SSI Benefits Suspended Due to Unconfirmed Cash Value

PaperHanger

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Have a client just under 1 year, who is apparently on medicaid.

Several weeks ago she said that she tried to request some additional aide, and in the process of that revealed she has a life insurance policy.

The SSI caseworker requested my client provide the policy contract.
My client could not find her policy, but gave the case worker the 'leave behinds' that I had left with her. Case worker said 'no' that won't work.

Client finally calls me late last week and leaves a message that her benefits will be suspended if she can't provide the actual policy by 'tomorrow'. So I worked with her and the ins co to get a copy mailed out to her...but that takes time and in the process benefits were suspended. Then I got into the ins co far enough to find the person who handles these things. She was surprised the case worker was asking for a copy of the policy, usually case workers fax her a form to fill out to get accurate CV info

Since the case worker never answers her phone or returned my message up to this point, I sent via fax the contact person at ins co, and also mentioned we were both surprised the client's benefits were suspended before it was determined the CV exceeded the resource limits.

Today the case worker finally calls me back and begins to explain that life insurance CV is a resource that has to be determined if it exceeds a resource limit to receive benefits. I told her that I was familiar with that aspect, and clarified that the actual concern was that her benefits were actually suspended BEFORE that determination had been made...and also the case worker had not attempted to contact me, or the insurance company herself...and also that the policy document would not indicate current CV but rather a projected CV that can be affected by other factors, and that the ins co was accustomed to receiving a form to fill out, not provide a copy of the policy.
The case worker told me she's been doing this for 8 years, the law requires her to get the policy contract, and after 30 days she is required to suspend benefits if she doesn't get the policy. I told her that sounded like 'guilty until proven innocent' and she assured me that's the way it works.

So she knew there was a policy in force less than 1 year, and suspended SSI benefits 30 days after requesting a copy of the policy, and did not attempt to contact agent or the carrier.

Does this sound right?

p.s. the caseworker said she would contact the ins co and send them a form to fillout and get the benefits back online....but geez what an ordeal

and what is the best way to handle medicaid scenarios, how do you guys handle it....maybe a few folks can give their input, then Newby can come in and clear it all up...and then I know a couple of you will disagree with him and we can all make popcorn!
 
Have a client just under 1 year, who is apparently on medicaid. Several weeks ago she said that she tried to request some additional aide, and in the process of that revealed she has a life insurance policy. The SSI caseworker requested my client provide the policy contract. My client could not find her policy, but gave the case worker the 'leave behinds' that I had left with her. Case worker said 'no' that won't work. Client finally calls me late last week and leaves a message that her benefits will be suspended if she can't provide the actual policy by 'tomorrow'. So I worked with her and the ins co to get a copy mailed out to her...but that takes time and in the process benefits were suspended. Then I got into the ins co far enough to find the person who handles these things. She was surprised the case worker was asking for a copy of the policy, usually case workers fax her a form to fill out to get accurate CV info Since the case worker never answers her phone or returned my message up to this point, I sent via fax the contact person at ins co, and also mentioned we were both surprised the client's benefits were suspended before it was determined the CV exceeded the resource limits. Today the case worker finally calls me back and begins to explain that life insurance CV is a resource that has to be determined if it exceeds a resource limit to receive benefits. I told her that I was familiar with that aspect, and clarified that the actual concern was that her benefits were actually suspended BEFORE that determination had been made...and also the case worker had not attempted to contact me, or the insurance company herself...and also that the policy document would not indicate current CV but rather a projected CV that can be affected by other factors, and that the ins co was accustomed to receiving a form to fill out, not provide a copy of the policy. The case worker told me she's been doing this for 8 years, the law requires her to get the policy contract, and after 30 days she is required to suspend benefits if she doesn't get the policy. I told her that sounded like 'guilty until proven innocent' and she assured me that's the way it works. So she knew there was a policy in force less than 1 year, and suspended SSI benefits 30 days after requesting a copy of the policy, and did not attempt to contact agent or the carrier. Does this sound right? p.s. the caseworker said she would contact the ins co and send them a form to fillout and get the benefits back online....but geez what an ordeal and what is the best way to handle medicaid scenarios, how do you guys handle it....maybe a few folks can give their input, then Newby can come in and clear it all up...and then I know a couple of you will disagree with him and we can all make popcorn!




If the cash value in her policy ever becomes a problem you can have somebody else be the owner of her plan.
 
Have a client just under 1 year, who is apparently on medicaid.

Several weeks ago she said that she tried to request some additional aide, and in the process of that revealed she has a life insurance policy.

The SSI caseworker requested my client provide the policy contract.
My client could not find her policy, but gave the case worker the 'leave behinds' that I had left with her. Case worker said 'no' that won't work.

Client finally calls me late last week and leaves a message that her benefits will be suspended if she can't provide the actual policy by 'tomorrow'. So I worked with her and the ins co to get a copy mailed out to her...but that takes time and in the process benefits were suspended. Then I got into the ins co far enough to find the person who handles these things. She was surprised the case worker was asking for a copy of the policy, usually case workers fax her a form to fill out to get accurate CV info

Since the case worker never answers her phone or returned my message up to this point, I sent via fax the contact person at ins co, and also mentioned we were both surprised the client's benefits were suspended before it was determined the CV exceeded the resource limits.

