Recent Grad > Farmers/SF for P&C or Maybe NWML/MM for Life

SuperBiz

New Member
4
Hey,

I would like to start by thanking all the posters in other threads in a similar situation, it really does help. I would have sent a thousand PMs already if there wasn't the 20 post bar to reach. Although, I believe if I just throw out "Go Independent!!! ZINNNG" 20 times, I would be able to make the limit and still stay under the radar.

I feel I have 30+ hours logged reading multiple forums trying to make a decision, hopefully my research and thread will help others in a similar situation.

Quick Bio: I am 26, a recent college grad w/ honors (Finance). Ambitious, Energetic and any other action word that looks fancy on a resume. I'm done working side jobs and doing things under the counter to get by, it's time to invest into a career. Long-term goal: Be my own boss, make it rain $$.

With the state of the economy I was drawn towards P&C, because everybody needs auto insurance. I enjoy a challenge and am not afraid to beat the streets cold calling or waiting in the bushes outside auto malls, so I know I will be successful.(NML and MassMutual will be addressed near the bottom of the post).

I have started the Farmers Agent process, still going through the licensing so I have some time to decide if this is it or not. Here are some of the decisions I have been dealing with:
Captive vs. Independent:
The 4 big reasons to go independent seem to be 1) ACTUALLY being your own boss instead of just feeling like it. 2) Greater ability to cater to the client because of the multiple insurers I can sell for. 3) You own your own book(HUGE). 4) No stress from having a contract hanging over your head and constantly being pushed into your face.

Pros for captive: 1) If you get a good DM, you will have a decent mentor to ease you into the industry and have an experienced member to fall back on. I have ZERO experience, aside from purchasing auto insurance, in the actual insurance industry, so that appealed to me. 2) An established name would be a selling point. 3) I can work out of the DM's office for up to two years, so I should have plenty of time to know if I can make or not in the industry before I have to lease my own space.

I'm not sure if this is correct or not, but assuming I want to leave farmers at the end of the two years, I can sell my existing book back to them. Is that correct? Or do I have to be out on my own for a certain amount of time before I can sell the book back?

A big complaint I have come across is that so many agencies cry about devoting so much time to customer service. Umm, isn't that just part of the job? I figured that is the backbone to a successful agent, that is what puts one Farmers Agent over the other. Is there really an Insurer that handles the majority of customer service so the Agent is free to sell? Doubt it, but let me know if I am wrong.

Many agents have stated with companies such as Farmers and State Farme, there are so many agents on the corner of every block that it is hard to sell. I think this is over come by offering superior customer service. In fact, I think it may be a bonus, because there will be another Farmers Agent on every other corner that has to service my client(at least take the check to pay for that months dues) if my client walks into their office. That makes it easier for the customers, another selling point.

I went to lunch with a local Farmers Agent(20+ years) who said he doesn't care how many Farmers Agents are established, he has a very high retention rate with a loyal customer base, due to good service.

I went with Farmers over State Farm, mostly because Farmers seems to have a better commissions set up. State Farm seems like more of an upfront commitment and harder to leave unscathed if I decided it wasn't for me. From what I have read, it seems like State Farm has a more serious start up program, but there have been more State Farm Agents drowning in debt than Farmers. Regardless which way you go (Farmers/SF/etc.), there are a couple years of 60-80 hour work weeks before you can sleep well at night. If you can survive the first 3-5 then you are set.

You can go to FarmersInsuranceSucks.com and read all the testimonials, but keep in mind there are thousands of agents and millions of customers, there are bound to be unhappy people. That site acts as a focal point for all the hate from clients who really didn't understand their policy coverage, and unmotivated agents who couldn't make sells. I'm not saying there are not legitimate claims, I'm sure there are, many in fact, but we all know someone in our every day life who is unmotivated, gripes about everything, nothing is ever really their fault and the world is always against them(catching my sarcasm?), on a website like the above mentioned, those people blend in, so you never really know how good the source is, and I can make a run on sentence like no other. :)


After turning all this over and over in my head for a few weeks, I was contacted(several times) by a Northwestern Mutual rep. Oh crap, maybe this is a better opportunity...

So now the whole wheel is starting over with NWL vs Guardian vs Mass Mutual...

I haven't researched it as much, but it definitely seems like there is way more money involved in these companies.

My question is, with the economy in it's current state, would it be better to stick with selling P&C with a set up like Farmers, or is it viable to try to rely on selling life insurance, or investments with someone like NWL/MM/Guardian? I would imagine it would be a lot harder to sling life right now, which I know I would do for Farmers to(but in a home/auto/life combo), than it would to push P&C.

Sorry for the long post but I hope it helps someone. I'm looking forward to any responses and any insight the pros can offer.
 
