I'm thinking of getting appointed to Genworth to sell Long Term Care. I've heard they are one of the big carriers in LTC. Any opinions on their products, underwriting, etc?
Genworth is a ticking time bomb.......If you value your customers (which you should) and you don't want a bunch of trouble down the road, I would look elsewhere. I am not knocking Genworth, but the facts are that they are barely holding on to an "A" rating, and their book of business is way too large, and way too murky. (I used to work for them captive) Personally I would look at Hancock, or my personal favorite, Mass Mutual. I place all of my business with Mass, they have a nice policy and the rates are fair, and I don't have to worry about them having money problems. Don't worry about the premium for MW mutual (unless you are going to work for them) and the premium today really means nothing...what is the premium going to be in 20 years? That is what I am concerned with! Stock Insurance Co (genworth et al.) + rapidly aging book (boomers)+rising claim costs+decreased earnings+unhappy Wall Street=Rate increases. This model is going to have a major problem real soon( if they already don't!)
I think Sluggo had a good point, in all that rambling.
Several major LTC carriers have had to raise rates. Most of the stock companies did, but I'm sure some mutuals did as well. What Sluggo is referring to about Mass is that they have never raised rates on existing policyholders, they just release a new series with new features and the higher premium. That doesn't mean they can't or won't raise rates on existing policies, just that they haven't so far.
Also, MM's latest LTC is participating. Apparently the company feels very good about paying the illustrated dividends, but in a worse case scenario it can be used to offset any cost increase.
All that said, it again doesn't guaranteed no rate increases for MM. But, if they have to raise rates with all that to buffer against an increase, what kind of shape will the other companies be in?
Of course, MM isn't a major player in the LTC field yet, and traditionally MM has some very conservative underwriting. You'd be a fool to only have them in your bag of tricks.
If I were forced to sell a Genworth LTC policy, I would have the client sign a waiver saying they knew this policy would have significant price increases in the future. For that matter, most any LTCi provider has that chance, given how new LTCi is. Companies don't know how to price it. That said, the mutuals (NML, MM, Gardeen, NYL) have the greatest chance of not seeing their premiums go up. The stock companies? It's a crapshoot, and I'd wager Genworth would be one of (if not the) first to increase premiums on a block of business.
Genworth, John Hancock, and MetLife have already handed down big LTC increases. I'm sure they are not alone, but these three are big players in the field.
What century are we living in?
I can't believe agents are still arguing mutual v. stock and non-par v par?
Do the math guys, your arguments don't make any sense.
Deathcab, how many years will ltci need to be around before it's "not new" anymore? how many billions in claims will need to be paid before you consider ltci a legitimate insurance product?
[quote=GonnaFlyNow;181658]what century are we living in?
I can't believe agents are still arguing mutual v. stock and non-par v par?
Do the math guys, your arguments don't make any sense.
[quote]
Any monkey can see that a stock LTCi has a lower initial premium than a mutual LTCi policy. A professional understands why one buys a Benz rather than a Yugo.
Do you understand the difference, GFN? I'd wager any sum of money you don't.
sluggo
Theres so much crap in that post, i dont know where to begin to address it.
You must be a newbie in this biz
To believe such baloney.
It would be funny
If it wasn't so sad
Kw
Are you capable of having a discussion without insulting people? You had a rant on another thread about Zig Ziglar who I do not listen to. People should try to be civil.
Considering Genworth's common stock went from about $37 in Jan 2007 to as low as 0.84 cents on March 6, 2009 leads me to believe it is a less than solid company. The stock has recovered a bit but Genworth would not be my first choice in LTC.
I'm trying to understand your argument here.
You're saying that since genw had an 11% rate increase a couple years ago on policies that were 10 to 15 years old, that means that their policies are underpriced?
Quoting you "they undercharge relative to a risk, and they're all about pleasing stockholders versus pleasing policyholders."
Just out of curiosity, do you know how much higher the mutuals that you sell are in cost?
Everytime i've run a comparison, the mutuals youve referenced are usually priced about 40% (in some cases even 90%) higher than genw.
How do you justify telling your clients to buy a policy that is already 40% higher than other leading long term care insurers?
Is it better to pay 40% more year after year after year (with the hopes of getting a small dividend back. dividends which are usually about 1% of premium paid?) how do you justify that?
You probably don't jsutify it. no reasonable person could justify spending that much more every year.
You probably just have no idea tyat the premiums are that much higher when compared to jh, genw, alz, pru, and other leading ltc cos.
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[quote=Death Cab For Tootie;181669]
Originally Posted by GonnaFlyNow
A professional understands why one buys a Benz rather than a Yugo.
Do you understand the difference, GFN? I'd wager any sum of money you don't.
That is an absurd comparison.
A better analogy would be comparing a porsche cayenne with a vw touareg or comparing the economy lexus with the high-end Camry.
I'm trying to understand your argument here.
You're saying that since genw had an 11% rate increase a couple years ago on policies that were 10 to 15 years old, that means that their policies are underpriced?
That's exactly what I am saying. That, or the powers that be are greedy and see the policy holders as an easy target to rape. You stated Genworth hasn't raised prices on existing policies, which was either a blatant lie or you're ignorant. Either way, you're a piker.
Quoting you "they undercharge relative to a risk, and they're all about pleasing stockholders versus pleasing policyholders."
Just out of curiosity, do you know how much higher the mutuals that you sell are in cost?
Yes.
Everytime i've run a comparison, the mutuals youve referenced are usually priced about 40% (in some cases even 90%) higher than genw.
You're correct.
How do you justify telling your clients to buy a policy that is already 40% higher than other leading long term care insurers?
I don't "justify" it. I show them a mutual LTCi policy side-by-side with a stock policy. I let them know why the mutual policy has a higher premium. I ask them if they would rather pay a lower premium but have a greater chance of seeing a premium increase. They choose, not me.
Is it better to pay 40% more year after year after year (with the hopes of getting a small dividend back. dividends which are usually about 1% of premium paid?) how do you justify that?
I spend about two seconds discussing the dividend. I say, "This policy will eventually be eligible for a dividend. Just thought you'd like to know."
You probably don't jsutify it. no reasonable person could justify spending that much more every year.
Wrong. Just because you're so weak you have to compete on price doesn't mean I have to.
You probably just have no idea tyat the premiums are that much higher when compared to jh, genw, alz, pru, and other leading ltc cos.
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Originally Posted by Death Cab For Tootie
That is an absurd comparison.
A better analogy would be comparing a porsche cayenne with a vw touareg or comparing the economy lexus with the high-end Camry.
I'd rather sell a lot of camrys than the few lexus' you sell.
When I can point out that Mass Mutual hasn't raised prices on existing policyholders but Genworth has, it's hardly a Lexus/Camry comparison. I would equate it to a Benz/Yugo comparison. Sleek, high performance vs. gasping and wheezing to get from A to B.
Look, all you've managed to do is focus on price when comparing policies. I wonder - did you decide to buy a house with good schools, low crime and lots of extras? Or did you decide to move to the ghetto? Remember: cost is only an issue when there is an absense of value. I've proven that, and you haven't proven me wrong. Belive me, I can go toe-to-toe with you, just be prepared to embarassed.
Admittedly, I don't sell much LTCi. But the few times I've had someone run several competing quotes for me versus a mutual, there isn't much difference. Maybe 10 dollars a month on a 300-500 a month premium. I'd gladly pay an extra 10 dollars a month knowing there is little chance I'd see a rate increase next year.
Genworth LTC
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