Today the case worker finally calls me back and begins to explain that life insurance CV is a resource that has to be determined if it exceeds a resource limit to receive benefits. I told her that I was familiar with that aspect, and clarified that the actual concern was that her benefits were actually suspended BEFORE that determination had been made...and also the case worker had not attempted to contact me, or the insurance company herself...and also that the policy document would not indicate current CV but rather a projected CV that can be affected by other factors, and that the ins co was accustomed to receiving a form to fill out, not provide a copy of the policy.
The case worker told me she's been doing this for 8 years, the law requires her to get the policy contract, and after 30 days she is required to suspend benefits if she doesn't get the policy. I told her that sounded like 'guilty until proven innocent' and she assured me that's the way it works.

So she knew there was a policy in force less than 1 year, and suspended SSI benefits 30 days after requesting a copy of the policy, and did not attempt to contact agent or the carrier.

Does this sound right?

p.s. the caseworker said she would contact the ins co and send them a form to fillout and get the benefits back online....but geez what an ordeal

and what is the best way to handle medicaid scenarios, how do you guys handle it....maybe a few folks can give their input, then Newby can come in and clear it all up...and then I know a couple of you will disagree with him and we can all make popcorn!


I deal with this all the time. I got a call yesterday from a client frantic about losing her benefits and they needed that info by Thursday. She had the fax number for the case worker so when I got in last night I wrote up a letter with the info they wanted and also printed off her last annual report and faxed it to the case worker. I also requested this morning for the company to send that info. I had made a not on what I faxed to the case worker that it takes the company a couple weeks to send their info.

That's what has worked every time for me across 3 states. I haven't heard from the case worker today wanting more info nor from the client. I did mail a copy of what I faxed to the client.

Most of these I have to do every year. In those repeat cases I just change the date, put the new cash value on there and fax that. That's never been a problem.
 
If the cash value in her policy ever becomes a problem you can have somebody else be the owner of her plan.

That. There may be a look-back period though. I have that conversation with my clients on policy review calls. I have the same conversation with my younger clients re their parents.

I have never had a social worker push for the full policy. One asked for one Monday, I printed a summary from UH's site and faxed that, it was enough.

Side note: UH has a great client summary and payment history online.
 
Every state is different, but Texas allows no more than $2000 Cash value in life insurance contract. If it has too much CV you can
1. Write a new policy and use cash values to fund the higher value policy.
2. Set up a funeral trust which will allow higher amounts of cash value. In Texas up to $15,000
3. Cash out most of the value and assign the ownership of the policy to one of the kids.
4. Caution when transferring the entire policy, medicaid will have a 5 year look back and can penalize the client for the transfer of the CV.
 
I deal with this all the time. I got a call yesterday from a client frantic about losing her benefits and they needed that info by Thursday. She had the fax number for the case worker so when I got in last night I wrote up a letter with the info they wanted and also printed off her last annual report and faxed it to the case worker. I also requested this morning for the company to send that info. I had made a not on what I faxed to the case worker that it takes the company a couple weeks to send their info.

That's what has worked every time for me across 3 states. I haven't heard from the case worker today wanting more info nor from the client. I did mail a copy of what I faxed to the client.

Most of these I have to do every year. In those repeat cases I just change the date, put the new cash value on there and fax that. That's never been a problem.

That is Indiana medicaid I bet. They are terrible about having to have the info right away. They put the fear of God into the client but they will lose all benefits if they don't get this paper turned in by the end of the week
 
Thanks for input on the options for the client.

The main thing that concerned me was the way the case worker suspended the benefits so quickly, and without attempting to contact me or the ins co herself. especially since the policy was less than 1 year old, and obviously no CV.

btw - this carrier's website doesn't give cash value etc, so there wasn't anything I could print out and provide.

I guess now would be the time for the client to transfer ownership to her son, since it doesn't currently have CV there wouldn't be any medicaid look-back problems there?
 
Thanks for input on the options for the client.

The main thing that concerned me was the way the case worker suspended the benefits so quickly, and without attempting to contact me or the ins co herself. especially since the policy was less than 1 year old, and obviously no CV.

btw - this carrier's website doesn't give cash value etc, so there wasn't anything I could print out and provide.

I guess now would be the time for the client to transfer ownership to her son, since it doesn't currently have CV there wouldn't be any medicaid look-back problems there?

Most FE sites suck in general and really suck at giving the agent policy info.
 
Every state is different, but Texas allows no more than $2000 Cash value in life insurance contract. If it has too much CV you can
1. Write a new policy and use cash values to fund the higher value policy.
2. Set up a funeral trust which will allow higher amounts of cash value. In Texas up to $15,000
3. Cash out most of the value and assign the ownership of the policy to one of the kids.
4. Caution when transferring the entire policy, medicaid will have a 5 year look back and can penalize the client for the transfer of the CV.

That is not how it works on the cash value. The cash value is not treated as a separate entity. The cash value is simply another "countable asset". It's treated just like money in a checking or savings account or the money that be withdrawn from an annuity penalty free. And also just plain ole cash.

You are allowed federally to have $1500 of countable assets that will not affect your Medicaid or extra help eligibility. Some states push that limit to $2000 but the rules are the same. They just can have $500 more in countable assets.

The rest of the stuff you are pretty on point. And it's wise to check the state limit on a trust. In Ky it's $15,000. In Indiana it's $10,000. I had a guy tell me last week that his state was unlimited. Best I remember he was talking about Minnesota?

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That is Indiana medicaid I bet. They are terrible about having to have the info right away. They put the fear of God into the client but they will lose all benefits if they don't get this paper turned in by the end of the week

The one yesterday was in Ky. But I've had to do the same in Indiana many times.
 
75% of the people we see are on Medicaid. It takes a few yrs to build any cash value in these policy's. How many agents are really making someone else the owner from the insured on DI?To be honest i'm sure it crosses few agents minds. How the heck does Medicaid know how much cash value your have?
 
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