Here is one more black mark on Farmers:

A word of advice, order your own loss runs at least annually to see if there are any claims that you are unaware of. Especially true if you work for Farmers and carry their group sponsored E&O plan. Read about their latest ploy against their own agents and beware....

Farmers Subrogation Claims Against The Agency Force
Subrogation by Farmers against the agent’s E&O policy has become the norm as a business practice for Farmers when on the Farmers sponsored plan.

Most agents fail to understand that Farmers does not necessarily view this as true agent negligence. It is merely a business decision to recover losses through the relationship between Farmers and the Farmers Agency force group plan carrier, Arch. Farmers gets free reinsurance program at the expense of the agent who pays the premium.

In many cases, the agent followed underwriting procedure exactly, underwrote the insured, obtained a signed application and inspected the property and the claim was paid. This type of claim was reviewed by gathering details from the agent files and the Farmers allegation in the subrogation submission. The total losses paid were in excess of $2,000,000. A review was undertaken by the claims staff of the UFAA plan carrier Lexington. The conclusion was that many of these claims paid by the Farmer’s group plan carrier would have been contested if the agent were insured with the UFAA plan carrier as there was no clear breach of the agent’s duty to Farmers.

These claims on your loss history will limit your access to quality insurers, add significantly to your premiums for years thereafter and possible limit your access to carrier appointments due to paid E&O claims if you operate an independent agency after leaving Farmers. They try to hose you up while you work for them and beyond.

Check your record - you may get a surprise.
 
You seem to think that because you will offer better customer service, you will succeed.....well, what makes your better than mine? How will clients know this?

I was with Farmers for 6 years and feel it was mainly a waste of my time, sure i learned alot, but if i had it to do all over again, I wouldnt go with Farmers.

If you can find a good IA to work under, you are a few steps ahead, and you will have your mentor also....

I will admit, since i left farmers 1.5 year ago, it amazes me how little service work I now have compared to Farmers.....

I heard a phrase once......as a Farmers agent, when you hit 350 policies, but when you become an IA, you can hit 1200-1500 policies before you need office staff, simply because of the lack of service work....

Well, I personally think that is a bunch of BS, but i will admit, there is a ton less service work, which makes life much easier
 
Yes, we all think that customer service is the key to success, and maybe to some degree this is accurate. But here's what I know, you will never be all things to all people, the key to your success will lie more in your ability to seek out and work with those who match your personality style.

P&C is most likely easier to work with especially being young. More people are likely to be willing to talk to you. The life business is a tough business right now. Thought it isn't technically as complex as P&C, the expertise that you need not just in the life insurance world, but the financial world makes life much much tougher.
 
You seem to think that because you will offer better customer service, you will succeed.....well, what makes your better than mine? How will clients know this?

I was with Farmers for 6 years and feel it was mainly a waste of my time, sure i learned alot, but if i had it to do all over again, I wouldnt go with Farmers.

If you can find a good IA to work under, you are a few steps ahead, and you will have your mentor also....

I will admit, since i left farmers 1.5 year ago, it amazes me how little service work I now have compared to Farmers.....

I heard a phrase once......as a Farmers agent, when you hit 350 policies, but when you become an IA, you can hit 1200-1500 policies before you need office staff, simply because of the lack of service work....

Well, I personally think that is a bunch of BS, but i will admit, there is a ton less service work, which makes life much easier

I am curious, in your experience, what might you account for the difference in service work between captive and IA?
 
I am curious, in your experience, what might you account for the difference in service work between captive and IA?


Well, honestly, most of it comes down to computer systems, the carrier computer systems and also what the carriers require you to do for them.

Farmers computer system sucks ass royally.

As an IA, if there is a computer system I dont like, i dont use it, and the carriers know this.

With Farmers, you must send in virtually everything about a client, you have to scan into their system and of course, they lose it.

As an IA, I have one company that I have to send signed paperwork into, mainly I have to keep it all in my office or my paperless system which is simply docu-sign,

I think I only have one company that I have to send in good student proof or alarm proof etc....

Simply put, my companies trust the agents, Farmers doesnt.

Yes, I might get audited (havent yet) but I am told, I will get a fax from a carrier and it might say something to the effect of we need 3-5 clients names signatures proof etc faxed to this number within 48 hours.

That simple

Farmers makes you jump thru hoops for no reason,

plain and simple
 
Well, honestly, most of it comes down to computer systems, the carrier computer systems and also what the carriers require you to do for them.

Farmers computer system sucks ass royally.

As an IA, if there is a computer system I dont like, i dont use it, and the carriers know this.

With Farmers, you must send in virtually everything about a client, you have to scan into their system and of course, they lose it.

As an IA, I have one company that I have to send signed paperwork into, mainly I have to keep it all in my office or my paperless system which is simply docu-sign,

I think I only have one company that I have to send in good student proof or alarm proof etc....

