I was reading the various posts as a result of a comment someone else made at a GTBK meeting I was attending regarding this forum thread; in retrospect, it is laughable that one can depend on advice in a forum such as this. For one thing, the only folks who have a stake are those who are going to be negative; for the most part those that have a positive experience are both too busy to bother and often don't care (they are fine having fewer other agents using a similar system). I had the opportunity to discuss a couple of the negative posts in this forum with a GBTK partner and his side of the story (you don't get BOTH sides in these forums either, now do you?) made the negative posts even that much more humorous. The bottom line in our business is that success is up to you, you can only choose what and whose support system works best for your own business. the good thing about our business is that there are AMPLE opportunities to be succesful. But, using the good old 80/20 rule, only about 20% are going to do what it takes to succeed. Or, as my first general agent told me years ago "The difference between successful agents and unsuccessful agents is the successful ones are willing to do the things that the unsuccessful agents are not willing to do." Blaming the system or anyone else is typical -- I think -- of an unsuccessful agent
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moonlightandmargaritas wrote:
Did you read the other posts in the thread?
It seems like folks have posted about their experiences extensively...
I Replied to his idiocy:
I obviously have read them...
Most of what everyone wrote on this thread was a question (like mine...)
I think YOU should reread this post (are you able?).
By NO means was ANYTHING answered here "extensively".
You may want to lay OFF those margaritas.
That is such a cute name...
moonlightandmargaritas
4 people said stay away - they did not ask questions. I do not think the Moonlight Gator guy's response was out of line. I think your snarky response to him was.
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I don't know a thing about the subject being discussed but I had to add that your post is such an obvious company shill that you should be embarressed that you even believed you could fool anyone.
No one is ever fooled by drivel like that. Especially when you are making your first post.
Both sides of many topics are hotly debated on this forum. Apparently this topic has everyone in agreement that it's a crock. At least the ones's who have tried it out.
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Here is a little more background on the gurus and systems we see in Senior Market Advisor and other mags. I am not bashing any of them - you draw your own conclusions.
Dennis is a Dan Kennedy disciple. Kennedy is a marketer/copywriter. He is pretty good but not in the league of the great copywriters. Dennis mailing pieces have a picture of him with Kennedy. Kennedy's deal is he charges about $10,000 for a marketing piece plus a piece of the business.
Jeff Paul may be a another Dan Kennedy disciple. Paul's disciples are Brian Kay and Tim Austin, Dean Cipriano and Pat Stubbe. I would give them all the benefit of the doubt until I saw Jeff Paul's Internet Millions web site. You can search for it on the web. You will get the picture. Pat Strubbe is in one of the videos. Almost every guru or system ad you will see in the advisor mags are one of these guys.
The others systems include Russ Jones, Mark Matson (more an FMO), Mike Reese who is now offered only to Advisors Excel and maybe one or two other systems. Russ, Mark and Mike probably do their own copywriting and they all seem to be decent guys.
Dennis is a Dan Kennedy disciple. Kennedy is a marketer/copywriter. He is pretty good but not in the league of the great copywriters. Dennis mailing pieces have a picture of him with Kennedy. Kennedy's deal is he charges about $10,000 for a marketing piece plus a piece of the business.
Jeff Paul may be a another Dan Kennedy disciple. Paul's disciples are Brian Kay and Tim Austin, Dean Cipriano and Pat Stubbe. I would give them all the benefit of the doubt until I saw Jeff Paul's Internet Millions web site. You can search for it on the web. You will get the picture. Pat Strubbe is in one of the videos. Almost every guru or system ad you will see in the advisor mags are one of these guys.
The others systems include Russ Jones, Mark Matson (more an FMO), Mike Reese who is now offered only to Advisors Excel and maybe one or two other systems. Russ, Mark and Mike probably do their own copywriting and they all seem to be decent guys.
alltoomuchfun
New Member
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I met Mike Reese/Pat S. at an event a few years back that Dennis hosted. They were in personal production at that time. I didnt do anything at that time.
