Scroll down for a discussion on Edward Jones vs State Farm within the Getting Started Selling Insurance.
Hi All,
Your prior comments about State Farm opportunities have been enlightening and now I'm reconsidering whether or not to follow thru on their recruitment ...
Your prior comments about State Farm opportunities have been enlightening and now I'm reconsidering whether or not to follow thru on their recruitment process.
I have a background in the P&C industry but am intrigued with financial services (and know some about this industry).
I would like advice on opportunities with Edward Jones.
Do they offer the support in which they claim for new financial advisors?
About how much capital does one need coming into this opportunity? Do you need to buy a book?
Considering our market, is this a good time to become a financial advisor?
And finally, does anyone have anything positive to add about State Farm?
Thanks kindly, I look forward to your responses.
MM
Be ready to exploit, I mean call, your closest 100 friends and family members. Most P&C companies don't sell books anymore, they assign them. I would not expect that unless you are in an area they are desperate for agents.
Ed Jones hires a lot of new FA/agents and hopes a few survive. You will essentially be on your own to generate business no matter what they tell you. What few leads and customers you may be given will not support you or even pay your expenses.
The only place I have come across that will hand you a book, pay for your licensing, schooling and subsidize you the first year is First Command. Great organization and people, but it is a very regimented process. Lots of support and training, but it comes at a cost, a cost you have already decided to endure, which is your independence. I would go there before I would consider the meat grinder at Jones or State Farm.
First let me say that I know nothing about EDJ first hand but only what I have heard from others. If you want extensive opinions go and visit RR. There is very little good said about them there and my opinion is that the general opinion on RR is probably right. But that being said they do offer some good training if you havent been in the business before. You can work there for a year or two get trained and licensed then move on to a real BD or go INDY. My understanding is that EDJ will make you cold walk residential neighborhoods the first year. If you join EDJ just be careful not to drink the kool aid too much.
Be ready to exploit, I mean call, your closest 100 friends and family members.
I can't speak for all the companies, but I can tell you Edward Jones doesn't make you exploit your friends and family. In fact, I'm friends with two Jones reps and they both said there was no emphasis in calling on family and friends during their training. You will be on your own after training, but they give you a system to run with, the rest is up to you. Yes, the system is heavily dependent on door knocking, but I can tell you both of my friends have been fairly successful starting in an area without many contacts.
After you learn the business and build a clientele, you can always transfer to another firm. As much as people talk poorly about Jones, I have a lot of respect for the company and the reps I have come across.
In addition to the previous comments...you go to a week long training in "door knocking", knock on doors for 5 weeks and come back to training and learn to convert those prospects. You are not selling at the door...just introducing yourself. I know a girl who is doing awesome and is appoaching her 5th year and she attributes her fast start to this door knocking. I believe EJ has the highest success rate in the FA industry for newbies...just my opinion though.
The forum that will give you the most insight on EJ is Registered Rep. Broker Forums (hopefully it's ok to post this)
I currently work at at a bank and the VP of the branch that I am at used to be an Eddie Jones Rep. He enjoyed it and said that sometimes he wishes that he hadn't of left. Received an offer for an excellent opportunity at the time. He is now getting ready to retire and is considering to supplement his income by being a fill in rep. Basically if someone is fired, quits or transfers, he would go to that office and run it until a new rep is trained and assigned.
In addition to the previous comments...you go to a week long training in "door knocking", knock on doors for 5 weeks and come back to training and learn to convert those prospects.
I think they have this routine, or at least some have done this, where you go out door knocking before you are licensed and just meet folks and tell them that you are just doing a survey and then you find out where they are at. Then when you are licensed and up and running you go back and sell to them or make them clients or whatever.
I wouldn't do that and I think it is a securities violation but that is just my view.
Winter
------------------------------------ Spending Our Way to Prosperity
Thanks for your comments/suggestions.
JRoot - I did go to Reg Rep and found more helpful insight on EJ.
Now, I need to ask myself: do I play it safe or follow my passion? I guess life's too short to play it safe and I'm pushing 45...Mmmm...I've been playing safe for nearly a half century; time to through caution towards the wind....
Thanks again!
MM
I think they have this routine, or at least some have done this, where you go out door knocking before you are licensed and just meet folks and tell them that you are just doing a survey and then you find out where they are at. Then when you are licensed and up and running you go back and sell to them or make them clients or whatever. I wouldn't do that and I think it is a securities violation but that is just my view. Winter
If you are not licensed I don't see a violation. There was a guy calling Cramer's show on TV saying he was holding a bunch of Bear Stearn's stock and wanted to know if he should sell. Cramer tells him to hold it, it's poised for a jump. 3 days later Bear Stearns tanked. Because Cramer is not licensed and does not charge or sell his services he can give investment advice over the TV and not be held liable.
