Scroll down for a discussion on Guaranteed Issue/final Expense within the Life Insurance Forum.
In your opinion, what company GI/FE gives the best bang for the buck considering ratings, premiums, and commisions? I've never had the need to write ...
In your opinion, what company GI/FE gives the best bang for the buck considering ratings, premiums, and commisions? I've never had the need to write one of these policies, this would need to be a company that I can broker for this specific situation, I'm not sure if there are alot of exclusive or captive companies operating in this space. Oh by the way, is there a underwriting with final expense policies unlike guaranteed issue? If this is the case then I suspect I'll get two sets of answers for the above question.
Yep, gona likely need at least 2 different companies. For near GI I like to use LH 15pay. Good commissions, good price, advance, and payed up in 15 years. There are many good ones to use for healthy people that do not need gi as many more companies are in that market. You can contact me at jimsowder@family1stinsurancebrokerage.com if you want some more information.
in your opinion, what company GI/FE gives the best bang for the buck considering ratings, premiums, and commisions? I've never had the need to write one of these policies, this would need to be a company that I can broker for this specific situation, I'm not sure if there are alot of exclusive or captive companies operating in this space. Oh by the way, is there a underwriting with final expense policies unlike guaranteed issue? If this is the case then I suspect I'll get two sets of answers for the above question.
Thanks guys for your feedback!
And when you say "GI", you mean no health questions, right?
To be more specific....let's for example say that I have a handful of people that are in their late 70's or early 80's with medical issues ranging from type 2 diabetes...to heart attacks...previous cancer ect. I would assume (maybe I shouldn't) that most insures wouldn't touch this business outside of a guaranteed issue "graded benefit" similiar to what presidential life offers. (this is the only company I've ever had even a slight amount of experience with in this market). So this is my real question...who do you recommend for the above scenerio? can you give specifics about what this stuff pays? i want to know if it will even be worth me and my staff's time and efforts. How large do death benefits go?
Clients younger than this with no health issues, I will recommend to go through full underwriting with one of the "big 3 mutual" life insurers with a good dividend paying cash value plan or a UL
I have several that I recommend. Loyal American has one of the best priced graded that I've seen. Then you also have Assurity, Americo, and UHL. Forethought has a decent one too, but I don't like their chargeback policy.
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Todd R. King
800-590-7207
540-400-6275
888-748-3978 Fax
Do the right thing because it's simply the right thing to do.
to be more specific....let's for example say that I have a handful of people that are in their late 70's or early 80's with medical issues ranging from type 2 diabetes...to heart attacks...previous cancer ect. I would assume (maybe I shouldn't) that most insures wouldn't touch this business outside of a guaranteed issue "graded benefit" similiar to what presidential life offers. (this is the only company I've ever had even a slight amount of experience with in this market). So this is my real question...who do you recommend for the above scenerio? can you give specifics about what this stuff pays? i want to know if it will even be worth me and my staff's time and efforts. How large do death benefits go?
Clients younger than this with no health issues, I will recommend to go through full underwriting with one of the "big 3 mutual" life insurers with a good dividend paying cash value plan or a UL
You know what they say about those who assume....getting coverage for someone with Type 2 diabetes, heart issues, or previous cancer can be done underwritten, and sometimes with even a standard rating or better depending on the circumstances. A few companies will use a "table shave" program to give someone that would normally be issued Table 2-4 a standard rating if they purchase a UL product. Always good to get an overview of the client's medical history and shop the case with 10-12 major carriers before assuming otherwise.
Well is some cases those people would qualify for 100% coverage day one with some carriers. For the diabetes some will issue full coverage if they take under so many units a day. For heart attacks some ask as few as 1 year from problem for full coverage. For cancer some ask for as little as 18months for full coverage. If they have bigger issues I go over to a graded plan then.
Originally Posted by CFP83
to be more specific....let's for example say that I have a handful of people that are in their late 70's or early 80's with medical issues ranging from type 2 diabetes...to heart attacks...previous cancer ect. I would assume (maybe I shouldn't) that most insures wouldn't touch this business outside of a guaranteed issue "graded benefit" similiar to what presidential life offers. (this is the only company I've ever had even a slight amount of experience with in this market). So this is my real question...who do you recommend for the above scenerio? can you give specifics about what this stuff pays? i want to know if it will even be worth me and my staff's time and efforts. How large do death benefits go?
Clients younger than this with no health issues, I will recommend to go through full underwriting with one of the "big 3 mutual" life insurers with a good dividend paying cash value plan or a UL
What I'm hearing the most from your feedback and PM's is UHL, Americo, & Forethought.....anybody think I'm missing a major "arrow in the quiver"?
Finally, looking for some honest feedback--in the next twelve months if I do lets say 20 policies that average $3000 per year with Americo what should a producers commission rate be at that production level? UHL? I know they have a range on their commission payouts
I would put monumental in the bag of arrows, they are rated A+ and has name recognition to say the least. They have an awesome lead credit program too.