I have just used Dennis program and have 3 cases...1 closed 2 more closing smallest is 28k in comp.
Take your time and check them out....like with anyone. Come to your own conclusions...its not for everyone. I look at them all, pay attention to them all. lots of smart people out there..but the marketing thought process and strategies that Dennis provides are working for me.
I have just used Dennis program and have 3 cases...1 closed 2 more closing smallest is 28k in comp.
Take your time and check them out....like with anyone. Come to your own conclusions...its not for everyone. I look at them all, pay attention to them all. lots of smart people out there..but the marketing thought process and strategies that Dennis provides are working for me.
I've just been watching this post thread knowing all parties mentioned above by the last poster. Funny, in retrospect that there haven't been any 'positive posts' until recently about GTBK. Could it happen to be that I just received a mailer today recruiting me and other agents to an upcoming 'roadshow' and that in doing these 50 roadshows they are having people bring up these posts and asking questions about it? Let's face it, with google, you can find anything and its obvious this is happening and maybe having an impact....don't know but anyone with any sense can figure it out.
By the way, the last post mentioned Mike R/Pat S........Question: If GTBK is so great as mentioned by the poster/GTBK worker.....Why are these guys not working with GTBK? Mike R is with Advisor Excel.....If it was the case I'd have them standing right next to me---wouldn't you? Could it be that they are like a lot of us who picked up a few things from GTBK (I picked up the appt. process) but coulnd't make it fit with them when they wanted me to run all securities business through them to use their SMART IRA Program and they were Charging 2.5% to manage with poor returns......or whatever program GTBK was selling at the time (every few months its somehting new).
I knew Mike R at an organization called Piece of Pie/Mike Kaselnak. I was actually in their top 10 production 2 years in a row and Mike R. was a really nice guy but didn't do much with POP and moved on. He's gone on to do very well and actually uses a lot of the techniques we learned at POP with regards to meetings, questions, strategies and etc. The question is this: What do all 4 of the above mentioned (Dennis T, Mike R, Pat s, Mike Kaselnak) have in common? They all sell stuff to agents or they RECRUIT. Doesn't take a rocket scientist.....Some produce, some recruit, some sell stuff to agents who are looking for success in the business.
Being in the business for so long, many guys just produce, some stink, some are good. Others get burned out tryingto get their next 'kill/commission' and they turn to selling stuff to agents and doing joint case work. At a large firm I was with, 100% of my business was doing Joint Work with agents because I had a specialty and knew who to use advanced concepts with retiree's and business owners. I did the joint work and had a 60/40 split or so on each case. I now had other guys out bird dogging cases for me and drumming up business. I was spending nothing for this and had 12 guys spending their money kicking up the dust to bring me business to write with them...(and when they quit I kept the business--dirty secret in this industry). My experience with GTBK and others tells me they do the same. As one guy said on the post, they started out selling stuff to help agents but now they are wanting people to pay up front for a 'service' and then use their mailhouse to mail and split commissions on life cases (and hopefully get you do to do some securities business with them since they own a Broker Dealer).
So, they get $5k to get a person to sign up for a program that they designed to sell life insurance (most would recruit and have this as a recruiting bait---they learned from Dan Kennedy to sell this and get paid since most won't do anything)....(a friend of mine went to their Definitive Program and they wanted 30k for the program/few days after the conference they sent an offer for $20,000ish...couple of weeks later.......$10,000 ish.......(kennedy taught them you make numerous offer and entice them). Next they get you to pay $3k or so to use their mailhouse since they have such as great mail house or whatever they tell you........basically you overpay by about 100%.........finally, they get a % of the case. I know a few years back on their 'arbitrage cases' they wanted almost 40% plus you had to use 'their' life contracts (I had much higher life contracts with carriers but had to run it through them if we did this...) So, they backed everything up in the past by offerring a 100% guarantee but it seems they are not doing this anymore or as they did with me 3 years ago, tried to do everything not to give it to me (sort of like a timeshare and they transfer you from person to person)........
