Best Agents To Give Advice

[Rearden]

Allow me to take the side of the Final Expense agents.

First of all, you have to understand the perspective of the final expense agent.

The successful final expense agents that contribute to this forum are singularly-focused, do not deviate from their tried-and-tested marketing and business model, and most have been screwed in one way or another by IMOs, lead vendors, and marketers who spew a bunch of inapplicable garbage to the masses and pass it off as appropriate for the Final Expense market.

When you consider the above, you will have a better time understanding why a lot of Final Expense agents come off antagonistic, aggressive. They eschew diffusion, and openly question advice given by non-Final Expense producers, because many at one time fell for the same type of crap earlier in their career.

The truth is, our culture is rank with posers who present themselves as experts, consultants, etc., and hardly have the street-cred to understand what it's like taking the hits and succeeding massively by the sweat of their own brow.

Building on the psyche of final expense agents, you must understand that most of those who succeed are one-dimensional in thinking, which is a reflection of their normal behavior pattern.

This is not an insult, either; I am intellectually curious, but it took me several years of restraining the engineering/tinkering side of my personality, and to simply go all-in and what marketing/selling approach has the greatest odds of delivering success for 90% of agents leading with final expense products.

In my limited experience and reading of the forum, it appears that non-FE life insurance agents are more intellectually-curious about their product selection and options to offer their clients, as they probably need to be, at least by my perception.

The best final expense agents are "dumb" about their approach to selling final expense, simply following the same system that 90% of the top 10% of final expense agents do to succeed, and have their intellectual interests and curiosity elsewhere in non-FE related activities.

Lastly, I will say this; the Final Expense forum is the fastest-growing sub-forum and has the highest post count compared to all other sub-forums.

Plus, this is an Insurance Agent forum, where agents share opinions of the business; thank goodness this place isn't like LinkedIn, where every other update I get is some stupid motivational poster (ugh).

 

[rousemark]

DHK, the real agents of this forum know that you are exactly right.

I take exception with the implication that FE agents aren't real agents. There are "real agents" in every specialty of the insurance business. Agents do not have to sell solutions to complicated estate or business plans or a particular product such annuities, ULs, Par WL, Term, etc. to be a real agent.

DHK, Sman, Scagent...You are judging a subset of the industry based on your perception of the few and I can assure you that your opinion is skewed. Have known many very professional FE agetns that are truly concerned with not only their clients but people in general; with complying with regulations, etc. Also, there are just as many of those in the areas you seem to think more "professional" that re guilty of all the things you are piling on the FE agents. I have known many big producers in the high end markets that care only about how much money they put in their pocket. They cut regulatory corners, outright lie and could care less about others.. some even get caught and are arrested and put in jail at the time they are planing on attending their next Top of the Table meeting.

 

[WinoBlues]

I didnt know Rick was an FE agent?!

He is barely an agent.

 

[Rearden]

Agreed. You and I do not see eye to eye about everything. But we have always remained civil and professional. We have never called each others advice "crap" or "bs". I could say the same for many others around here.


I never realized how many consumers actually read this site until I had website links in my signature. And some of the comments I received from them about their perception of the forum overall... & how that has affected their perception of the insurance industry overall, pretty much made me sick. The term "deadbeats" was used by more than one consumer to describe how they felt about most of the agents on the forum. A few asked me why I would want to associate myself with a website that makes agents look so bad...

I am not currently running my annuity site, but I took it off of my signature even before I suspended the hosting for it. I just couldnt publicly associate myself with the forum anymore. People around here still know who I am (the ones I choose to), & you could dig through 4k posts and find a few that could possibly identify me. But I no longer have a link to my info or websites after every post. Like a long time Top of the Table agent said to me recently; "why would I associate myself with something that makes the life insurance industry look so bad?"

This is exactly the reason WHY you should link your services to this Forum!

If most of your clients think agents look like "deadbeats" based off of their perception of the forum, branding yourself as the "diamond in the rough" is an excellent selling point!

You (and anybody else) on this forum do not have to be defined within the mass of "deadbeats"; make a decision to define yourself as "definitely NOT the deadbeat" in the sea of deadbeats!

Seems like a great positioning opportunity to me.

