Getting a job - wow, how things have changed

healthagent · 08-16-2007, 09:20 AM

Heck, I'm not old - only 40. For commissioned sales jobs there's always an actual interview but even before I got into sales and I was applying for regular jobs I remember having a number to call or an address. I remember showing up, normally sitting in a waiting room until a manager brought me in, went over the resume and gave an interview.

My wife just started looking for jobs after 7 years out of the market. She's looking to start in a bakery to get experience.

So far, everything is either "apply online" or "fax resume to." There are no numbers to call, no places to go for an interview. So, she's supposed to apply for a job and she doesn't know the position, duties, location or pay? How insanely arrogant and rude. I'd at least like to know where she'd be working before applying for a job that's an hour away.

She spent literally an hour yesterday filling out an online Costco application - they have an ad in the paper for bakery help. It was like she was applying to be a fighter pilot. 30 daunting "ethical" questions, insane amounts of personal information, former jobs, references, criminal check, credit check, etc....HEY, COSTO - HOW 'BOUT LETTING US KNOW WHAT THE F****ING PAY IS FIRST! LOCATION? IS THE POSITION AT A COSTO A HOUR AWAY?

Same with other ads - just fax resume to.

*STIBROKER@AUSTIN.RR.COM* · 08-16-2007, 09:28 AM

man....makes me shutter......have not had to apply for a job in over 10 years....I don't play well with others.....

Newby · 08-16-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by healthagent

Heck, I'm not old - only 40. For commissioned sales jobs there's always an actual interview but even before I got into sales and I was applying for regular jobs I remember having a number to call or an address. I remember showing up, normally sitting in a waiting room until a manager brought me in, went over the resume and gave an interview.

My wife just started looking for jobs after 7 years out of the market. She's looking to start in a bakery to get experience.

So far, everything is either "apply online" or "fax resume to." There are no numbers to call, no places to go for an interview. So, she's supposed to apply for a job and she doesn't know the position, duties, location or pay? How insanely arrogant and rude. I'd at least like to know where she'd be working before applying for a job that's an hour away.

She spent literally an hour yesterday filling out an online Costco application - they have an ad in the paper for bakery help. It was like she was applying to be a fighter pilot. 30 daunting "ethical" questions, insane amounts of personal information, former jobs, references, criminal check, credit check, etc....HEY, COSTO - HOW 'BOUT LETTING US KNOW WHAT THE F****ING PAY IS FIRST! LOCATION? IS THE POSITION AT A COSTO A HOUR AWAY?

Same with other ads - just fax resume to.

The other side of the coin is: with so many people who have digital resumes all ready to send, if you make it too easy they all just hit the send button even if they really aren't qualified, have no way to get to work, or don't even have a strong interest in the job. They just hit the send button if they have the slightest interest. And you have to wade through thousands of apps just to find the six real ones.

When I hired at the Honda dealership, I required everyone to fill out my actual application in their own handwriting. Many who had professionally designed resumes would be offended and say "it's all there in the resume." I didn't care. I want to see them fill out my application.

Resumes are like advertising (all fluff and professionally designed) and I believe that requiring them to fill out my application which also had a few problems to solve was going to bring out more information about their personality and abilities.

The idea behind blind adds is: many of your good customers will see your ad and apply and may be offended when you don't hire them. Also, you may be advertising to replace a position that isn't open yet and you don't want the person you are about to replace to leave until you have their replacement hired in.

policy doctor · 08-16-2007, 09:59 AM

I remember looking at career builder web site one day, and i noticed the same thing, except for insurance jobs....LOL

The better jobs are gotten thru networking....or volunteer situations.

Thanks to rampant immigration, there is more competition for the average jobs. And if you think it's tight now, think of what your kids will face.

So you better build a successful business....that will be your legacy. Or hope your kid is a genius so doors open to him.

Tell your wife to get a gov't job. I'll try to find that article and post it.

Frank Stastny · 08-16-2007, 10:03 AM

Gave me chills just reading it. I cringe at the thought of having some pencil neck geek still wet behind the ears make a decision about hiring me just from info on a piece of paper. Work ethic and personalities seem to no longer be important. Those are the two main things I wanted to know about someone I was interviewing.

Why does everything have to be a secret and so complicated today.? Does it make people feel more important. We are teaching people not to talk to other people. We have technology to thank for that. Just in case you can't tell, I don't play well with others either. LOL

policy doctor · 08-16-2007, 10:05 AM

Here is a website that is quite an eye opener...at least to me.

