent/field force (how do you collect benefits ... it is not like life insurance where collection is simple).
4) There are many moving parts and the underwriting is arduous.

Not to mention that the learning curve is steep unless the GA is willing to help you understand what is being sold. So ... it may be 'easy' to find a good distributor but not easy to find one that puts your client first.
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