 

[DHK]

Rearden,

I completely agree with that assessment. I can understand that. FE sales, as far as I've read in the FE forum, is a disciplined approach to being great at peddling a single product/need. (And I use peddling just to say that you don't overthink the recommendation. You use what you've got. Either they want it or not. And you're not necessarily going to be recommending anything more advanced than a policy that will pay out a death benefit.)

In the thread in question, the poster asked a question because he perceived that his own size and stature was a hinderance to his success.

At least I disclosed that I didn't sell FE, or did I think that other agents would agree that my idea would work for FE sales.

To me, if I disclose that, it does show that:
1) I know that you are in a unique marketplace.
2) It's just an idea that may or may not work for you.


It's not like I visit the FE forum and say "This is how you should do your job". That would be presumptuous and stupid.

But for THAT poster, he needed a different idea that he perceived was a problem for him. So I gave him an idea and qualified it by saying that it may not work for FE sales.

 

[smokin goose]

It's not about advice being considered crap. It's about the advice being unproven over an extended period of time.

If I want advice of how to work my book to sell more policies to family members, I would ask Wino. And I have done that.

If I want to be a better FE salesperson, I'm not asking Wino. He's sold SIWL, but he's not an FE agent.

At the same time, I would not ask JD how to be a fulltime med supp salesman. Has he sold med supps? Yes. Does he have proven methods to be a successful full time phone med supp agent? No.

Dhk, you say it's 95% about people. You're right, but you're not seeing the same people that I see. The FE market is the people, not the product.

Have you not seen mediocre college basketball players flourish in the NBA and vice versa? It's all basketball, but the NBA is a different game.

 

[John Galt]

Let's go to the video-tape, shall we?

http://www.insurance-forums.net/for...m/door-knocking-delima-t73579.html#post982357

Post #42 - I give an idea and fully disclose that it may not work for FE sales, but gave it anyway.

Post #43 - "How does this work out for you selling FE?"

Post #48 - I again disclose that I don't sell FE.

Post #50 - Accused of giving advice in an area that I have "no experience with".

Post #52 - "What's your average AP? What products have you sold door-knocking?"

Anyway... look, if you're not open to new ideas, you don't have to accept anything that anyone else says.

Here's the thing: in California, and I would also presume New York and Florida, more people are being bombarded with all kinds of solicitations all the time.

Your first job is to get someone to LISTEN to you... so my method is to get them to relax and feel comfortable in listening to you. In fact, the post above mine was looking for an idea to help people be more comfortable with him coming to the door... so my method fit his problem and question. Since he gave my post a "thumbs up" and didn't respond further in the thread, I can presume he was happy with it.

However, everyone thinks they're an expert too... so they jump down my throat asking how well does it work. If I told you that I generated ,000... you'll say "prove it". I don't want to and I don't have to.


Also, as I read some of the other threads in the FE forum - as they like to berate anyone that skips an appointment, I have to assume that you guys HATE dealing with people. You send nasty letters and plot other things. Yeah, it may feel good to blow off some steam... but I wouldn't actually SEND those letters. One or more of you actually do.

I'm sure you just don't like the time-wasters. I don't blame you, but I wouldn't actually spread that message around. Everything you write is part of your "brand". My brand is that I'm a nice guy, who is serious about helping others. By helping others, it helps me help myself to keep me sharp. I enjoy answering questions - usually.

The threads in the FE forum are geared towards how you sell to people on government assistance and welfare. You are quick to dismiss people because your time is valuable. I can understand that. I also understand that you have CHOSEN to work with these people. No one has forced anyone to say "You have to sell FE to people on the government dole."

That is not my market... but sales is sales. Sales is understanding people. Even John Savage said "Knowledge of your product never was and never will be worth more than 5% of your sale. Knowledge of people - 95%. And if you ain't got that straight, you've got nothing straight."

I'll help with an idea or two where I can. Why? Because this business is tough and people need a little help. The business of being an insurance agent - ANY AGENT - is to create and form relationships. If I can help you to do that, great. If you don't like it... fine. If you think you can't be a nice guy and succeed... fine. I choose not to believe that.

