Insurance Agent Forum

Originally Posted by SportsNut

And you got your economics degree from which WalMart store...?

Dependency is the very reason we are in this fix today. We have had it way too easy for many, many years. Lots of cheap gas, and other raw materials. Now comes China with it's HUGE and ever increasing demand for oil... it has placed the manufacturing and refinery capacities to max just to stay even; NO surplus at all. So it is this increased demand and dependence on others who decide whether they will throttle up more production or not... and in this case, NOT.

So prices go HIGHER.

Unfortuantely we will NOT drill for more oil here... this is simple postulating on the part of politicians from all sides. Even if we did drill the time curve on delivery is years and years down the road, so there will be no immediate impact, other than on psychology of the marketplace, not true and actual supply.

See, I got my economics degree from K-Mart, and it was a Super-K at that.

I've actually never been to a Wal-Mart. What's it like? I've heard great stories about how well they treat their employees. Maybe they will be able to give us lower gas prices?

Demand is supposed to lower prices. Ipod comes out, Ipod is $300+, Ipod gets very, very popular and now is affordable. Iphone is the same... watch for the new pricing structure. I believe the new version will be $199. Plasma TV's, same thing.

Demand is supposed to lower the price. I will say it again.

My question to you then is, how is it that:

1: Demand is the highest it has ever been for oil (you said so yourself)

2: Regardless what you think and say, we are NOT in a shortage. Once again, when is the last time you needed gas and could not get it.

Yet gas prices continue to surge.

Wonder who we can blame for that?

Once again... drilling here does nothing to lower the cost of oil. Ask yourself who will still control that oil.....

[arnguy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Bill

I have to admit I have very mixed feelings about all of this. Cheap gas has allowed the suburbinization of our cities, which in many cases has led to serious decline of the cities/inner cities/school systems, etc. I know of people who regularly commuted 3-4 hours per day, not using public transportation. Is that "right"? I would have to say, environmentally, not so. I'm not convinced that offshore drilling is the right thing to do, yet.

I also haven't been convinced that the concept of "peak oil" doesn't hold water. Therefore, I believe Bush was right telling the Saudis to diversify their economy or plan to fall into ruin. I would hope that the entrepreneurial spirit of America would lead to energy independence, because at these rates, the Chinese and Indians will be looking for their own energy independence as well! So short term, this really sucks big time but longer term I hope we all change.

Agreed.

[padthaiforlunch]

If we carpet bomb China, that would solve our problems, too! One less consumer of oil and lots of jobs making munitions.

Nothing says 'blood for oil' like carpet bombing.

Keep watching Fox Noise and you will end up like this:









We can only hope she will return to protect us from the lunatic fringe.



Let's see how smart you really are....
The Dumb Test

[Winter]

[quote=TimLett;77438 I am starting to consider how it would be to raise the voter age to 35. -[/quote]

Let's see now. A guy is 18 and in Iraq but can't vote until he is 35. Not sure I would want to be out on the campaign trail with that one.

Winter

[SportsNut]

Originally Posted by nate124

I've actually never been to a Wal-Mart. What's it like? I've heard great stories about how well they treat their employees. Maybe they will be able to give us lower gas prices?

Demand is supposed to lower prices. Ipod comes out, Ipod is $300+, Ipod gets very, very popular and now is affordable. Iphone is the same... watch for the new pricing structure. I believe the new version will be $199. Plasma TV's, same thing.

Demand is supposed to lower the price. I will say it again.

My question to you then is, how is it that:

1: Demand is the highest it has ever been for oil (you said so yourself)

2: Regardless what you think and say, we are NOT in a shortage. Once again, when is the last time you needed gas and could not get it.

Yet gas prices continue to surge.

Wonder who we can blame for that?

Once again... drilling here does nothing to lower the cost of oil. Ask yourself who will still control that oil.....

Nate:

I think you are confused about the economy of scale for mass manufacturing and the effect that it has on prices, versus a natural resource like oil. But on the other hand, it isn't demand that drives the price of the ipod down, but the supply and the ability to produce more at much lower prices and still make large margins on the sales, which equals humongous profits in total. If we could manufacture oil, applying some of the same principles that Apple or any other manufacturer can and does, the price of oil would be considerably lower than it is now. But unfortuantely the only manufacturing that is done is converting oil into gas via refining. We as a country are sadly lacking in refinery capacity, which again limits our ability to mass produce the oil into gas and other by-products.

To your question of when I sat in a gas line...? 1973, that is when. Gas was $ 1.50 per gallon, so if you adjust that for inflation it would equate to about 6 bucks per gallon today. I think that is the picure of me sitting in line... (NOT).



The way it worked in most places was based on the last digit of your license plate. Odd could buy on M-W-F, even could buy on T-Th-S... as example.

We are foolish as a nation, and foolish as a group of people for NOT demanding leadership to pursue alternate means of enrgy. The way things have worked is that prices have been ridiculously LOW for many years following such a crisis, so we have been lulled off to sleep. Now we awake again and belly-ache when prices spiral again... but we have done nothing to ward off the repetition of the pain... poor planning, and this points at ALL sides of the political spectrum, not just one or the other...

