There are a lot of smart people in this thread and all over this forum. What could have been a great debate and exchange of information, has turned into very personal attacks.
I have had a couple of run-ins, but I have never thought of hurting anyone or hurting their business. Everyone has a family.
If someone disagrees with me, it doesn't make them my enemy. It just makes for good conversation and/or debate.
What could have been a good discussion, turned ugly. Assumptions and casual conversations turned into hard and fast facts. Thank you for your common sense.
I understood the point dannydad was making and I agreed with his premise if given the benefit of hindsight. He made a bunch of assumptions and jumped to the conclusion that the clients would never take advantage of the Indexing strategies. The clients may in the future change to one of the Index Strategies, which they have the option to do so annually for the life of the contract, not so with a Fixed only annuity. Either product does what it needs to do to protect the customer and only at the end and with the benefit of hindsight will we know which choice was best.
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Chuck
If you think your boss is stupid, remember: you wouldn't have a job if he was any smarter.”
Because you claimed you turned me into the DOI, my lawyer wanted the site vetted by a "recognized" expert in prep for whatever civil action, if any, she is going to suggest with respect to you.
All your posts here and to every other board on the net is being compiled. These things take time. I don't think any civil action can (or should) be taken against you... unless you have deep pockets... which I doubt, but I'll wait to see what she suggests before I make a final decision.
Your postings in the "Question about a shotgun" thread suggesting I commit suicide has raised a lot of interest this morning such that she thinks all your posts should be sent to the law enforcement authorities for profiling. She thinks you could be the next Virginia Tech killer.
I told her she was exaggerating, that you are just a web-board wise-guy venting some steam, but I was surprised how many people she told me have made postings about violence on the web and have later done something reprehensible.
You really stirred up a hornets nest. Sam told me Sunday that he would honor a court order to 'out' you and my lawyer told me this morning that with your postings suggesting suicide that she can easily get one... although if she turns this over to the feds, it would be their case, not ours.
Personally, I don't want any of this but she thinks you are dangerous and as an officer of the court she sees a responsibility of some kind here to protect the public.
You've cloaked yourself quite well. We've not been able to identify "dannysdad."
At first I thought it was the guy here having some "fun" like he did when he took the identity of "pre-paid-legal" to post here. (I won't "out" him but his mistake was using the same "birthday" on both public profiles on this board.)
Sam has told me he would safeguard your identity (until a court order) but he said you are definitely NOT that other guy... and I agree. That guy is not cloaked and would never go so far as to request someone to kill themselves.
But someone here has... and from my private mail a lot of people think that person went too far.
I don't think anything will come of it as a civil case... me vs. you... but if she sends your posts to the FBI or homeland security, it's way, way out of my hands.
If she thinks, as an officer of the court that you are what she calls a "clear and present danger" (not sure what she means by that) there is nothing I can do to stop her.
I respectfully suggest that you talk with your own lawyer for advice before this spins out of control for you... perhaps for both of us.
The one thing in your favor is that the feds move like snails so you (and your lawyer?) have plenty of time to figure out what you will want to do or say... if anything.
I have to admit, you have me a bit un-nerved. It has been almost ten years since I received something that might resemble a veiled death threat. I don't feel as safe today as I felt before you posted this suicide thing. You sure got MY attention... along with that of a bunch of others.
I don't know why you wanted to go there... and maybe it is important we find out in case you are indeed dangerous. Like I say, I just don't know.
I've written a lot of dumb, stupid things in my 45+ years as a writer (starting on my high school newspaper,) but never that someone should be hurt or killed. Those are boundaries you just don't cross... ever.
..and if you had not made assumptions you would know that my clients are choosing not to participate in the Indexed strategies because of concerns about the economy, not because of my 'putting' them anywhere. They have the option to move into the Index Stratgies each year, but all the bad news and predictions of bad things coming have kept them, by their choice, in the Fixed side. My customers for the last year or two that have chose not to participate in the Index have made 'only' the Fixed Interest, but they have the option and my annual review to educate them to the possibilities of the Index strategies in the years to come.
You were looking to pick a fight and prove a point based on your misconceptions and attitude. I apologize for any part I may have played in your misunderstanding. I always do what is best for my clients based on their individual situation and goals. Your name calling and history of wishing death on those who don't agree with your preconceptions and misconceptions speak volumes to your character and rationalization of information. I only wish I were as ethical and knowledgeable as you think you are.
Did you know that if people are in the "index strategies" and the index loses money, they will still get the minimum guarantee? By NOT using doing so, you cheat them out of an opportunity to beat the minimum in rising years. Either you are a fool or you are dishonest. I'm starting to think it's the former.
Last edited by dannysdad : 10-13-2008 at 01:17 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Did you know that if people are in the "index strategies" and the index loses money, they will still get the minimum guarantee? By NOT using doing so, you cheat them out of an opportunity to beat the minimum in rising years.