If its not your market dont post in the freaking fe forum. You dont see me posting in the p&c forum or the health insurance forum even though i have my health license. Its just us full fledged fe guys get a LOT of experience sniffing out bs quickly, we have to, so when we smell bs from a post we call it out quickly.

 

[WinoBlues]

Allow me to take the side of the Final Expense agents.

First of all, you have to understand the perspective of the final expense agent.

The successful final expense agents that contribute to this forum are singularly-focused, do not deviate from their tried-and-tested marketing and business model, and most have been screwed in one way or another by IMOs, lead vendors, and marketers who spew a bunch of inapplicable garbage to the masses and pass it off as appropriate for the Final Expense market.

When you consider the above, you will have a better time understanding why a lot of Final Expense agents come off antagonistic, aggressive. They eschew diffusion, and openly question advice given by non-Final Expense producers, because many at one time fell for the same type of crap earlier in their career.

The truth is, our culture is rank with posers who present themselves as experts, consultants, etc., and hardly have the street-cred to understand what it's like taking the hits and succeeding massively by the sweat of their own brow.

Building on the psyche of final expense agents, you must understand that most of those who succeed are one-dimensional in thinking, which is a reflection of their normal behavior pattern.

This is not an insult, either; I am intellectually curious, but it took me several years of restraining the engineering/tinkering side of my personality, and to simply go all-in and what marketing/selling approach has the greatest odds of delivering success for 90% of agents leading with final expense products.

In my limited experience and reading of the forum, it appears that non-FE life insurance agents are more intellectually-curious about their product selection and options to offer their clients, as they probably need to be, at least by my perception.

The best final expense agents are "dumb" about their approach to selling final expense, simply following the same system that 90% of the top 10% of final expense agents do to succeed, and have their intellectual interests and curiosity elsewhere in non-FE related activities.

Lastly, I will say this; the Final Expense forum is the fastest-growing sub-forum and has the highest post count compared to all other sub-forums.

Plus, this is an Insurance Agent forum, where agents share opinions of the business; thank goodness this place isn't like LinkedIn, where every other update I get is some stupid motivational poster (ugh).

You nail it on the options, at least in my case. One of my biggest business faults is over thinking the options.

U should also mention that I learn a ton from some of the FE only guys. I also talk and chat with some regularly. I also get a lot of PMs and emails from the forum. I do not think I have ever refused to help anyone.

 

[scagnt83]

I take exception with the implication that FE agents aren't real agents. There are "real agents" in every specialty of the insurance business. Agents do not have to sell solutions to complicated estate or business plans or a particular product such annuities, ULs, Par WL, Term, etc. to be a real agent.

You are assuming I am talking about just FE agents there. Like I said in another post, I have a lot of respect for some of the FE guys around here.

A "real" agent cares about the industry, their clients, their peers, & acts professional. That includes some FE agents, & excludes others.

 

[DHK]

That's a fair assessment too!

Again, I was giving my idea to someone who felt he needed something different for him. I didn't say that everyone should do things in a particular way. It was just for him.

Here was his post:

What about door knocking for the agent who resembles a debt collector for the Gambino Family.? With some of us, if an elderly prospect spies us through the peephole, she's gonna grab the cat, leap behind the sofa (bad hip and all) and cry out for someone to call the police.

He felt his size was an issue. Maybe his voice too? If it's an issue in his own mind, it's an issue - whether it's true or not in reality.

So I simply offered this:

Everyone in the FE forum will probably tell you that this idea will NOT work for FE sales... but this is what I say:

"Hi! I'm DHK... and I promise I'm not trying to sell you anything right now or asking for any money. (pause) May I take 30 seconds to tell you why I stopped by and you can decide if it makes sense to keep talking after that?"

If you're not asking for money or trying to sell at the door, this can work and people's natural curiosity will kick in to wonder "what do you want then?" For me, I'm always asking to set an appointment for the future... not try to sell at the door.

Granted, I know that nearly all FE agents are trying to get in the door right then, present, and leave with a signed application. Could it be adapted to him and his process? Sure. But that's up to him on how to adapt it.

It's true that different agents play "different games" (using your basketball analogy). But instead of playing forward, maybe the agent needs to be a point guard and play his game that way? (I don't know basketball, so I don't know if that analogy would even make sports sense, but there we are.)