Re: Do I Feed Family or Pay Insurance Premiums?Go to Top
There might be other areas the client can cut back on instead of their insurance.
Example, try cutting off that cell phone, cable tv, and sell your bass boat.
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Mark Rosenthal aka markingriffin
IMO/Ins Agent/Agent Trainer/Free Advice markcrosenthal@aol.comwww.realfastservice.com
Please visit mywebsite to learn more about me.
Email me for my Free Prospecting MP3 Tapes.
This is why the experts say we should have 6 months living expenses saved and liquid. About 20 years ago I lost my job and had no health insurance and no income. My wife didn't work and we had three children at home. That was a lot of fun!
Re: Do I Feed Family or Pay Insurance Premiums?Go to Top
Originally Posted by Markingriffin
There might be other areas the client can cut back on instead of their insurance.
Example, try cutting off that cell phone, cable tv, and sell your bass boat.
Cell phone might save $600 a year.
Cable TV might save $800 a year.
I just left Florida (Palm Beach) after a two week stay for Thanksgiving. I'm in the boat market right now (36-40 foot Nordic Tug or MainShip live-aboard craft.) The folks at the Old Port Cove Marina (a broker there, actually) said that boats (all boats) are languishing on sale for months (many months!) I'm told that some boat owners are even setting their boats adrift as they can't pay the insurance, the mooring fee or out-of-water storage (often necessary when a hurricane comes along.)
When your health premium is $420 a month (as my Blue Shield 4000 HSA IFP is) and you are out of work and get $1,000 a month unemployment insurance for 26 weeks... I think you can keep the plan with very smart budgeting... but for most people it will be very difficult to spend 50% of their after-tax income on health insurance... assuming they have rent or mortgage to pay, that they have a car to maintain, and that they eat at least two meals a days.
And even if you CAN spend the $420 a month, where is the deduct going to come from (assuming, as most people, you don't have or never funded an HSA?)
The answer (or at least one answer) is a two-tier, or public-private choice system similar to England's NHS.
It has been working fairly well since 1948. It's not perfect but I travel across the pond a lot and I never heard of anyone in the UK having to eat cat food so they can see their doctor and take their meds.
Our system is broken beyond repair and no one here wants to acknowledge it. Everyone in the system is part of the problem... the docs, the hospitals, the TPAs, the politicians, the agents, the WFI-like copy services, the carriers... everyone except the nurses who are on the bottom rung of the system (but who do the most work! (My wife was a nurse for 30 years before she was crippled by arthritis.))
Why won't anyone (especially in this venue) acknowledge the dysfunction of our system?
Simple.
Follow the money.
And if, as Rick says, it makes you mad or angry that I post it, well, I'm not afraid to speak truth to power. I'm also not stupid enough to believe that this system is sustainable and will continue for they rest of my career (and surely not for you younger folks.)
Mark my words. Learn to sell a non-healthcare financial product. You will thank me in a few years (or maybe months!)
Re: Do I Feed Family or Pay Insurance Premiums?Go to Top
At the risk of being labeled and feathered, I tend to lean in the direction al is suggesting.
Simply stating that better financial planning, savings, and having 6 months living expenses socked away is the answer, is not realistic or helpful after the fact. We are facing record unemployment and an really long recovery period. Assuming the luxuries are sacrificed first, the health insurance whether it is cobra, or not, is going to be considered a luxury when compared to housing, heat and food.
I lost my insurance years ago during a Cobra period. I cashed in 401k's, savings, home equity, ect until I could no longer afford Cobra. I can't buy real health insurance because of pre-existing conditions. Luckily I qualified for VA benefits and my wife stayed healthy until we were able to purchase an individual policy for her. I am one of the lucky ones.
To simply judge folks less fortunate, possibly less disciplined, and less healthy than you and decide they should have purchased health insurance with their last penny or had savings that can sustain them for a year or more of unforeseen circumstance, is perhaps pretentious and is certainly unrealistic. That theory and attitude is going to be tested over the next couple years with the recession/depression period we have entered.
We provide subsidized healthcare for the old and poor. We indirectly pay for the unpaid medical costs of those who can not pay, and yet we judge those who are not in the luxurious position of having a secure and high paying job with benefits? Without a universal solution that gives the opportunity to purchase or earn subsized healthcare coverage to those without, we will pay for them the hard way at inflated rates on down the line.
We have to get the medical system under control. Socialized medicine? We already have it for the old and poor and those working for larger employers. Give the rest of us a pool to join or a system to take part in. I don't want free healthcare for everyone, but I want everyone to have healthcare that meets minimum standards.
