Looking for Advice: Liberty Mutual Vs. Farmers Agent

[vistavette]

Todd, I too was a FIG agent for years and went indy last year. I also had new clients over the years that went exactly the way yours did, congrats and he should be a client for years. The problem and why ultimately I left (2900 PIF) was because there just far and few inbetween that we were so uncompetitive. Our agency as it grew became a service agency and although increasing marketing budget every year, as a business it just did not make sense for me anyway to not have more than one choice.

Exactly. Also; it was our findings that the "Farmers brand: did almost nothing for us - its OUR marketing program that built us. With no choices you're entire life is at ther mercy of Farmers. Once they decide they're done growing for a period of time you just die on the vine with nothing to run to.

 

[todd02]

Exactly. Also; it was our findings that the "Farmers brand: did almost nothing for us - its OUR marketing program that built us. With no choices you're entire life is at ther mercy of Farmers. Once they decide they're done growing for a period of time you just die on the vine with nothing to run to.

To bad you left a few years ago. The new contract allows you to sell your book. Ouch! Books are going for 1.5-2 times service commission.

 

[vistavette]

To bad you left a few years ago. The new contract allows you to sell your book. Ouch! Books are going for 1.5-2 times service commission.

No "ouch" here; not in the least. I didn't leave a few years ago -I just left with complete knowledge of the new contract and to the best of my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) there is no new contract yet. Its coming but from what I know it has yet to be released. On how the sale of a book would go; not stated yet. The new contract is very restrictive; one of the sticking points being outside business. I have a large health book and a lot of outside commercial - the new contract seeks to disallow this business. Farmers is currently attempting to sell policies to agencies 150 at a time - in our area they're having issues finding people to take them and have to give them away. Also there are restrictions on who can purchase/obtain policies. You have to be growing. The overall control that Farmers is attempting to grab from its agents is smothering at the very least. Trust me; there is no "ouch" at all.

Do you have an example of any books that have been sold? if so; what was the final rate (1x, 1.5, 2x??). I don't believe that anyone with a book of anyreasonable size is going to be capable of selling their book for anywhere near1.5-2x and I wasn’t aware of anyone that has been allowed to sell yet.

Additionally; Farmers is gearing up to rebrand everything as "Farmers", including 21st Century - which means you'll be competing against Farmers on-line. Currently they are taking your prospects and either giving the or selling them to 21st Century - I know this for a fact as its come up in my book a few times. I've also caught a number of policies that were cancelled from my Farmers book at re-written to 21c. Go ahead and try the reverse and see what happens. You have access to 21c clients as a way to cross sell home, life.... go ahead and requote a 21c cleint to Farmers auto - its okay for them to take your book and all of your prospects (that you PAID for) but now they OWN them and can do what they want.



Honestly; you're a pretty new agent and right now you're thinking "Hey;this is cool". In a few years though you (like all of us) will start to resent how much the mother ship holds you back and reaches into your pocket.You mention $250k in gross in your third year - okay; maybe that’s as much as you've ever earned but that’s not take home - you have expenses. I built my business exactly like you - internet leads, working until 8pm and Saturdays, AP's to duplicate myself - its an expensive way to do business with a captive -it goes in waves. When Farmers wants to grow its great - when they don’t, you lose policies like there's a hole in your bucket - retention can become a real issue; especially with these types of clients. By nature they shop all the time. When you stop growing and wind up on the wrong side of the Agency Growth Modle (AGM) you're up the creek without a paddle...and nothing will help you if you dont sell enough life insurance.

Listening to you is like a mirror of me 5 years ago. Had I struck out on my own even two or three years ago I'd be much bigger than I ever was with Farmers

 

[VolAgent]

Just an FYI to anyone who is receiving a new contract for anything. Rarely does the party changing the contract change it to benefit the other party. So just remember that when someone presents you a new contract to sign. I can pretty much guarantee you that it won't be in your favor.

 

[todd02]

No "ouch" here; not in the least. I didn't leave a few years ago -I just left with complete knowledge of the new contract and to the best of my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) there is no new contract yet. Its coming but from what I know it has yet to be released. On how the sale of a book would go; not stated yet. The new contract is very restrictive; one of the sticking points being outside business. I have a large health book and a lot of outside commercial - the new contract seeks to disallow this business. Farmers is currently attempting to sell policies to agencies 150 at a time - in our area they're having issues finding people to take them and have to give them away. Also there are restrictions on who can purchase/obtain policies. You have to be growing. The overall control that Farmers is attempting to grab from its agents is smothering at the very least. Trust me; there is no "ouch" at all.

Do you have an example of any books that have been sold? if so; what was the final rate (1x, 1.5, 2x??). I don't believe that anyone with a book of anyreasonable size is going to be capable of selling their book for anywhere near1.5-2x and I wasn’t aware of anyone that has been allowed to sell yet.