To sum it up, they are a lot like what John Bogle of Vanguard said about Mutual Funds......The investor (buyer of GTBK materials) puts up 100% of the money....takes 100% of the risk....and gets 50% of the return............the mutual fund (GTBK) puts up none of the money, takes none of the risk and makes 50% of the money...............Sweet.
Just my 2 cents whatching all of this....I'm sure the GTBK boys will have a super response.
By the way, the last post mentioned Mike R/Pat S........Question: If GTBK is so great as mentioned by the poster/GTBK worker.....Why are these guys not working with GTBK? Mike R is with Advisor Excel.....If it was the case I'd have them standing right next to me---wouldn't you? Could it be that they are like a lot of us who picked up a few things from GTBK (I picked up the appt. process) but coulnd't make it fit with them when they wanted me to run all securities business through them to use their SMART IRA Program and they were Charging 2.5% to manage with poor returns......or whatever program GTBK was selling at the time (every few months its somehting new).
I knew Mike R at an organization called Piece of Pie/Mike Kaselnak. I was actually in their top 10 production 2 years in a row and Mike R. was a really nice guy but didn't do much with POP and moved on. He's gone on to do very well and actually uses a lot of the techniques we learned at POP with regards to meetings, questions, strategies and etc. The question is this: What do all 4 of the above mentioned (Dennis T, Mike R, Pat s, Mike Kaselnak) have in common? They all sell stuff to agents or they RECRUIT. Doesn't take a rocket scientist.....Some produce, some recruit, some sell stuff to agents who are looking for success in the business.
Being in the business for so long, many guys just produce, some stink, some are good. Others get burned out tryingto get their next 'kill/commission' and they turn to selling stuff to agents and doing joint case work. At a large firm I was with, 100% of my business was doing Joint Work with agents because I had a specialty and knew who to use advanced concepts with retiree's and business owners. I did the joint work and had a 60/40 split or so on each case. I now had other guys out bird dogging cases for me and drumming up business. I was spending nothing for this and had 12 guys spending their money kicking up the dust to bring me business to write with them...(and when they quit I kept the business--dirty secret in this industry). My experience with GTBK and others tells me they do the same. As one guy said on the post, they started out selling stuff to help agents but now they are wanting people to pay up front for a 'service' and then use their mailhouse to mail and split commissions on life cases (and hopefully get you do to do some securities business with them since they own a Broker Dealer).
So, they get $5k to get a person to sign up for a program that they designed to sell life insurance (most would recruit and have this as a recruiting bait---they learned from Dan Kennedy to sell this and get paid since most won't do anything)....(a friend of mine went to their Definitive Program and they wanted 30k for the program/few days after the conference they sent an offer for $20,000ish...couple of weeks later.......$10,000 ish.......(kennedy taught them you make numerous offer and entice them). Next they get you to pay $3k or so to use their mailhouse since they have such as great mail house or whatever they tell you........basically you overpay by about 100%.........finally, they get a % of the case. I know a few years back on their 'arbitrage cases' they wanted almost 40% plus you had to use 'their' life contracts (I had much higher life contracts with carriers but had to run it through them if we did this...) So, they backed everything up in the past by offerring a 100% guarantee but it seems they are not doing this anymore or as they did with me 3 years ago, tried to do everything not to give it to me (sort of like a timeshare and they transfer you from person to person)........
To sum it up, they are a lot like what John Bogle of Vanguard said about Mutual Funds......The investor (buyer of GTBK materials) puts up 100% of the money....takes 100% of the risk....and gets 50% of the return............the mutual fund (GTBK) puts up none of the money, takes none of the risk and makes 50% of the money...............Sweet.