If you are not licensed I don't see a violation. There was a guy calling Cramer's show on TV saying he was holding a bunch of Bear Stearn's stock and wanted to know if he should sell. Cramer tells him to hold it, it's poised for a jump. 3 days later Bear Stearns tanked. Because Cramer is not licensed and does not charge or sell his services he can give investment advice over the TV and not be held liable.
Cramer's arrangement is not deceptive, not does it have the ultimate goal of soliciting sales so, arguably, it does not fall into the category of the solicitation and sale of securities.
In the Edwards Jones scenarios that I have heard reported, unlicensed newbies go door to door under the guise of just doing a survey about what folks thing about this and that and what financial matters are of interest to them etc. Then they return later as licensed folks and try to turn those interests into business. To me, their "survey" is prospecting pure and simple and disguised solicitation or involvement in a process whose ultimate goal is the sale of securities. It is dangerous ground to try to avoid violating a securities license by not being licensed.
Obviously Edward Jones would not agree but lots of marginal activities are ultimately prohibited so I dont assume that it is acceptable just because the SEC or FINRA have not stopped it yet. In addition, most states have laws that prohibit solicitation or contact with prospects where you fail to disclose that you are an agent or involved in the sale of insurance or securities. Why are they in the house?
In addition, as noted, I still think it is unethical even if it is okay with the feds and the states. I dont want someone doing a "survey" with either a young and naive couple in their 20's not do I want them doing it with my elderly relatives or with anyone elses either. I don't equate moral and ethical with simply not violating a rule or law but acknowledge that this has become an outdated way of thinking.
Your prior comments about State Farm opportunities have been enlightening and now I'm reconsidering whether or not to follow thru on their recruitment process.
I have a background in the P&C industry but am intrigued with financial services (and know some about this industry).
I would like advice on opportunities with Edward Jones.
Do they offer the support in which they claim for new financial advisors?
About how much capital does one need coming into this opportunity? Do you need to buy a book?
Considering our market, is this a good time to become a financial advisor?
And finally, does anyone have anything positive to add about State Farm?
Thanks kindly, I look forward to your responses.
MM
I work in a financial planning office with 2 former EDJ reps. One quit EDJ 5 years ago and is now my boss (I have 2 bosses) and the other was 'let go' in April because he didn't make the EDJ cut (you have to have a certain level of production or you're fired). EDJ is probably a good training ground for someone who wants to get into the business...they help you with your licensing and all that. However, the products/companies they want you to sell is quite limiting. And they have this attitude that if they don't sell it then it's bad stuff. We had one seasoned EDJ rep tell a now former client that a SPIA we sold him was ripping him off. This guy had no idea what a SPIA even is and also didn't have a clue on why the SPIA was better than just taking all of the money out of the fixed annuity it came from (the client had a 50% gain...better to spread the taxes out over 5 years than to get hit with a huge tax bill). We re-explained everything to the client over and over and he seemed to understand but still, the little negative seed was planted and he ended up moving everything to the EDJ guy.
As for your question about the timing of going into financial services...I don't think it's a good time for a newbie to get in the business. Right now people are scared and are less apt to invest--more apt to take money out. We're not even doing much with fixed annuities right now compared to 2002. Money is tight and bills are going up. I know that everything's on sale and can't wait to see the upturn again but a lot of people feel it's different this time--maybe after November it'll be a little better...we'll see.
Remember though, State Farm is proprietary and you can only sell their stuff (unless I have the wrong info---last I knew it was State Farm Mutual Funds and that's it). You won't be able to do a whole lot with financial services. In fact, one of our clients is a State Farm agent because she can't do the stuff we do (other mutual fund companies, stocks, etc).
Oh, one other thing...I don't know if EDJ or State Farm are popular in your area (i.e. one or the other every few blocks) but in case they're not very common there, EDJ isn't shy about setting up several offices in the same areas. Just because there might be 1 or 2 there now doesn't mean they won't add more reps (read more competition for you) soon.
The difference between unlicensed "door knockers" and Kramer is pretty simple... Jim isn't at your door. There's a difference between the two. You have to tune in Jim, the other is at your door.
EDJ is not for experienced reps. Yes you will doorknock for 1st. Comp is 36-40 dependent on product, High cost for in house mutual funds.