Believe it or not, I am conservative by nature and by politics.
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Chuck
If you think your boss is stupid, remember: you wouldn't have a job if he was any smarter.”
Re: Do I Feed Family or Pay Insurance Premiums?Go to Top
Gah, just short of the number of posts required to be able to post a URL. And here I am, just having written a headline article on my website about the very topic of this thread. I feel...impotent.
Anyway, the gist of it is this: going without health insurance is a gamble, and the house almost always wins. Chuck is right -- I'm not trying to maintain an elitist stance over people without health insurance, but I very strongly believe that if you can get it, then it should be one of the very first things you budget for.
The full article is the headline article (The Unaffordable Health Insurance Myth) on the website listed in my signature. I hate to plug myself like that, but any other contribution I made to this thread would essentially be a copy and paste of that.
Re: Do I Feed Family or Pay Insurance Premiums?Go to Top
Originally Posted by al3
Cell phone might save $600 a year.
Cable TV might save $800 a year.
I just left Florida (Palm Beach) after a two week stay for Thanksgiving. I'm in the boat market right now (36-40 foot Nordic Tug or MainShip live-aboard craft.) The folks at the Old Port Cove Marina (a broker there, actually) said that boats (all boats) are languishing on sale for months (many months!) I'm told that some boat owners are even setting their boats adrift as they can't pay the insurance, the mooring fee or out-of-water storage (often necessary when a hurricane comes along.)
When your health premium is $420 a month (as my Blue Shield 4000 HSA IFP is) and you are out of work and get $1,000 a month unemployment insurance for 26 weeks... I think you can keep the plan with very smart budgeting... but for most people it will be very difficult to spend 50% of their after-tax income on health insurance... assuming they have rent or mortgage to pay, that they have a car to maintain, and that they eat at least two meals a days.
And even if you CAN spend the $420 a month, where is the deduct going to come from (assuming, as most people, you don't have or never funded an HSA?)
The answer (or at least one answer) is a two-tier, or public-private choice system similar to England's NHS.
It has been working fairly well since 1948. It's not perfect but I travel across the pond a lot and I never heard of anyone in the UK having to eat cat food so they can see their doctor and take their meds.
Our system is broken beyond repair and no one here wants to acknowledge it. Everyone in the system is part of the problem... the docs, the hospitals, the TPAs, the politicians, the agents, the WFI-like copy services, the carriers... everyone except the nurses who are on the bottom rung of the system (but who do the most work! (My wife was a nurse for 30 years before she was crippled by arthritis.))
Why won't anyone (especially in this venue) acknowledge the dysfunction of our system?
Simple.
Follow the money.
And if, as Rick says, it makes you mad or angry that I post it, well, I'm not afraid to speak truth to power. I'm also not stupid enough to believe that this system is sustainable and will continue for they rest of my career (and surely not for you younger folks.)
Mark my words. Learn to sell a non-healthcare financial product. You will thank me in a few years (or maybe months!)
I suggest you do some more research on NHS. The UK hospitals are often filthy, infections are high, the staff are usually unionized and indifferent towards the patients, and many doctors are leaving. The UK has open-borders like the USA which makes the problem far worse.
Ditto for Canada's free system. The wait time for cancer treatment, operations, etc in Canada is very long. They quietly send many patients to America.
The people in America who have the best healthcare are UAW workers and retirees, members of Congress and illegal aliens.
My taxes go towards providing endless free benefits to illegal aliens including healthcare, perscription drugs (not generics either), medicaid/care, SS disability and endless other benefits. This is a main reason why California is broke. Medicaid is also broke.
A better system might be something which is closer to our system in Germany or Switzerland but they are a bit more responsible about their health in both countries. It is private insurance.
If you provide something for free - you have to ration it and the quality goes down. There are basic plans that employed people can afford if it was a higher priority to them versus cable TV, a new flat screen TV, cell phone service and other money wasted.
Another problem in this country is people think the govt should be responsible for making us immortal. It is sad but when you get towards you late 70's and beyond you have been luckier than many others. I do not see anything in the Constitution where the govt should try to keep an 85 year alive forever. For all of us, eventually time is up.
I go wild seeing seniors saying how they care so much for their grandchildren and then they vote at the ballot for more govt "compassion" for illegals & more govt programs etc.
The end result is they will leave their grandchildren with a bill that will come due probably sooner than later. If you want a good example of how this can end look at Argentina. Last month the govt voted to essentially take citizens private pension plans.
Health care does not have to be expensive. The least expensive health care is prevention. Given that roughly 80% or chronic illness is preventable, it is better to start by taking better care of your body.