I think it would be more accurate to call it "minimal" guarantee.
What could have been a good discussion, turned ugly. Assumptions and casual conversations turned into hard and fast facts. Thank you for your common sense.
I understood the point dannydad was making and I agreed with his premise if given the benefit of hindsight. He made a bunch of assumptions and jumped to the conclusion that the clients would never take advantage of the Indexing strategies. The clients may in the future change to one of the Index Strategies, which they have the option to do so annually for the life of the contract, not so with a Fixed only annuity. Either product does what it needs to do to protect the customer and only at the end and with the benefit of hindsight will we know which choice was best.
Patch, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on your integrity. I really think the problem is that you don't really understand how the product works.
Did you know that if people are in the "index strategies" and the index loses money, they will still get the minimum guarantee? By NOT using doing so, you cheat them out of an opportunity to beat the minimum in rising years. Either you are a fool or you are dishonest. I'm starting to think it's the former.
You make a lot of assumptions. I tried to make peace. Go ahead, wish me dead, like everyone else you disagree with. You get the last word, as inaccurate and asinine as it will be.
You make a lot of assumptions. I tried to make peace. Go ahead, wish me dead, like everyone else you disagree with. You get the last word, as inaccurate and asinine as it will be.
Assumptions? I haven't made any assumptions...I've highlighted facts!
I love commissions and I'm in business to make money. I know you can be commission driven and concerned for the customer, at the same time. In your case, I think you step over the line. You are misleading people about what to do with their money. Do you let them know that if they do "indexing", they will have ZERO money in the stock market? Do you explain to them that they will make more money in a fixed annuity? How would you explain yourself in open court? Aren't you afraid that someone like me will meet your client and explain what you have done? You should be.
Guys like you are the reason that the regulators use to justify making these things securities. Nice job.
I work annuities mostly as a sideline, and have sold fdas' and IAs'. Are there any that you prefer for a customer whose primary focus is preservation of principle but somewhat flexible on the penalty phase? I've sold mostly Allianz and AIG.
One further note in regard to what you've posted above, how would regulation of EIAs' prevent agents from slamming customers? Many stock brokers slam customers into poor performing stocks to make money quickly, buying and selling in short time frames, costing their customers huge $$. Many are pure salesman, with no intention of giving sound investment advice and don't even attempt it.
I work annuities mostly as a sideline, and have sold fdas' and IAs'. Are there any that you prefer for a customer whose primary focus is preservation of principle but somewhat flexible on the penalty phase? I've sold mostly Allianz and AIG.
One further note in regard to what you've posted above, how would regulation of EIAs' prevent agents from slamming customers? Many stock brokers slam customers into poor performing stocks to make money quickly, buying and selling in short time frames, costing their customers huge $$. Many are pure salesman, with no intention of giving sound investment advice and don't even attempt it.
It's a crazy world, Bill. It's ok to lose 40% of a client's money in individual stocks, but if I put someone into an "illiquid" (10% free withdrawals/year) VA with solid guarantees, and I have to complete 2 hours worth of paperwork!
Patch36 is getting away with his scam because noone is looking over his shoulder, yet. He's a CFP and CLU and probably understands what he is doing. Perhaps, he will start to run a clean practice if he is accountable for what he does.
Even with regulation, I'm sure that people will still be misled about FIA's. B/D's will now love them because they can make money off of them. In 1995, the SEC determined that they were not securities. Nothing has changed since then and now the ARE securities? The regulators survive on fines and penalties. These products represent a whole new base from which to "churn" these fines/penalties.
It's a crazy world, Bill. It's ok to lose 40% of a client's money in individual stocks, but if I put someone into an "illiquid" (10% free withdrawals/year) VA with solid guarantees, and I have to complete 2 hours worth of paperwork!
Patch36 is getting away with his scam because noone is looking over his shoulder, yet. He's a CFP and CLU and probably understands what he is doing. Perhaps, he will start to run a clean practice if he is accountable for what he does.
Even with regulation, I'm sure that people will still be misled about FIA's. B/D's will now love them because they can make money off of them. In 1995, the SEC determined that they were not securities. Nothing has changed since then and now the ARE securities? The regulators survive on fines and penalties. These products represent a whole new base from which to "churn" these fines/penalties.
Why do you continue to make assumptions about my business practices that are contrived and based on a generalized forum conversation? Find a new poster child for your BS and insults. Your opinion is not based in fact and much of what you have said can be contested as factually inaccurate or exageration and lies. You are on my ignore list, please put me on yours, Troll.
You are laughable in your attempts to paint yourself as an authority and as the only honest person in the house.
Why do you continue to make assumptions about my business practices that are contrived and based on a generalized forum conversation? Find a new poster child for your BS and insults. Your opinion is not based in fact and much of what you have said can be contested as factually inaccurate or exageration and lies. You are on my ignore list, please put me on yours, Troll.