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"First by deflation then by inflation, central bankers will deprive your children of all land and liberty"
"Central Bankers are more dangerous than standing armies"
Forethought has a decent one too, but I don't like their chargeback policy.
Todd - you know that rumor about a 12 month charge back was only for SPWL and graded polices where the client croaked in the first year OR if the client canceled in their 30 day free look period.
If they just lapse or cancel - then the charge back is pro-rated, Pretty much standard with most carriers I believe.
Originally Posted by CFP83
What I'm hearing the most from your feedback and PM's is UHL, Americo, & Forethought.....anybody think I'm missing a major "arrow in the quiver"?
Seems you have one in mind - who is it?
Finally, looking for some honest feedback--in the next twelve months if I do lets say 20 policies that average $3000 per year with Americo what should a producers commission rate be at that production level? UHL? I know they have a range on their commission payouts
20 in the whole year? I wouldn't even answer my phone when you called for support if i was your upline - no offense . . .
$3,000 AP per policy? The average FE policy in our group runs between $50 and $60 a month. Your estimate would be $250 a month - that's funny . . .
Tom
------------------------------------ " If you must Hate - Hate the Game and not the Players "
Guaranteed Issue or Graded Death Benefit is a great niche market. I learned about this market in 2001, back when Americo had a no questions asked app through College Life. It would take anybody. So of course all of the agents including myself, when and wrote anyone that could fog a mirror. With 2 years they pulled the product off of the market. They had to many death claims to fast. Then later came back and added the common questions that most Graded Policies now asked today. It is important to ask some question on these apps. Like have you been told you are going to die in the next 24 months, do you have aids/hiv,. With just asking a few of these questions, it makes a big difference in death claims and allows the product to stay on the market.
I specialize in this market. It is a great niche market. I look for clients that have had a heart attack, stoke, cancer, or been told they can't buy life insurance and then I help them get coverage they need. I've also learned how to find large groups of people that I could go after.
A big untapped market to prospect <--- Here is a great post that I made on this forum, sharing some of my idea on how to prospect to this niche market.
If any of you would like for me to show you how to market these types of products or to share some ideas on this products, just contact me.
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Mark Rosenthal aka markingriffin
IMO/Ins Agent/Agent Trainer/Free Advice markcrosenthal@aol.comwww.realfastservice.com
Please visit mywebsite to learn more about me.
Email me for my Free Prospecting MP3 Tapes.
Back 6 or 7-years ago, Forethought had a product called Maxima. It had immeadiete 30% coverage for everyone as soon as it was issued- no exceptions even if you were under hospice care. 70% at the 12th month.
My Forethought rep told us as long as were were putting at least 80% good business (stayed on the books over 24-months) to keep writing anyone that we could meet. Those were amazing times.
That product was on the market about 15-years before they changed it.
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J Scott Burke
Funeral Preplanning
Life Insurance
Medicare Supplements
Long-Term Care Insurance
Annuities
Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee www.newburyfinancial.com
Back 6 or 7-years ago, Forethought had a product called Maxima. It had immeadiete 30% coverage for everyone as soon as it was issued- no exceptions even if you were under hospice care. 70% at the 12th month.
My Forethought rep told us as long as were were putting at least 80% good business (stayed on the books over 24-months) to keep writing anyone that we could meet. Those were amazing times.
That product was on the market about 15-years before they changed it.
Like all things, no doubt this niche was exploited by some short-cut agents or agencies. Therefore it exists no more.
Cincinnati Life used to have a decent guar issue product as well. I forget the dynamics of it by percentage, but what I really liked about what this... As an agent you had a book of 10 policies. You simply wrote the app, tore it out along with the policy, and left the policy behind with the client. Not only guaranteed isssue, but INSTANT ISSUE as well. Sweet. The Rep with CLICo told me they had some adverse selection with the product, and therefore... bye, bye.
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"A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him." David Brinkley
20 in the whole year? I wouldn't even answer my phone when you called for support if i was your upline - no offense . . .
$3,000 AP per policy? The average FE policy in our group runs between $50 and $60 a month. Your estimate would be $250 a month - that's funny . . .
Tom
Because of my investment and insurane business as well as having access to over 1000 "ophan policyholders" my statutory company has given me to prospect I find a lot of 75 to 80 year olds with heavy loans on whole life policies that still have 10-15k of cash in them. Since the loans will eventually make the policy implode it would make sense to take the cash value...and since they haven't exceeded their cost basis, put it into a money market to supplement a 30-50k policy to use as FI. The only FI policies I've done are with Presidential and they were 4200 and 5100 per yr respectively...they key here is that is wasn't out of pocket money we used existing cash values in a policy that was doom to fail with a 81 & 83 yr old with major medical issues.