Have fun reading, esp the one about Fed employees avg income is $111,000. Makes me wish I had a job there.

FedSmith.com - For the Informed Fed

healthagent · 08-16-2007, 11:02 AM

I did 4 years of hiring when I was a regional sales manager with energy marketing. I hired everyone from reps to secretaries to managers.

NOTHING beats just setting up a time for people who are interested in the position to come in for an interview.

*I get to see who's late for the interview - tells me everything
*I get to see how they're dressed - tells me everything
*I get to see their personality - tells me everything
*I get to meet people who technically might not qualify however have other attributes that makes them a proper fit.

If you have people faxing you resumes it tells you nothing. With this current method only the people who look good on paper get chosen. I think that's severly flawed.

CHUMPS FROM OXFORD · 08-16-2007, 12:24 PM

Another reason not to believe a resume...

Click on this link NOW or you will become addicted to Internet poker and move into a van down by the river!

Fake Resume - Home of The Fake Resume Guide

healthagent · 08-16-2007, 12:40 PM

Resume's are bull. I can post that I was the director of some national foundation and give my buddy's cell phone number as my "manager." My friend would be more than happy pick up the phone; "Vandalet Industries" and go on and one about how great I was.

You can download fake diplomas, you can put fake jobs on your resume and just say the company went out of business. One of the biggest cons is simply putting that you have a degree on your resume when you never went to college. I can't think of a single employer who would ask for your transcripts or diploma.

Job details are also enhanced and bloated on resumes and job titles are misleading. Every piker in sales who can't put two deals together has been "National Vice President of International Sales."

al3 · 08-17-2007, 01:55 AM

I've not had a job for 30 years... I left EDS in 1977 at age 30 and started my own business.

Like John, I would hire people... not paper. Ross Perot taught me to hire smart people, not 'qualified' people. Smart people can do almost anything. Qualified people can only do what they are qualified to do. That was a great "life lesson" I learned from him.*

Al
* I also learned from him "If God had intended Texans to ski, he would have made bull---- white."

Mr. Bill · 08-17-2007, 02:12 AM

I have to disagree about the faxed resume - I could not believe what people would send over. We can all forgive ourselves typing around a website with our spelling and grammatical errors, but on a resume? No way.

I ended up firing 'em all. In the future, I'm going to cut 'em off at the knees right quick, as has been recommended on the board.

Even if it's a "just starting out" job, an employer has to expect a smart cookie won't be around very long if they're paying minimum wage!

ajtour42 · 08-17-2007, 02:29 PM

What's scary right now is that most resumes are not read by humans. They're scanned and studied by a computer system which looks for "key words."

So, let's say you're totally qualified for a job as a marketing manager. And, let's say the computer is trained to look for "achieved, raised, sold, and awarded." If you don't use those words in your resume, it'll toss you out. Even if you used other pertinent action words like "increased, named, won, and grew." And, God forbid you use too many bullet points. The computer won't be able to "read" the resume, and it'll automatically toss you out of the running.

I'm always on the lookout for a more stable career, and I rarely send my resume directly to the number / e-mail listed in the ad. If the company name is listed, I use Google to find a real human being in the department the position is posted for. I send it to them instead. At least this way a human being with sense (hopefully) can read my cover letter and resume and make a more informed decision on whether to interview me or not.

ajtour42 · 08-17-2007, 02:30 PM

Oh, and totally agreed on the lunacy of posting a position and not at least giving a ballpark salary range.

Why should I waste my time, and yours, by going through the motions of applying for a job, only to find out two interviews later that it pays $6 an hour when I have a Master's Degree?

Newby · 08-17-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajtour42

Oh, and totally agreed on the lunacy of posting a position and not at least giving a ballpark salary range.

Why should I waste my time, and yours, by going through the motions of applying for a job, only to find out two interviews later that it pays $6 an hour when I have a Master's Degree?

...or $6 an hour when I have a high school diploma!

senior-advisor-indiana · 08-18-2007, 03:52 PM

Fantastic point Newby!!!

Macdaddy · 08-18-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajtour42

Oh, and totally agreed on the lunacy of posting a position and not at least giving a ballpark salary range.

Why should I waste my time, and yours, by going through the motions of applying for a job, only to find out two interviews later that it pays $6 an hour when I have a Master's Degree?

Depends.

Is your Masters in something that qualifies you for to be more competent for the position than the guy without one?

My brother has a Masters in business, lives in the basement of my Mom's house, will not even try to get a job, and plays video games all day long.

His previous job was weed wacking.

Does he deserve 6 bucks an hour? Yup.