Just my 2 cents whatching all of this....I'm sure the GTBK boys will have a super response.
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Blinked I'd be curious to hear more about the "Charitable IRA" "concept". I attended a seminar run by Chris Ostrowski yesterday. Pretty basic. "Get a medically underwritten SPIA and fund a new LI policy" type stuff. The Charitable IRA thing was teased mercilessly.
At the end, the presenter will NOT provide you w/ contact info. I went so far as to try to discuss a case (for perspective, the policies involved were a $3MM individual and $10MM joint) to see if they could come up w/ any ideas any brighter than mine. Bupkis. Get referred from person to person. "Can't work w/ you unless you're a member". I asked if I could talk to the guy (Chris) I just [apparently] wasted 3 hours with, and was told - "He only talks to members".
You are all, of course, free to interpret my experience as you will.
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Is this thread moderated? I put up (for me, since my typing skills rot) a rather lengthy post yesterday - but it hasn't appeared. Did I mess up, somehow? (It was my very first post, so messing up is a distinct possibility)
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dianne - I tried to email you, but the linky didn't work. i presume by expensive lesson they didn't honor their highly touted "money-back" guarantee? I'd be interested in hearing more details.
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For the record - I had a very unpleasant experience subsequent to a recruiting seminar run by Chris O[something]. They essentially LIE about their contact info, try to slip you into their sales funnel, won't talk to you "unless you're a member". Demonstrated no interest in working on a $13MM case from a Plan Design perspective unless they were paid some $2500 up-front. Walks and quacks like the proverbial scam...
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dianne - I tried to email you, but the linky didn't work. i presume by expensive lesson they didn't honor their highly touted "money-back" guarantee? I'd be interested in hearing more details.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
For the record - I had a very unpleasant experience subsequent to a recruiting seminar run by Chris O[something]. They essentially LIE about their contact info, try to slip you into their sales funnel, won't talk to you "unless you're a member". Demonstrated no interest in working on a $13MM case from a Plan Design perspective unless they were paid some $2500 up-front. Walks and quacks like the proverbial scam...
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Doug Delaney
New Member
"....I'd be curious to hear more about the "Charitable IRA" "concept". I attended a seminar run by Chris Ostrowski yesterday. Pretty basic. "Get a medically underwritten SPIA and fund a new LI policy" type stuff. The Charitable IRA thing was teased mercilessly. "
I am the tax attorney that developed the "Charitable IRA", commonly referred to as the CHIRA TM concept approved in PLR 200741016 after several years in review with the IRS. In May of 2008, I received correspondence from the NY DOI (search 200741016, New York, Insurable Interest). A patent application was filed for this in 2005 and this can be found at the USPTO website searching for Delaney as inventor. I welcome anyone to search for Tubbergen or GTBK as inventor or "Immediate LegacyTM" or Qilin or Imperial Wealth Management as it simply is not in existence. It goes without saying that all intellectual rights will be actively pursued. The NY DOI correspondence indicates that life/SPIA arbitrages will fail for lack of insurable interest. This arbitrage mechanism simply will not work. Insurance companies are wise to this type of gaming. CHIRA USA/CHIRA Financial Services LLC is the real deal offering agents a substantial library and good insurance product offered by insurers who have vetted the product for years. Life/SPIA arbitrage will almost certainly result in litigation. CHIRA USA believes in forthright communications with the industry, agents, charities and donors. Our CHIRA TM Best Practices Manual is an industry leader and a great resource for agents.
While this plan is not for everyone, it can generate great rewards for needy charities, local economies and well intending donors. The CHIRA USA Financial Services site provides good introductory information and licenses for a fraction of the cost with a substantial library on actually how to implement a proper CHIRA TM plan. We believe in the manual labor and homework necessary to do the plan right.
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So your Charitable IRA works and others may not? What is the average case? I may be working with some deserving charities soon to help them raise money.
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