Erik, you sound like a nice person, but I have to list my experience with Allwebleads (AWL). Please check out my thread titled "my experience testing allwebleads.com" on 8/31/08.
I tested your site after I continued to get the "your the 5th person to call in the last 5 minutes..." and the ROI I calculated.
I opened a yahoo email account and went to your lead generation site and completed a request. The results were something else.
Testing a lead source is the only way to see what you are getting for your money. My experience over 6 months with AWL was about 9% conversion. With another provider I was testing returned 22%. This difference in ROI made me test and the thread listed above opened my eyes as to why I was getting such a poor return with AWL.
One thing I am impressed with AWL is the amount of leads they produce. I calculated they generated on average about 1200 per day over the 6 months I was using them. Imagine selling 1200 per day at $10 per lead to minimum of 2 agents (read my thread above and you will see this number is pretty low). you get $8,760,000 per year. I know there were about 6 people running AWL when I was using them, so overhead was low. Jim Waltrip and Ryan Petterson (owner/part owner, not sure) must be doing very well. This made me realize I was on the WRONG side of this business.
Good luck
Russelltw
Remove spaces to see links or just search google on "jim waltrip all web leads"
[COLOR=#008000]austin. bizjournals. com/austin/ stories/ 2008/06/30/story8.html Congrats on that aspect. AWL is amazing when it comes to that....[/COLOR]
Reuters article is impressive also. Multi-million dollar business within one year.
My experience over 6 months with AWL was about 9% conversion. With another provider I was testing returned 22%
22% is not sustainable in volume, 9% is not bad at all IMHO.
Depends on the cost of leads and ROI which the conversion of course does not reveal without more information.
I can name top (large) lead companies that consistently convert 2-5% and they are some of the largest lead providers out there.
Most top tier lead providers are all sharing data anyhow (which is why they ask for your license number) they encrypt it so duplicates do not appear (and you bust them).
With top tier companies it is almost irrelevant who you buy from, it comes down to filters and who has the cheapest price.
I hear you guys about buying more than 12 leads to close more deals. I cannot afford more than that. Should I buy aged leads than? How do I do the dialer John?
Aged leads can get very expensive and time consuming. I would say aged leads are good practice or more for the veteran agent with an effective automated dialer.
My costs have always been higher on aged leads than any other lead.
TX - I know your ROI on LeadPod was horrible but it's a life saver for a lot of agents who simply don't attempt to contact the lead enough times. I still recommend them.
Cost of acquisition is about $40 to $60 more per client however at an average profit of profit of $500 per deal so what if it's $450 if it keeps you in the business and you have a life.
I hear you guys about buying more than 12 leads to close more deals. I cannot afford more than that.
Not trying to discourage you, but quite frankly if you can't find a way to beg, borrow or steal some working capital to invest in decent marketing, this might not be the career for you...
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[COLOR=blue]Don't steal - the government hates competition.[/COLOR]
A) Come in with at least $2,000 for leads (minimum)
B) Do at least 4 hours of cold calling per day (b to b or telemarketing)
C) Watch the days tick by until quit
Testing a lead source is the only way to see what you are getting for your money. My experience over 6 months with AWL was about 9% conversion. With another provider I was testing returned 22%. This difference in ROI made me test and the thread listed above opened my eyes as to why I was getting such a poor return with AWL.
Russeltw - sorry we werent able to produce the ROI you were looking for. We're always adjusting our lead generation approach and the algorithms we've developed for bidding/distribution to try to provide the best balance of value to the consumer and the agent.
You sound like someone who understands the sort of work and analysis required to make your business work - many agents expect leads to sell themselves or have otherwise overestimated what they'll get from a lead vendor. We get great reviews from many of our customers who are happy with the leads and the ROI we deliver to them in their area. But we also know that we're never going to be perfect for everyone.
My own personal feeling is that a good lead source should have somewhere between 10-20% conversion - if the pricing is right at that level it should be very profitable and productive for the agent.
Let me know if you ever want to give us another shot - we'd be happy to analyse the filters and potential leadflow to help you get the best value from our service.
Most top tier lead providers are all sharing data anyhow (which is why they ask for your license number) they encrypt it so duplicates do not appear (and you bust them).
Is the issue that the lead providers share - or is it that the agents buy from multiple providers, or that the consumers fill out multiple forms?
In all of these scenarios you would want duplicates suppressed to provide the best value to all involved.
Last edited by erikAWL : 01-11-2009 at 02:21 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
....you are also highly skilled with 30 years of experience. New agents are doing well with shared leads closing 1 out of 15...then they can work on that number.
Are you suggesting a closing ratio (which has nothing to do with ROI) of 1:10 - 1:5?
Personally, I look for an ROI of 5:1 and usually get 6:1 - 8:1.
