Scroll down for a discussion on Final Expense Question within the Life Insurance Forum.
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy
If you think the rates are good for Americo, you should look around a little more... I replaced two Americo Final ...
If you think the rates are good for Americo, you should look around a little more... I replaced two Americo Final Expense policies last week. Their rates are not competitive here in Indiana. However, they do pay high commission's if you can keep it on the books.
I find Americo to be in the game on a lot of ages but high on others. The worst thing about them is they won't take anyone under age 55 on their lower priced product. I keep running into 54 year olds.
I just keep a spreadsheet of all the companies I have rates on. For instance on a 70-year old Male non smoker $10,000 lifetime pay:
Americo:$71.34
Shenandoah $70.58
Citizens: $76.56
Motorists: $66.74
Lafyette: $63.44
Oxford: $64.65
Columbian: 73.54
Chesapeke: $69.25
Forethought: $71.71
AARP New York Life: $84.84
Mutual of Omaha: $75.29
Baltamore Life: $75.60
Thanks for the comparison. I knew Oxford was low but did not know about Motorists or Lafayette. In fact, I've never even heard of them but I never profess to be a FE expert.
I have a contract with Oxford but find that any of the companies that require a point of sale phone call to be a PITA.
Rick
------------------------------------ ILIAA
Training, Community, Support, and Success Independent Life Insurance Agents Assn rick@iliaa.org
Thanks for the comparison. I knew Oxford was low but did not know about Motorists or Lafayette. In fact, I've never even heard of them but I never profess to be a FE expert.
I have a contract with Oxford but find that any of the companies that require a point of sale phone call to be a PITA.
Rick
LaFayette has a real crazy (an bad) commission schedual if you go direct with them. It's basically set up to reward volume. You can get them through a broker and have the normal 105% commissions.
Motorists actually told me last week they are not signing on new agents at this time. However you can get pretty good contracts through brokers with them also.
I had a broker from Indy call me this week offering 120% contracts with Monumental. But I asked my Monumental rep (I already deal direct with them on pre-need) and he said no way in hell unless you have 20 or more agents under you.
I'm still trying to figure out which companies I want to focus on with final expense but so far I write mostly Americo because they re so convenient.
I'm a little biased against Lincoln Heritage just because I had a guy in my town for several years who had his whole family of Gypsys out selling it and they were slimeballs. I can't even hear the name Lincoln Heritage without thinking of these guys. The main one is now deceased.
I know they are kind of overpriced but that is because they do a lot of advertising. They also have kind of a weird funeral online program where people can buy real cheap chinese caskets and stuff but in reality these programs are usually very poorly run and just there to sell the overpriced insurance policy.
Recently I asked my MGA to send me an update on the Americo commissions. As you may know, they just changed all the products, elimiating The Eage Series. Now it's Ultra Protector I, II, & III. On the III, which is Graded Benefit, I could not believe the commision. Previously, my MGA was offering over 100% on everything. Now, the UP III commission is only about 40%. He said they did not want to do it at all, and it was better than nothing. Are you all having the same info ?
Recently I asked my MGA to send me an update on the Americo commissions. As you may know, they just changed all the products, elimiating The Eage Series. Now it's Ultra Protector I, II, & III. On the III, which is Graded Benefit, I could not believe the commision. Previously, my MGA was offering over 100% on everything. Now, the UP III commission is only about 40%. He said they did not want to do it at all, and it was better than nothing. Are you all having the same info ?
If you aren't already appointed with Forethought, send me an IM with your e-mail address and I'll send you their info. They will have their new FE with a 4th tier that will be Guaranteed issue available in about 2-months. They tell me it will pay 110% just like the others. The first tier (healthy people) will have rates that are comparable with the lowest priced companies anywhere (we all know who those are.) Should be a one-stop shop.
Forethought has a LOT of experience with guaranteed issue products. Their pre-need insurance has been guaranteed issue since 1986. Up until 1999 it even had 50% coverage on day one on a guaranteed issue basis. They finally had to drop that back to 6-months of ROP first.
I reccomend you get appointed with them, through me or through someone. They are going to be hard to beat when they roll that out. They CLAIM it will only be available at first to agents who are already appointed with them (I'm not sure I believe that) but there is no cost ot quotas to getting set up with them so why not?
I'm a little biased against Lincoln Heritage just because I had a guy in my town for several years who had his whole family of Gypsys out selling it and they were slimeballs. I can't even hear the name Lincoln Heritage without thinking of these guys. The main one is now deceased.