You are tied to a small neighborhood office, money is made on volume not clientele.
You are not allowed to have outside business or carriers. All business must be run through EDJ. You cant even have a part time job.
They give u a mentor, corp training etc. and 20k the first year but they own you and your book.
Income estimates assume you hit all bonuses and most reps washout in 3 years.
They give you an office, assistant and tech after about 11 months sooner if you qualify or aspace opens up. Located mostly in strip malls near kroger next to HR block.
Attracts walk in clientele small accounts not big retail or managed accounts.
The key is add clientele each year build up your revenue base but your base is about 20 miles radus of your office.
Too controlling in many ways and EDJ is either loved or hated depending on how well the koolaid tastes
I have a good friend and he just started with their program and loves it after 8 months I would hate it . you arent as range bound when u go to an independent bd
[COLOR=darkred]and due to the fact that a record number of agents are quitting or filing bankruptcy that are on the new contract. Make sure you know the deal before signing up. Find 5 agents that started in 2004 or LATER before you make the mistake of going with them. Just this week they have been having meetings with these new agents all over the country as they are leaving the company in numbers never before seen and why ? GO find out ! contact [/COLOR][COLOR=darkred]www.nasfa.com[/COLOR][COLOR=darkred] as well[/COLOR]
Originally Posted by fastrack1
It is easier than ever to become a SF agent. They are having a shortage of agents due to the large numbers that are at retirement age now.
[b][COLOR=darkred]and due to the fact that a record number of agents are quitting or filing bankruptcy that are on the new contract. Make sure you know the deal before signing up. Find 5 agents that started in 2004 or LATER before you make the mistake of going with them. Just this week they have been having meetings with these new agents all over the country as they are leaving the company in numbers never before seen and why ? GO find out ! contact [[COLOR=darkred]nasfa.com[/COLOR][/url][COLOR=darkred] as well[/COLOR]
I agree somewhat with the above statement. The fact remains though that the older agents are getting out in record numbers, mainly because they can't compete in today's fast paced market, along with the new expectations from SF. I would also highly recommend that you talk with as many agents as you can that are NEW and see what they think. I would discourage you from dealing with NASFA. While they produce good information at times, they are mainly a group of disgruntled agents who gripe a lot. I get their publications and I don't think they are helping to solve the problem. Again, they do provide some good info, but you have to sift through it and I think it would only discourage someone just starting out. Instead, go talk to the new agents who are in the trenches everyday.
Metlife, New York LIfe, Mass Mutual Guardian, American Family, Farmers, Nationwide, Farm Bureau, some local indy agencies, etc. all might be better career choice depending upon where you are at, what you are interested in pursuing, and the local market. Have you considered other opportunities?
[COLOR=blue][COLOR=#0000ff]Yes talk to at least 10 agents that were hired in 2004 when the new deal started. They will have the most insight as to the new contract. I have talked to over 100 of these agents nationwide and most are not happy as they were told many things that were not true.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue]As far as NASFA it has Chairman's circle agents, President club and members of the MDRT. Some of the highest producers in the company are members and its not a disgruntled union at all. [/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue]Agents that were hired in 2004 and now 2005 are leaving in record numbers. The management will not send prospects to new contract agents unless they are still in their first two years. The opportunity could be good again if they change the contract but right now MOST of the new agents that have "walked the walk" would recommend AGAINST it. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=blue]As for the older agents leaving the can because they have a retirement plan in their contract and you and I do not. Unless you contribute you have nothing and you know as well as I do many of the AA34 agents have not been in their offices for years and staff runs it, but they really can't be forced out as the company loses those lawsuits every time. Many of them never retire, why should they ? Now I know the answer do it for the companies future but they feel they paid their dues and will stay until they are dead and gone.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#0000ff]Yes go talk to agents in the trenches just talk again to at least 10 that started in 2004 on the new contract.[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]
Originally Posted by fastrack1
I agree somewhat with the above statement. The fact remains though that the older agents are getting out in record numbers, mainly because they can't compete in today's fast paced market, along with the new expectations from SF. I would also highly recommend that you talk with as many agents as you can that are NEW and see what they think. I would discourage you from dealing with NASFA. While they produce good information at times, they are mainly a group of disgruntled agents who gripe a lot. I get their publications and I don't think they are helping to solve the problem. Again, they do provide some good info, but you have to sift through it and I think it would only discourage someone just starting out. Instead, go talk to the new agents who are in the trenches everyday.
Edward Jones vs State Farm
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