Beyond that, most primary care and even maintenance meds are not that expensive. The only time health care really becomes expensive is when you have something major occur and don't have insurance.
Going without, at the very least, cat cover (when you are insurable), is just plain stupid.
Re: Do I Feed Family or Pay Insurance Premiums?Go to Top
Originally Posted by somarco
Here's the link, Nick
Health care does not have to be expensive. The least expensive health care is prevention. Given that roughly 80% or chronic illness is preventable, it is better to start by taking better care of your body.
Beyond that, most primary care and even maintenance meds are not that expensive. The only time health care really becomes expensive is when you have something major occur and don't have insurance.
Going without, at the very least, cat cover (when you are insurable), is just plain stupid.
Health care does not have to be expensive. The least expensive health care is prevention. Given that roughly 80% or chronic illness is preventable, it is better to start by taking better care of your body.
Beyond that, most primary care and even maintenance meds are not that expensive. The only time health care really becomes expensive is when you have something major occur and don't have insurance.
Going without, at the very least, cat cover (when you are insurable), is just plain stupid.
Excellent post. People think they can eat as much as they want, smoke, drink and do no exercise then take a pill to make it all better. Our bodies are like a car. If you take care of it, put good gas in it and change the oil then it will last a long time.
People can get cat coverage policies and get rid of the cable TV. Send the illegals home too. They drive up health care costs, depress wages for working class Americans and suck up money for other programs that should go to Americans.
Through the free market - people can get many perscription drugs for $4 at Wal Mart and other places. A study showed asprin is as effective as Plavix for heart disease.
If people take care of themselves, get some exercise by walking and buy cheap dumb bell freeweights to exercise their muscles they can be very healthy going into retirement as well. The fountain of youth is exercise, a good diet and keeping your weight down.
Re: Do I Feed Family or Pay Insurance Premiums?Go to Top
This discussion reminds me of the time that our church was asked to help a couple who were going to have their natural gas (heat) shut off shortly after Christmas. I asked the couple if they had received any type of Christmas bonus at work. They told me that they had and had used it to buy a big screen TV. This was about 25 years ago and I had a 19" TV. I didn't have a big screen TV but I had a warm house!
I think the ability to afford health insurance has a lot to do with priorities. There is a gentleman who was at one time a very close friend. I have lost touch with him but have learned through his daughter that his wife has breast cancer and they have NO HEALTH insurance. Now I know this gentleman has enough money to take 1-2 golfing trips each year to places like Biolxi and Destin. He also eats out at nice restaurants, pays green fees and rents a cart at least once per week. He also has nice golf clubs and accessories. I also know that he was always irresponsible and made poor decisions. The business he owns was at one time very profitable and he blew a wad of money.
There are pros and cons on both sides of this argument. At one time in this nation we believed that each one of us was responsible for our ownselves. Now we think the government should rescue everyone who is in a tight spot. I don't think the government can rescue everybody no matter how hard they try.
Re: Do I Feed Family or Pay Insurance Premiums?Go to Top
Originally Posted by xrac
This discussion reminds me of the time that our church was asked to help a couple who were going to have their natural gas (heat) shut off shortly after Christmas. I asked the couple if they had received any type of Christmas bonus at work. They told me that they had and had used it to buy a big screen TV. This was about 25 years ago and I had a 19" TV. I didn't have a big screen TV but I had a warm house!
Similar experience with this.... Some years back I owned a small hotel. We would occassionally have a local church call and ask if we had rooms, and when we did they would say that they were paying for up to 2 or 3 nts room for X, as they were destitute... Almost w/o fail, housekeeping would be hauling an abundance of empy beer bottles out of the room daily. Seemed to always be problems with these freebees, and we finally told the church that we would no longer accept them, due to these problems.
Of course the minister thought we were too harsh, not giving these poor folks a chance when they were down, but they were obviously down for a reason. Simple choice, shelter or beer... they made theirs, and knowing that they could bilk the local churches easily for assistance.
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"A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him." David Brinkley
Re: Do I Feed Family or Pay Insurance Premiums?Go to Top
Originally Posted by somarco
Most (but not all) people are poor because they make poor choices. Give them a windfall and in 6 months they will be poor again.
When will we learn that some folks don't need cash, they need a kick in the butt.
25 yrs ago a big screen TV (at least in my house) was a 30 inch set (which I still have in the den).
I once read a quote something to the effect that if you took all of the money in the world and divided it equally amongst the people and checked on everyone in a year's time, all of the rich people would be rich again and all of the poor people would be poor again. Oh how true it is...
Do I Feed Family or Pay Insurance Premiums?
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