I know they are kind of overpriced but that is because they do a lot of advertising. They also have kind of a weird funeral online program where people can buy real cheap chinese caskets and stuff but in reality these programs are usually very poorly run and just there to sell the overpriced insurance policy.
I don't find them to be overpriced at all. I sell a lot of LH and they are my number one company to deal with as far a agent services. Case in point on the pricing, the lady that I spoke with you about on the Forethought, a LH policy was going to cost her $31/mo. The Forethought, $29/mo.
I also spoke with a lady last week that you had just sold a $10,000 pre plan for her brother. Now, I know we are comparing apples to oranges here, but, what you sold them a $10,000 preplan for, I could sell them a $10,000 LH whole life policy for $85/mo less, {your's $125/mo, LH-$40/mo}. She was happy with what you sold her and understood the value, {I even put in a good word for you and your product}. But, if we are talking price only, that's a whopping difference. Don't worry, she wasn't shopping. They are already clients and I had written a policy on the brother a couple of years ago when I didn't have LH and it was declined. I've been meaning to go back to them since I got LH and fell asleep at the wheel. You got in there while I wasn't minding to business.
They do not have a "weird online funeral program". They have the Funeral Consumer Guardian Society that they pay the membership into for all policy holders. Anyone can join and pay dues. LH pays the dues for their folks.
It is very well run and adds a great deal of value to the members. They are not "chinese" caskets. They are the very same caskets that every funeral home in the country sells. In fact, they prefer that the members family buy from the funeral home of choice, they just insure that they are not paying too much for it. They will overnight the very same casket to the funeral home, {which, by law, they have to accept and cannot charge a handling fee}, if the funeral home will not cooperate and stop price gouging. They will sell that casket to member's family at wholesale if it comes to that. That doesn't happen very often as the funeral homes in over 95% of the cases reduce the price. The FCGS will allow the funeral home a 100% markup on the casket. Same goes for all the other items.
The only company I find out there in the field beating LH on a consistant basis and by a pretty good % is the mail order Mutual of Omaha. I've only had two of my LH policies replaced on price and both times it was MO.
I represent about 40 life insurance companies. LH is head and shoulders above the rest for agent services and problem solving and timely payment. I can write a LH today, send it overnight to LH where they get it tomorrow and I will have the payment in my bank account on wed. morning. If there is another company out there that will do that, I'm unaware of them.
Well it is silly to compare "Final Expense" to "Pre-Need."
So lets just talk about FE because that is what LE does. I replaced two LE policies last week. And a couple of weeks ago I replaced a LE policy when the great "Senior-Advisor" was hanging out with me. In that instance a lady had 8K face with LE, and she was able to get a 12K face with Royal Neighbors of America and still save .21 cents a month...
I would be hard pressed to come up with another company that I have come across with higher rates then LE... I also can not remember not replacing a LE policy if the applicant still was able to qualify with health.
I am not saying nothing bad about LE or how they treat their agents. But for me I don't care how fast a company pays if the business does not stay on the books...
Most companies pay commissions daily...
Last edited by HoosierDaddy : 07-28-2008 at 02:34 PM.
The only company I find out there in the field beating LH on a consistant basis and by a pretty good % is the mail order Mutual of Omaha. I've only had two of my LH policies replaced on price and both times it was MO.
The mail order M of O has a two year wait? I don't know how much FE you do. But I can see the FE agents all over the country reading this board and picking their families up and moving to your area... The Gold Rush is on...
The mail order M of O has a two year wait? I don't know how much FE you do. But I can see the FE agents all over the country reading this board and picking their families up and moving to your area... The Gold Rush is on...
I don't know whether someone would consider the final expense I do to be a huge amount or insignificant. I average about $1500 in annual premium a week. For the year and a half that I've had LH, I had a low month of $4000 ap and a high of $8500.
I'm in western Ky, so, come on down. I'm getting contracted with some other FE companies. RN is one I'm looking at.
Since I posted here earlier today, I have had a conversation with another LH agent who tells me that Penn Life is kicking his ass. I can only speak to my experience and I haven't been getting beat on price with other companies. I have Shenandoah's Golden Promise, but, I've never written one. LH will cover folks that Golden Promise won't.
Well it is silly to compare "Final Expense" to "Pre-Need."
So lets just talk about FE because that is what LE does. I replaced two LE policies last week. And a couple of weeks ago I replaced a LE policy when the great "Senior-Advisor" was hanging our with me. In that instance a lady had 8K face with LE, and she was able to get a 12K face with Royal Neighbors of America and still save .21 cents a month...