Read up on the Oil Embargo of 1973...
1973 oil crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by SportsNut

Nate:

I think you are confused about the economy of scale for mass manufacturing and the effect that it has on prices, versus a natural resource like oil. But on the other hand, it isn't demand that drives the price of the ipod down, but the supply and the ability to produce more at much lower prices and still make large margins on the sales, which equals humongous profits in total. If we could manufacture oil, applying some of the same principles that Apple or any other manufacturer can and does, the price of oil would be considerably lower than it is now. But unfortuantely the only manufacturing that is done is converting oil into gas via refining. We as a country are sadly lacking in refinery capacity, which again limits our ability to mass produce the oil into gas and other by-products.

To your question of when I sat in a gas line...? 1973, that is when. Gas was $ 1.50 per gallon, so if you adjust that for inflation it would equate to about 6 bucks per gallon today. I think that is the picure of me sitting in line... (NOT).



The way it worked in most places was based on the last digit of your license plate. Odd could buy on M-W-F, even could buy on T-Th-S... as example.

We are foolish as a nation, and foolish as a group of people for NOT demanding leadership to pursue alternate means of enrgy. The way things have worked is that prices have been ridiculously LOW for many years following such a crisis, so we have been lulled off to sleep. Now we awake again and belly-ache when prices spiral again... but we have done nothing to ward off the repetition of the pain... poor planning, and this points at ALL sides of the political spectrum, not just one or the other...

Read up on the Oil Embargo of 1973...
1973 oil crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1: I do understand economics far more than you seem to give me credit for. We seem to disagree with how economics come in to play regarding oil... which is fine. Agree to disagree.

2: 1973 was 25 years ago. I'm not talking about then. I'm talking about now. And right now, you can get gas whenever and wherever you want. Once again, if you have proof otherwise, by all means let me know and I'll back down on this one.

3: To me, "alternative means of energy" does not mean "drill in Alaska".

Originally Posted by TimLett

It is amazing. The more I live and learn, the more I realize the incompetent of a huge segment of the voter base. It crosses racial and social lines of all kinds. People don't research issue. People don't understand how policy A leads to reaction B which leads to outcome C. Its amazing. -- You know, we have an age limit on running for president. I am starting to consider how it would be to raise the voter age to 35. -- Yep, I know the flamers will have fun with this. But, I am wondering why those with no real life and real world experience should be making decisions concerning the offices of the most powerful people on the planet.

I'm not saying that there should or should not be a change. Just throwing it out there for discussion...hopefully, civil discussion without name-calling.

Just in case you guys don't understand.... let me explain what the above means....

"I hate the youth. The young people in our country are stupid. Kids are worthless. People under the age of 35 don't know anything at all about anything at all. Once you hit the age of 35, you are amazing at everything. Finally, once people turn 35, they automatically agree with me about everything because I am Tim. Hear me roar."

[SportsNut]

Originally Posted by nate124

1: I do understand economics far more than you seem to give me credit for. We seem to disagree with how economics come in to play regarding oil... which is fine. Agree to disagree.

2: 1973 was 25 years ago. I'm not talking about then. I'm talking about now. And right now, you can get gas whenever and wherever you want. Once again, if you have proof otherwise, by all means let me know and I'll back down on this one.

3: To me, "alternative means of energy" does not mean "drill in Alaska".

1. economics... one of the largest factors in the sprialing price of oil, which effects the cost of gas at the pump, is the devaluation of the dollar. Oil is valued in dollars and the reduced value of each greenback causes the number to rise in exchange for the underlying commodity that the dollar is attempts to purchase... There exists the true exchange rate and an emotional factor (or alarmist premium added). The dollar has been devalued against other currencies 40% since 2002; aka the true cost of the war. Oil is up 40% based upon the sheer exchange rate difference and maybe another 40-60% based upon the emotional reaction to what has gone on...

2. 1973 was 35 years ago... So math isn't your strength, and it is understandable why economics wouldn't be either.

3. I didn't say anything about drilling in AK. As an aside, I was in Fairbanks, AK when we were building the pipeline in 76-77. I was actually there protecting our country on Johnson Rd, Fairbanks, AK, when Pump Station # 8 exploded Jul 8, 1977... But you didn't want to talk about then, just now...
Actually what I meant about us as a people and a country being foolish is that we haven't explored alternate means of energy... Non-fossil fuel types. But for so many years from mid 70's until the past few years, with few exceptions, prices have been cheap, cheap, cheap for oil... We have been lulled to sleep and have taken our eye off the ball, expecting this to continue, with little or NO contingent planning. We deserve what we are getting... poor leadership over the past 40 yrs; that is exactly what it has boiled down to.

Originally Posted by SportsNut

2. 1973 was 35 years ago... So math isn't your strength, and it is understandable why economics wouldn't be either.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sorry.

Why you gotta be mean though, guy? I made a mistake. You ever made one??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????

[Mr. Bill]

Originally Posted by nate124

Just in case you guys don't understand.... let me explain what the above means....

