AXA or MassMutual for Career?

asu47

Expert
32
So I have been at AXA not long enough to even really be done with training. I obtained the Life and Health License, Series 7/63/65, I paid for all the testing fees. Before I started there was just something that were really glossed over in interviews that came to light when I started Very minor and not worth the detail, but it was the fact these were hidden from me, and seemed so on purpose. EX: Never was told I need to pay to go work charity events, pay to read self help books (i hate reading).

I read all over the internet pretty much confirming my ill feelings. Things like "turn and burn employees", pushing you to sell to family then never even get contracted, etc etc.

I got an offer from MassMutual and it is solid. They pretty much match my commission up to 32k/21k/11k on 1st year/2nd/3rd. So basically 40k in commission year 1 = 72k fresh out of college.

From what I can tell both positions are pretty much similar besides pay structure, contract, and benefits; here MM beats AXA in all these areas by a landslide. When trying to quit AXA today they sale pitched the **** out of me how at AXA your so much more independent to do what you want and have the freedom to shop around different products from different companies, and at MM your REQUIRED to sell their 3 products of Fixed Annuity, Whole Life, and Term life (MM 4 core products are actually VA, Whole Life, DI, and LTC). That you have to please the policy holders who own the company and your basically forced to sell MM products to hit min commission marks to stay hired.
After leaving I pretty much felt I was fed so much bullshit to get me to try and stay. Thankfully, MM prepares a 50 page document outlining everything from A-Z for new employees. I look over the MM packet and realize that yeah I have to sell atleast $12,000 worth of MM products for in the first year, and it increases slightly over time, but it did not seem unreasonable. Also looking I realize that 25% of my production from outside of MM products applies to that minimum.

I talked to the manager at MM about what AXA told me, and how I felt like I was deceived a little because this packet tells me otherwise. He pretty much confirmed everything I read in the packet and said something along the lines of "yeah obviously if you sell a MM product your commission is going to be a lot higher and is going to give you frivolous bonuses like going on trips to Hawaii if you sell enough MM products, but at the end of the day you have to do whats right for the client for not only moral and ethical reasons, but for compliance purposes too."

I have pretty much made up my mind and am going to MassMutual, but wouldn't mind seeing if there were some other opinions to people who have insight on either company. I want to be able to have freedom to build the book of business my way, and not forced to slang insurance to people who are looking for investments instead. My 23 year old friends making 60k a year with no gf, kids, mortage, etc want things like growth mutual funds, not whole life insurance. Of course getting insurance this young would be smart due to the excellent health, but you can't get many 23 year olds to think like that. All about suitability of the client ;). Long term I would ideally like to start my own producer group.
 
This...

I got an offer from MassMutual and it is solid. They pretty much match my commission up to 32k/21k/11k on 1st year/2nd/3rd. So basically 40k in commission year 1 = 72k fresh out of college.

contradicts this:

I look over the MM packet and realize that yeah I have to sell atleast $12,000 worth of MM products for in the first year, and it increases slightly over time, but it did not seem unreasonable. Also looking I realize that 25% of my production from outside of MM products applies to that minimum.

You will only get a commission match on MM business.

Just wanted to be sure that you understand that.
 
I actually read through this, and further solidified my decision with massmutual.

Very good information.

DHK,

Yes I am aware that the match is only related to MM products. There is however a minimum number to stay contracted, which 25% of the outside business can be applied towards that minimum from my understanding
 
I have pretty much made up my mind and am going to MassMutual, but wouldn't mind seeing if there were some other opinions to people who have insight on either company. I want to be able to have freedom to build the book of business my way, and not forced to slang insurance to people who are looking for investments instead. My 23 year old friends making 60k a year with no gf, kids, mortage, etc want things like growth mutual funds, not whole life insurance. Of course getting insurance this young would be smart due to the excellent health, but you can't get many 23 year olds to think like that. All about suitability of the client ;). Long term I would ideally like to start my own producer group.

I'd be curious to know if your office supports any kind of LEAP training. Based on your post, I can tell that you lack a lot of knowledge about how permanent life insurance works AND how to explain it to a client.