I would be hard pressed to come up with another company that I have come across with higher rates then LE... I also can not remember not replacing a LE policy if the applicant still was able to qualify with health.
I am not saying nothing bad about LE or how they treat their agents. But for me I don't care how fast a company pays if the business does not stay on the books...
Most companies pay commissions daily...
I have other companies that pay daily, too. But, they don't pay upon receipt of the app. They pay on issue. LH pays the agent when they receive the app.
"If the applicant still was able to qualify with health" is quite accurate. If the applicant is in great health, I usually don't put them with LH. I look for the best rate that a person can qualify for because i agree with you that the business has to stay on the books. My 13 month persistancy with LH is 88%. A little higher with my Shenandoah term and higher still with OM.
You guys may be right, there may be many companies that offer better value for the client than LH. If you are right, I will try to get appointed with those companies.
Yes, Mr. Tubbs did replace a LH policy when I was riding along with him. THey are pretty high priced around here.
It also sounds like RNA and LH pay in about the same amount of time, but you do not have to overniight to RNA and they ISSUE it within 24hours(usually). I would much rather be paid on issue than reciept.
I will be the first one to admit that I don’t always place FE clients with the lowest premium. there are other benefits that I do take into account when recommending a FE product. Not to mention this is how I make my living. As an agent you have to also take into account what your competition is like. Here in Indiana this place is flooded with agents peddling senior products… (For example look at the number of Indiana agents on this board) So I am always slamming home the benefits and competitive premium to my folks. Here where I am it seems when I am leaving an appointment out the back door a new agent is walking in the front door. So I try and do a good job solidifying my business at the time of sale. If your not loosing your LE business and you like working stay with LE I would not change a thing.
As far as commissions, if I fax an application to RNA today with the initial draft not until Aug 27th I will have money in my bank the day after it is issued, and they speed issue within 48 hours of receiving the faxed app. Not as good as LE pay upon receiving the app, but pretty good.
Last edited by HoosierDaddy : 07-28-2008 at 02:36 PM.
Yes, Mr. Tubbs did replace a LH policy when I was riding along with him. THey are pretty high priced around here.
It also sounds like RNA and LH pay in about the same amount of time, but you do not have to overniight to RNA and they ISSUE it within 24hours(usually). I would much rather be paid on issue than reciept.
You don't have to overnight to LH, it's just available if you want your money faster. I don't usually use overnight. I mail all my work for the week on Fri. And, I mail it regular mail in the postage paid envelopes that LH provides me. Normally, it gets to them on Mon. and I'm paid on Tues. I just got an email about my deposit for tomorrow.
I work the southern In. quite a bit as Evansville is the closest good sized town to me. I do more MA busines there, not so much FE because, as you say, it's satuated with agents. The ones I've had replaced were in the Evansville area.
I'm not trying to be a cheerleader for LH even though it looks that way. If a ton of my business was being replaced because of cost, I will certainly look elsewhere. I made an inquiry to RN just because of reading this board.
I got contracted with another company because of reading this board. LH made some huge changes this year with their preffered whole life for healthier clients.. If you are seeing LH clients that have older policies, they lower priced stuff was probably not available when they were written.
I was doing one last week and had quoted the lady the preffered rate based on our phone conversation. When I was doing the app., she was taking some meds that she had not disclosed. She no longer qualified for the better rate, but she could still get the final expense with immediate coverage. It was $10/mo higher. She gladly paid it as she wanted the coverage. Now, had I just put on that one in the first place without a medical reason, somebody would most certainly come along and replace it.
Since LH made those changes, I'm not running into a price problem. Maybe I need to look around some more and I will now that we have had this conversation.
The mail order M of O has a two year wait? I don't know how much FE you do. But I can see the FE agents all over the country reading this board and picking their families up and moving to your area... The Gold Rush is on...
Well, let's just compare pricing. I posted this in the LH thread, but, I'll do the same here.
Today, I wrote two LH $10,000 whole life policies. One was on a 40 year old male non smoker. The other was on a 50 year old female smoker.
The male's was $20/mo. The female's $29.40/mo.
How much did they overpay compared to the other companies out there. No real health issues with either, so, they would most be approved with anyone. I know they will be with LH.
If you, or anyone can beat those rates, how much can you beat them by and with what company?
UHL has 40yr male $10k, @$17.94 per month, $25k which is what I would have sold him would be $37.87. THat might not be my cheapest either, just the 1st one I looked at.
Re: Final Expense Question
Linear Mode