"I hate the youth. The young people in our country are stupid. Kids are worthless. People under the age of 35 don't know anything at all about anything at all. Once you hit the age of 35, you are amazing at everything. Finally, once people turn 35, they automatically agree with me about everything because I am Tim. Hear me roar."

Honestly, when you go Wild and Absurd, it doesn't make you sound wise or smart.

There are many foolish things people do when they're young. Does it mean there's a "magical age" when they turn smart? No. Age is an arbitrary number when it comes to wisdom. There are a lot of many smart people who do stupid or crazy or simply inexplicable things long past the age of 35 (think: Chappaquiddick). A better way perhaps to define "eligible voter" would be to apply a test first.

[TimLett]

Originally Posted by Winter

Let's see now. A guy is 18 and in Iraq but can't vote until he is 35. Not sure I would want to be out on the campaign trail with that one.

Winter

Not everything that is right for the greater good is fair. Its not fair that some made it home from the Revolutionary War and some didn't. But, the greater good was served. Its not fair that some who haven't worked hard are millionaires while others who have worked hard are barely getting by. But, capitalism better serves the greater good. Its not fair that two of my best friends have struggled with cholesterol and other health issues over the last year while I am significantly heavier with a horrible diet...and haven't had the first medical issue. But, that's life.

Yes, we hold individual rights in a high regard...just as we should. But, I seem to remember a grand old document that starts with "We the People....". We must remember that the paramount is what is good for the nation...not a person or group of persons.

With that said...yes, there is something wrong with a guy, age 18, sacrificing his life in Iraq.....and not being able to vote. Anyone of any age with the courage to defend and die for his/her country should be given a voter registration card, on the spot.

But, there is also something wrong with incompetents being able to decide elections when they

• Don't know beans about the issues,
• Wouldn't be able to find FoxNews or CNN with a cable box that was pre-programmed with only those two channels,
• Don't pay taxes
• Haven't voted in 20 years (you get the idea)
• Couldn't tell you who their congressman is
• Couldn't tell you who their senators are
• Don't know their butt from a hole in the ground....

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

[TimLett]

Originally Posted by nate124

Just in case you guys don't understand.... let me explain what the above means....

"I hate the youth. The young people in our country are stupid. Kids are worthless. People under the age of 35 don't know anything at all about anything at all. Once you hit the age of 35, you are amazing at everything. Finally, once people turn 35, they automatically agree with me about everything because I am Tim. Hear me roar."

Never have more untrue words been spoken.
1. I do not hate the youth. I don't even hate classless people on this forum who resort to sending PM's full of vulgar name-calling and childish insults . What I do realize about the younger generations is this: None of them know as much as they think they do because their life experience is limited. When you are younger you have this Utopian idea that your generation can fix the world and that "CHANGE" is all that's needed. I've got news for you - We've been changing crap since we took our first breath on this planet. If "CHANGE", (meaning change alone), would have fixed anything, it would have fixed it before now.

2. All of the younger people in our country are not stupid. However, lack of stupidity, does not indicate the experience and wisdom needed to make good choices.

3. Kids are not worthless. Kids hold the potential to learn, to become wise, to mature, and to move into leadership positions in this great nation. It doesn't mean that they "have arrived" when they are kids.

4. As for the "age of 35" little rant. The "age of 35" was used as a literary tool because it relates to our required age for one to qualify to be President. In no way would reasonable thinking people interpret that to say that 35 is the Age of Enlightenment for the human race in America. My goodness...look at Washington DC where you don't have to look too hard to find people over 35 and in government who are lacking wisdom.

It absolutely amazes me how some people can read one thing and absolutely turn it inside-out. Amazing. Now, that takes maturity, wisdom, and .....aw crap....I knew I couldn't say that with a straight face.

[TimLett]

Originally Posted by Mr. Bill

Honestly, when you go Wild and Absurd, it doesn't make you sound wise or smart.

There are many foolish things people do when they're young. Does it mean there's a "magical age" when they turn smart? No. Age is an arbitrary number when it comes to wisdom. There are a lot of many smart people who do stupid or crazy or simply inexplicable things long past the age of 35 (think: Chappaquiddick). A better way perhaps to define "eligible voter" would be to apply a test first.

And he wants us to believe that he is wise beyond his years, and give him credit because other people have "told him that". Don't you just love it when replies validate your original point. It really lessens the workload.

[Winter]

Originally Posted by TimLett

But, there is also something wrong with incompetents being able to decide elections when they

• Don't know beans about the issues,
• Wouldn't be able to find FoxNews or CNN with a cable box that was pre-programmed with only those two channels,

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

Not me. I just turned on the TV and like a homing pigeon it went right to Julie Banderos on Fox News. I think that she is about the only out of the 50 babes they have on there that is not a blonde. Maybe this other one, Kimberly Gillfoil too is not blonde. Other than that I think they hire them by the dozen. I can name all of them. Therefore I think that I am knowledgeable enough to be able to vote twice. Most of them are pretty smart too.

Winter.