This is a unique situation and I understand the confusion. If these people had to pay out of pocket every month this would make sense at all....in this scenerio it's more of a transfer of dollars.
Because of my investment and insurane business as well as having access to over 1000 "ophan policyholders" my statutory company has given me to prospect I find a lot of 75 to 80 year olds with heavy loans on whole life policies that still have 10-15k of cash in them. Since the loans will eventually make the policy implode it would make sense to take the cash value...and since they haven't exceeded their cost basis, put it into a money market to supplement a 30-50k policy to use as FI. The only FI policies I've done are with Presidential and they were 4200 and 5100 per yr respectively...they key here is that is wasn't out of pocket money we used existing cash values in a policy that was doom to fail with a 81 & 83 yr old with major medical issues.
This is a unique situation and I understand the confusion. If these people had to pay out of pocket every month this would make sense at all....in this scenerio it's more of a transfer of dollars.
That math doesn't make sense to me. If they are paying $4,200 per year and only have $10,000 to start with, by the time they have full-coverage with Presidential (I assume it's 2-year graded) they will have run out of dollars to pay the premium.
The situation you are talking about is where they need to do a single-premium wealth transfer policy. But you can't turn $10,000 into $50,000 with it expecially at age 83.
That math doesn't make sense to me. If they are paying $4,200 per year and only have $10,000 to start with, by the time they have full-coverage with Presidential (I assume it's 2-year graded) they will have run out of dollars to pay the premium.
The situation you are talking about is where they need to do a single-premium wealth transfer policy. But you can't turn $10,000 into $50,000 with it expecially at age 83.
That math doesn't make sense to me. If they are paying $4,200 per year and only have $10,000 to start with, by the time they have full-coverage with Presidential (I assume it's 2-year graded) they will have run out of dollars to pay the premium.
The situation you are talking about is where they need to do a single-premium wealth transfer policy. But you can't turn $10,000 into $50,000 with it expecially at age 83.
Forgive me for not explaining throughly. In one of the example situations I gave, I had an 71 year old that had 10,800 of cash value and a net death benefit factoring in loans of 15,500 in her old whole life contract. She has a number of major health problems. We took the 14800 of cash value and put it in a high yield money market at American Funds with check writing priviliges. We then set up automatic contributions to the MM from her checking account monthly of what made sense for her situation (its always about suitability with me) which was $200 per month. Now the GI product I put in place was around 4200 per year with a 35,000 death benefit and remember she is putting into the MM at a rate of 2400 per year, So we're only have a burn rate on the MM of 1800 per year not factoring in the interest that the money is earning.
Forgive me for not explaining throughly. In one of the example situations I gave, I had an 71 year old that had 10,800 of cash value and a net death benefit factoring in loans of 15,500 in her old whole life contract. She has a number of major health problems. We took the 14800 of cash value and put it in a high yield money market at American Funds with check writing priviliges. We then set up automatic contributions to the MM from her checking account monthly of what made sense for her situation (its always about suitability with me) which was $200 per month. Now the GI product I put in place was around 4200 per year with a 35,000 death benefit and remember she is putting into the MM at a rate of 2400 per year, So we're only have a burn rate on the MM of 1800 per year not factoring in the interest that the money is earning.
The math still seems fuzzy to me. Was her cash value 10,800 or 14,800? I am also not sure how prudent it is to take a 71 year old lady with a number of major health problems and put her in a new policy with a new incontestability period. What was the premium on the original policy? How much was the cash value increasing? If there was a loan on it, how much was the loan?
With 10,800 in cash, it would be gone in about 2.5 years at 4200 per year. Besides what is a high yield money market in today's world - 1.5%?
On the service, based on the limited info provided, it doesn't sound like it makes too much sense to me. I would tread very lightly before telling a 71 year old lady with a number of major health problems to cancel a life insurance policy. Why not just buy a smaller additional policy or borrow from the first to fund the second without canceling it?
You might consider putting some money in one of those high yield mm accounts to fund some e & o insurance .
The math still seems fuzzy to me. Was her cash value 10,800 or 14,800? I am also not sure how prudent it is to take a 71 year old lady with a number of major health problems and put her in a new policy with a new incontestability period. What was the premium on the original policy? How much was the cash value increasing? If there was a loan on it, how much was the loan?
With 10,800 in cash, it would be gone in about 2.5 years at 4200 per year. Besides what is a high yield money market in today's world - 1.5%?
On the service, based on the limited info provided, it doesn't sound like it makes too much sense to me. I would tread very lightly before telling a 71 year old lady with a number of major health problems to cancel a life insurance policy. Why not just buy a smaller additional policy or borrow from the first to fund the second without canceling it?
You might consider putting some money in one of those high yield mm accounts to fund some e & o insurance .
Guaranteed Issue/final Expense
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