Excuse me, but being a newbie at buying leads, I have to ask:
1) what are you using to calculate ROI?
2) how are you comparing a conversion to a closing ratio? (it would appear to me that you are saying that 20% of 100 =20, so closing 1 in 5 would mean 20 out of 100, right?)
3) So how does ROI differ from conversion or closing?
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To be truly independent, an agent should not be dependent on a government bureaucrat for contracts or commissions.
Is the issue that the lead providers share - or is it that the agents buy from multiple providers, or that the consumers fill out multiple forms?
In all of these scenarios you would want duplicates suppressed to provide the best value to all involved.
The issue is lead companies selling to other lead companies. Virtually everyone does it without getting into specific names. This is done to "maximize" the number of time a lead is sold, but no one can police this.
Lead provider A sells 5 times, Lead provider B can sell a maximum of 4 times (Assuming max sell of 9 times, which is most common). The rules are seriously bent and there is no transparency.
If I order leads from company A it could actually be an undersold lead from company B,C, or D who I choose not to do business with.
You know the business.
If I buy leads from company A they better not come from B,C, or D unless full transparency exists.
Are you suggesting a closing ratio (which has nothing to do with ROI) of 1:10 - 1:5?
Personally, I look for an ROI of 5:1 and usually get 6:1 - 8:1.
yes, sorry for the marketing-speak. I mean conversion-to-customer (ie, close) rate of 10-20% which is closing 1 of every 5-10 leads. I like your ROI ratio approach. Do you know other agents who drive by as formal ROI measurements as you?
Do you know other agents who drive by as formal ROI measurements as you?
Frankly, I don't know anyone closing anywhere close to 1 of 5 leads. Several may CLAIM they are but they may also claim they have slept with J-lo.
Anyone who approaches this as a business calculates ROI.
1) what are you using to calculate ROI?
2) how are you comparing a conversion to a closing ratio? (it would appear to me that you are saying that 20% of 100 =20, so closing 1 in 5 would mean 20 out of 100, right?)
3) So how does ROI differ from conversion or closing?
1) Total annual commission divided by total lead cost. If my commission per sale is $600 and I have to buy $100 in leads then my ROI is 6:1.
2) Closing ratio's are meaningless. The ONLY thing that matters is ROI.
3) Closing ratio is a measure of activity. ROI is a measure of profitability. Say leads cost me $40 each. If I close 1 out of 5 leads but it costs me $200 to secure a client and my commission is $150 I am losing money even though my closing ratio is ridiculously high. To be successful you have to balance the money you spend on leads against your average expected commission. My average commission is probably a bit higher than most ($650 or so) because I work almost exclusively with families and older ages.
I also spend a great deal of time with folks who have health issues that many agents walk away from. The result is a high placement ratio and a higher than average premium.
Frankly, I don't know anyone closing anywhere close to 1 of 5 leads. Several may CLAIM they are but they may also claim they have slept with J-lo.
Anyone who approaches this as a business calculates ROI.
1) Total annual commission divided by total lead cost. If my commission per sale is $600 and I have to buy $100 in leads then my ROI is 6:1.
2) Closing ratio's are meaningless. The ONLY thing that matters is ROI.
3) Closing ratio is a measure of activity. ROI is a measure of profitability. Say leads cost me $40 each. If I close 1 out of 5 leads but it costs me $200 to secure a client and my commission is $150 I am losing money even though my closing ratio is ridiculously high. To be successful you have to balance the money you spend on leads against your average expected commission. My average commission is probably a bit higher than most ($650 or so) because I work almost exclusively with families and older ages.
I also spend a great deal of time with folks who have health issues that many agents walk away from. The result is a high placement ratio and a higher than average premium.
I'd argue that the only thing that matters it net profit. What good is ROI if $1 returns $6 if you have low lead volume and only put in a deal a week.
Who makes more:
A) Great agent - $1 to $6 ROI - goofs off most of the day, doesn't put a lot into leads - makes $800 a week net.
B) Bad agent - $1 to $3 ROI - works their butt off all week, buys a ton of leads and makes $3,000 net.
I can't tell you how many talented but lazy agents I've met. They have all the knowledge and skill in the world but are either unmotivated or have no ambition. ROI for those people is meaningless since they're still broke.
I know a lot of very average agents - average in the way of closing skills - yet they are work horses and earning more than $150,000 a year. They could care less what their ROI is - don't track it, don't need to.
Last edited by healthagent : 01-12-2009 at 08:06 AM.
"The issue is lead companies selling to other lead companies"
Strange thing happened with ASAP over the weekend. I received a lead identical to a NQ lead I received about a week earlier. Sure, the person could have entered their information twice.
But oddly, the wording and spacing of the lead was exactly the same. I'll email ASAP today. Hopefully, it was not a duplicate lead.
Re: Health Insurance Leads
Re: Health Insurance Leads
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