You are laughable in your attempts to paint yourself as an authority and as the only honest person in the house.
Patches, alll I'm doing is commenting on what YOU STATED were your business practices. I assume that there are LOTS of honest people on this board. I just don't include you on that list. You sound like a democrat trying to run from what he said. Also, there's no way you're going to ignore what is being said about you.
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Patches, did you say this?
"I sell FIA's, but for the Bonus component, not the Indexes. 90pct of my clients start in the fixed interest account and stay there year after year. I meet with them every year and explain the Index strategies, and they stay in the fixed side, even with the boring rates. If Indexed products go to the BD's, I don't know that I care as long as the companies keep a Bonus product with a fixed account."
Last edited by dannysdad : 10-14-2008 at 10:08 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
As was said earlier, another thread hijacked and down in flames.
Whatever happened to "I see your point, but I disagree with you because..."
Instead, we see: "You are ignorant. You are breaking the law. You are this, you are that."
All this personal stuff is a big, friggin' waste of forum space.
It is because the owner permits it. Perhaps if enough people complain about personal attacks like "you are dishonest and running a scam" the owner might adopt a different policy and put the "dannysdad" and similar posters of the list on read-only or ban them out-right.
I know of no other professional web-board where so many mean-spirited people contribute without some kind of admin oversight.
I'm not saying the owner should go as far as "Top Gun" but IF you are going to run a web board and IF you are going to make money from it via the subscribers, I think you have the responsibility to "police" it just a little bit.
I'm sure there are plenty of fair-minded people here who would volunteer some time to serve as forum moderators (perhaps for a week at a time) and could help the owner keep this list more civil in tone by both canceling posts or "giving" some folks a "time-out" for 30 days or more.
If I were running a board I would never let someone say (or even suggest) that another member kill themselves. But the owner of this board allows that... and it is HIS board and his privilege.
If you disagree enough, just start your OWN board (which I'm thinking about doing next year... but it will be a salon by invite only of myself or a small membership committee. If I decide to do it, it will be open to the public for reading, but not for comment. I don't expect it to get much traffic and I might do it as a listserv instead. I'd be looking to "host" a round-table of the "best and brightest" in the life/health sector of the industry (I would not qualify for membership!) We'll see if I ever bring it off! Don't hold your breath... but if someone wants to steal the idea... go for it!)
If there was the will, the way would be found to make this venue a bit more civil... as it is on web boards for other business groups. On other boards people will make their point but it is done in a spirit of "Let's agree to disagree," and NOT "You're an ass-$#@, why don't you kill yourself."
It is because the owner permits it. Perhaps if enough people complain about personal attacks like "you are dishonest and running a scam" the owner might adopt a different policy and put the "dannysdad" and similar posters of the list on read-only or ban them out-right.
I know of no other professional web-board where so many mean-spirited people contribute without some kind of admin oversight.
I'm not saying the owner should go as far as "Top Gun" but IF you are going to run a web board and IF you are going to make money from it via the subscribers, I think you have the responsibility to "police" it just a little bit.
I'm sure there are plenty of fair-minded people here who would volunteer some time to serve as forum moderators (perhaps for a week at a time) and could help the owner keep this list more civil in tone by both canceling posts or "giving" some folks a "time-out" for 30 days or more.
If I were running a board I would never let someone say (or even suggest) that another member kill themselves. But the owner of this board allows that... and it is HIS board and his privilege.
If you disagree enough, just start your OWN board (which I'm thinking about doing next year... but it will be a salon by invite only of myself or a small membership committee. If I decide to do it, it will be open to the public for reading, but not for comment. I don't expect it to get much traffic and I might do it as a listserv instead. I'd be looking to "host" a round-table of the "best and brightest" in the life/health sector of the industry (I would not qualify for membership!) We'll see if I ever bring it off! Don't hold your breath... but if someone wants to steal the idea... go for it!)
If there was the will, the way would be found to make this venue a bit more civil... as it is on web boards for other business groups. On other boards people will make their point but it is done in a spirit of "Let's agree to disagree," and NOT "You're an ass-$#@, why don't you kill yourself."
Al
If I was wrong about you breaking the law, why did you remove the offending material from your website?
I dare you to find a post where these quoted words were uttered: "You're an ass-$#@, why don't you kill yourself."
If I was wrong about you breaking the law, why did you remove the offending material from your website?
That was answered earlier. I expect it will be back up by the end of the week. So far no one who has read the year's worth of newsletters (except you) has found anything criminal, but the process is not complete yet.
I dare you to find a post where these quoted words were uttered: "You're an ass-$#@, why don't you kill yourself."
I believe a higher authority will determine what you meant when you suggested suicide. You should speak to a lawyer... or not. I don't care. It is out of my hands.
Re: Equity Index Annuity the best ?
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