Simply put, my companies trust the agents, Farmers doesnt.

Yes, I might get audited (havent yet) but I am told, I will get a fax from a carrier and it might say something to the effect of we need 3-5 clients names signatures proof etc faxed to this number within 48 hours.

That simple

Farmers makes you jump thru hoops for no reason,

plain and simple


You hit the nail on the head, their systems suck, their programs and pricing suck, they do not trust their agents and their agents don't trust them FOR GOOD REASON. Find a way to get out before they terminate you because unless you lie and cheat to write their overpriced policies you can't meet their "unofficial" quotas and they will come after you sooner or later. To be a DM or DMM you have to have no conscience or the company won't hire you. You have to be able to treat people who are the reason you have a job like trash on a daily basis. You have to hire new recruits and tell them they have a future. You terminate people for no just cause knowing that you are taking away their family's income. Justice? Perhaps there is none but I have to believe there is and what goes around will eventually come around. Those of you guilty of screwing over others will reap what you sew.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Well, honestly, most of it comes down to computer systems, the carrier computer systems and also what the carriers require you to do for them.

Farmers computer system sucks ass royally.

As an IA, if there is a computer system I dont like, i dont use it, and the carriers know this.

With Farmers, you must send in virtually everything about a client, you have to scan into their system and of course, they lose it.

As an IA, I have one company that I have to send signed paperwork into, mainly I have to keep it all in my office or my paperless system which is simply docu-sign,

I think I only have one company that I have to send in good student proof or alarm proof etc....

Simply put, my companies trust the agents, Farmers doesnt.

Yes, I might get audited (havent yet) but I am told, I will get a fax from a carrier and it might say something to the effect of we need 3-5 clients names signatures proof etc faxed to this number within 48 hours.

That simple

Farmers makes you jump thru hoops for no reason,

plain and simple


Have you looked at a Farmers customer's bill lately? Don't, they can't get it right 3 times out of 4 on a bet. They literally do not care how many they have to screw to make a buck. Legit or not.
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Hey,

I would like to start by thanking all the posters in other threads in a similar situation, it really does help. I would have sent a thousand PMs already if there wasn't the 20 post bar to reach. Although, I believe if I just throw out "Go Independent!!! ZINNNG" 20 times, I would be able to make the limit and still stay under the radar.

I feel I have 30+ hours logged reading multiple forums trying to make a decision, hopefully my research and thread will help others in a similar situation.

Quick Bio: I am 26, a recent college grad w/ honors (Finance). Ambitious, Energetic and any other action word that looks fancy on a resume. I'm done working side jobs and doing things under the counter to get by, it's time to invest into a career. Long-term goal: Be my own boss, make it rain $$.

With the state of the economy I was drawn towards P&C, because everybody needs auto insurance. I enjoy a challenge and am not afraid to beat the streets cold calling or waiting in the bushes outside auto malls, so I know I will be successful.(NML and MassMutual will be addressed near the bottom of the post).

I have started the Farmers Agent process, still going through the licensing so I have some time to decide if this is it or not. Here are some of the decisions I have been dealing with:
Captive vs. Independent:
The 4 big reasons to go independent seem to be 1) ACTUALLY being your own boss instead of just feeling like it. 2) Greater ability to cater to the client because of the multiple insurers I can sell for. 3) You own your own book(HUGE). 4) No stress from having a contract hanging over your head and constantly being pushed into your face.

Pros for captive: 1) If you get a good DM, you will have a decent mentor to ease you into the industry and have an experienced member to fall back on. I have ZERO experience, aside from purchasing auto insurance, in the actual insurance industry, so that appealed to me. 2) An established name would be a selling point. 3) I can work out of the DM's office for up to two years, so I should have plenty of time to know if I can make or not in the industry before I have to lease my own space.

I'm not sure if this is correct or not, but assuming I want to leave farmers at the end of the two years, I can sell my existing book back to them. Is that correct? Or do I have to be out on my own for a certain amount of time before I can sell the book back?

A big complaint I have come across is that so many agencies cry about devoting so much time to customer service. Umm, isn't that just part of the job? I figured that is the backbone to a successful agent, that is what puts one Farmers Agent over the other. Is there really an Insurer that handles the majority of customer service so the Agent is free to sell? Doubt it, but let me know if I am wrong.

Many agents have stated with companies such as Farmers and State Farme, there are so many agents on the corner of every block that it is hard to sell. I think this is over come by offering superior customer service. In fact, I think it may be a bonus, because there will be another Farmers Agent on every other corner that has to service my client(at least take the check to pay for that months dues) if my client walks into their office. That makes it easier for the customers, another selling point.

I went to lunch with a local Farmers Agent(20+ years) who said he doesn't care how many Farmers Agents are established, he has a very high retention rate with a loyal customer base, due to good service.