Additionally; Farmers is gearing up to rebrand everything as "Farmers", including 21st Century - which means you'll be competing against Farmers on-line. Currently they are taking your prospects and either giving the or selling them to 21st Century - I know this for a fact as its come up in my book a few times. I've also caught a number of policies that were cancelled from my Farmers book at re-written to 21c. Go ahead and try the reverse and see what happens. You have access to 21c clients as a way to cross sell home, life.... go ahead and requote a 21c cleint to Farmers auto - its okay for them to take your book and all of your prospects (that you PAID for) but now they OWN them and can do what they want.



Honestly; you're a pretty new agent and right now you're thinking "Hey;this is cool". In a few years though you (like all of us) will start to resent how much the mother ship holds you back and reaches into your pocket.You mention $250k in gross in your third year - okay; maybe that’s as much as you've ever earned but that’s not take home - you have expenses. I built my business exactly like you - internet leads, working until 8pm and Saturdays, AP's to duplicate myself - its an expensive way to do business with a captive -it goes in waves. When Farmers wants to grow its great - when they don’t, you lose policies like there's a hole in your bucket - retention can become a real issue; especially with these types of clients. By nature they shop all the time. When you stop growing and wind up on the wrong side of the Agency Growth Modle (AGM) you're up the creek without a paddle...and nothing will help you if you dont sell enough life insurance.

Listening to you is like a mirror of me 5 years ago. Had I struck out on my own even two or three years ago I'd be much bigger than I ever was with Farmers

You are wrong on all accounts.

Farmers new contract has an addendum that is added for agents on the old contract allowing all yr old contract benifits. The reason you have to sign a new contract is because the old contracts only allow a transfer to family of your book.

Second is farmers is pushing online clients direct to my office after they purchase. I get service commissions. Also 21st becoming Farmers means just like Bristol we will be able to write 21st and no longer compete against each other. A retiring agent just sold his book for 1.5% and it contained a lot of old Tfhp policies that are getting book rolled to nextgen so it was tech a high risk book.

I started in 2009, apparently one of the hardest years in history. Expect the 2000 mold scandal... I only know hard so when it's easy I'll be A ok...

Plan on selling my book in a few years hopefully for 2X service commission and start up a investment business.

 

[biaomaha]

Todd, I am glad you are happy and you sound like me too for many years. I believed what they were feeding me and contributed to every program. Being able to sell your book sounds great but thier is few who will be able to purchase it and the ones that can are FIG for life and they will grow through adding the book but there will be a cost ultimately. If FIG can decide rates they will decide if that investment from the buyer will ever pan out.
I always wondered when I was at your time frame why so many agents grew and leveled off then went backwards, I said it would not happen to me. Well it did and yes I could have marketed more but I did a lot and all of the programs they threw out over the years. Ultimately I had a good size book but had debt that because they decided if we were competitive or not I could not retire.
If you have been around since 2009 then you know every program that came on board and more will come. They do not have a focus on what they are and what they want and eventualy you will see it. Amp, take the lead, AGM, BW, VIP you name it they had it and will have more.
When I started with FIG they were tight and knew what kind of client they wanted and if they fit the mold got great rates and we retained them. Too many times over the last 5 years they decided to change what they wanted. As an Indy now it every carrier knows what they want and if you fit the mold you will sell. When I left our in play quotes were about 16% and close ratio was 7%, as an Indy I am in play 75% and close over 60%.
Also if you have the next gen take a very close look at it, we were always tought that the indy agents sold crap policies. That is so far from the truth and honestly all of the companies HO policies I sell are so much better. That is not slamming FIG at all but it is fact please fully read that product.
Anyway sorry so long and I really do hope you have a great career with FIG, best of luck

 

[insurancemet]

For Liberty Mutual, do they expect you to be at the office most 9to5 Mthru Friday or can you work from home, be out in the field or take some days off if you are producing. Also in regards to rates in Northern Ca. Are they less or higher than Farmers? Thanks. Since they pay salary, is if harder to get hired than other insurance companies?

 

[nyc2phi]

For Liberty Mutual, do they expect you to be at the office most 9to5 Mthru Friday or can you work from home, be out in the field or take some days off if you are producing. Also in regards to rates in Northern Ca. Are they less or higher than Farmers? Thanks. Since they pay salary, is if harder to get hired than other insurance companies?

Liberty Mutual is a 9-5 job technically but if you produce well you have a lot of leeway to do what you want. I know some producers that are barley in the office because they are running appointments, prospecting, working from home, ect. I also know some that are at their desk 10 hrs a day. You should know insurance in general is not a 9-5 job, you really need to put hours in here to be sucessful. The ones who always leave at 5 never do well.

I don't know about the rates in your area but LM has a target market and is competitive with that market. Farmers also has theirs and is different from LM. Rates arn't the same for every prospect, you just need to find the prospects that LM likes.

If you have insurance experience or sales experience and show that you are hungry you shouldn't have a problem getting a job.