Let me put it this way: When you can learn how to STOP segmenting your client's money into different categories, and learn how to put a holistic plan together to include spending needs, saving, investing, insuring, and planning for the future... all based on permanent life insurance... you won't WANT to sell anyone anything else. And clients will ask "How much can I put in?"

If you're lucky, you'll learn about that at your MassMutual office.
 
DHK, I have no idea what I am doing...

I have passed my S7/63/65 and L&H license and that is it. I really don't have much formal training or experience. I started getting the offer at MM right as I was starting at AXA, I made it about 4 weeks before I finally got the interview process done with at MM and had an official offer.

As for LEAP training, I am not sure what that is, but on the organizational chart, there are people who have a "LEAP" designation next to their series license for example:

Sales Manager
John Doe
6, 63, LEAP

I see so many very negative things about AXA that I can definitely see coming to light. The negative things I see at MM are people complaining about it being an all commission job, which is ridiculous. Obviously they didn't do their homework.
 
Home | Leap Systems

It's a selling system and methodology that helps you as an agent, to communicate the benefits of owning permanent life insurance and maximizing the cash values. However, I believe that MassMutual requires that you "qualify" to be allowed to use the LEAP system.

This video was made by MoneyTrax (a LEAP off-shoot) but it's still very good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpx2Jh87puA

So here's the thing I wanted to mention: Don't be too concerned about doing things "your way" until you are shown a PROVEN way that WORKS to generate business. You can adjust and finesse it over time.

For me, the Insurance Pro Shop's methods that they teach for fact-finding and presenting are the BEST I've ever seen as well as being very inexpensive... and you can get a membership to their member's only video training for only $25/month:
http://www.insuranceproshop.com/insurancemarketing/insurancemarketing.html

They'll be raising it to $35/month next year, so the sooner you choose to lock-in your rate, it might be better off for you.

As far as training for securities... that's a whole other ball of wax.

----------

BTW, I had also felt a similar feeling when I was at American Express Financial Advisors (Now Ameriprise) over 10 years ago... and I left.

Looking back, I think I should've stayed. I could've learned a lot more there because of THEIR structured training process.

At MassMutual, from my own experience and others I've read about, they are less structured and leave it up to junior agents doing joint work.
 
Thanks for all the advice DHK.

As far as the training process, AXA is no different. Working for a bank in my opinion would fall into the structured category based on what others have told me.

Honestly, joint work I think will work just fine for my style of learning. I went on 2 meetings at AXA with my manager and he ran them, and I feel pretty confident after a couple more joint work meetings I could nail it.

I also prefer a less structured environment and having freedom and independence. I have been running small online businesses since I was 18, and I was going to continue those businesses until I learned I could create my own schedule working for a company like AXA or MM.

Based on my short time at AXA I felt like they are still trying new things and haven't really perfected their business model. My manager has been in the industry for about 3 years. Manager at MM has been in the game for 9. MM really seems to have their systems in place, and I also understand all this stuff varies office to office.
 
DHK,

Thank you so much for this advice. It is nice having a sort of mentor/someone to ask who won't give me a biased opinion. Your answers and responses have given me more information then my hours of research... I am very grateful.

AXA training is pretty much non existent. I have made it through about 80% of it, so at least I got that training under my belt. I have about 15-20 hours at AXA I never was compensated for in training, but the knowledge I learned I will chalk that up to compensation. There training pretty much goes like this: Learn how to run meetings, blow through the online training module, set meetings, have manager come with you and take 20-25%.

In my opinion I like this joint work. I learn by watching others do things. For example: while studying for my series exams I went home to bartend my dads bar. Within 48 hours of standing over someone's shoulder I was pretty much running the show. Other bartenders asked me questions, customers looked at me as the manager.

Point is, I have been on 2 meetings with my manager at AXA and I felt like I learned A LOT. Enough to be confident enough into running a meeting with friends/family. What I don't know about is product knowledge and the right thing to hook the right client up with.

AXA and MM training module sounds pretty similar in my opinion. I also prefer the less structured culture. I have been a business owner since I was 18 and really enjoy that freedom. I was going to continue these businesses out of college until I learned the freedom you have as an FA.
 
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