I went with Farmers over State Farm, mostly because Farmers seems to have a better commissions set up. State Farm seems like more of an upfront commitment and harder to leave unscathed if I decided it wasn't for me. From what I have read, it seems like State Farm has a more serious start up program, but there have been more State Farm Agents drowning in debt than Farmers. Regardless which way you go (Farmers/SF/etc.), there are a couple years of 60-80 hour work weeks before you can sleep well at night. If you can survive the first 3-5 then you are set.

You can go to FarmersInsuranceSucks.com and read all the testimonials, but keep in mind there are thousands of agents and millions of customers, there are bound to be unhappy people. That site acts as a focal point for all the hate from clients who really didn't understand their policy coverage, and unmotivated agents who couldn't make sells. I'm not saying there are not legitimate claims, I'm sure there are, many in fact, but we all know someone in our every day life who is unmotivated, gripes about everything, nothing is ever really their fault and the world is always against them(catching my sarcasm?), on a website like the above mentioned, those people blend in, so you never really know how good the source is, and I can make a run on sentence like no other. :)


After turning all this over and over in my head for a few weeks, I was contacted(several times) by a Northwestern Mutual rep. Oh crap, maybe this is a better opportunity...

So now the whole wheel is starting over with NWL vs Guardian vs Mass Mutual...

I haven't researched it as much, but it definitely seems like there is way more money involved in these companies.

My question is, with the economy in it's current state, would it be better to stick with selling P&C with a set up like Farmers, or is it viable to try to rely on selling life insurance, or investments with someone like NWL/MM/Guardian? I would imagine it would be a lot harder to sling life right now, which I know I would do for Farmers to(but in a home/auto/life combo), than it would to push P&C.

Sorry for the long post but I hope it helps someone. I'm looking forward to any responses and any insight the pros can offer.


Oh, you young, naive being. Yes your DM is suppose to be a mentor - but check around and see how many want that role or fulfill it? They have their nuts in a vice just like the agents do. After 2 years you should have seen enough with the current climate we are operating under to have enough sense to know what's going on. Your pricing is out in left field....the dashboard has more bugs than a ho's linen closet and they are not interested in fixing them, they do not train on product, they do not update you on product, you are stuck in mars on your own and they (yes your own company) will file E&O claims on you when they have a payout that they want reimbursement on - which is any they can screw anyone out of. They have you doing their grunt service work and actually paying staff probably to do it. Sound like a good business partnership? You'd be better off with a cheating wife and an illegitimate child at least you'd know publically what you are dealing with. Even rattlesnakes rattle before they bite, Farmers just bites. It's not IF, it's a matter of deciding whether you want to get screwed now or get screwed later but you might as well bend over cause it's coming baby.
 
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You terminate people for no just cause knowing that you are taking away their family's income.

Lines like this always crack me up. I like to consider myself a nice person, a decent person. And I've been a manager in the past. At no point do I remember becoming responsible for someone else's family. If you can't do the job, you don't get paid. You can argue all day long that Farmer's is messed up, and you're probably right. But you failed to do it there way, so good-bye.
 
You hit the nail on the head, their systems suck, their programs and pricing suck, they do not trust their agents and their agents don't trust them FOR GOOD REASON. Find a way to get out before they terminate you because unless you lie and cheat to write their overpriced policies you can't meet their "unofficial" quotas and they will come after you sooner or later. To be a DM or DMM you have to have no conscience or the company won't hire you. You have to be able to treat people who are the reason you have a job like trash on a daily basis. You have to hire new recruits and tell them they have a future. You terminate people for no just cause knowing that you are taking away their family's income. Justice? Perhaps there is none but I have to believe there is and what goes around will eventually come around. Those of you guilty of screwing over others will reap what you sew.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



Have you looked at a Farmers customer's bill lately? Don't, they can't get it right 3 times out of 4 on a bet. They literally do not care how many they have to screw to make a buck. Legit or not.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



Oh, you young, naive being. Yes your DM is suppose to be a mentor - but check around and see how many want that role or fulfill it? They have their nuts in a vice just like the agents do. After 2 years you should have seen enough with the current climate we are operating under to have enough sense to know what's going on. Your pricing is out in left field....the dashboard has more bugs than a ho's linen closet and they are not interested in fixing them, they do not train on product, they do not update you on product, you are stuck in mars on your own and they (yes your own company) will file E&O claims on you when they have a payout that they want reimbursement on - which is any they can screw anyone out of. They have you doing their grunt service work and actually paying staff probably to do it. Sound like a good business partnership? You'd be better off with a cheating wife and an illegitimate child at least you'd know publically what you are dealing with. Even rattlesnakes rattle before they bite, Farmers just bites. It's not IF, it's a matter of deciding whether you want to get screwed now or get screwed later but you might as well bend over cause it's coming baby.

How long were you with them?
 
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