The Dismantling of ObamaCare - Ongoing Updates.

[VolAgent]

The answer to almost every single post in this thread is "personal responsibility" or in other words "actually giving a sh*t about yourself, your kids, and society".

You cant legislate parenting, you cant legislate health, you cant legislate personal priorities, and the schools can only do so much with the very little they are given to work with.

Yes, but you and most people on here were taught personal responsibility by your parents. Many of the children in public school only have one parent who is barely a parent at that. Between just checking out of their responsibility or working multiple low paying jobs to support a family.

I think personal responsibility is great, but who are they going to learn it from?

 

[kgmom219]

The answer to almost every single post in this thread is "personal responsibility" or in other words "actually giving a sh*t about yourself, your kids, and society".

You cant legislate parenting, you cant legislate health, you cant legislate personal priorities, and the schools can only do so much with the very little they are given to work with.

Can we legislate so that oral birth control is OTC, so the women can pick it up with their ding-dongs at Walmart?

Also, as an FYI, if you haven't heard of WIC, it actually does a lot of what this thread is suggesting. Its for pregnant women, infants and children. Its not "cash", its coupons, based on what is needed at that stage. Coupons for diapers, formula, milk, dried beans, apple juice, etc. Coupons are picked up monthly, usually require a parenting class to get them. Shots are either given or you prove they are up to date and in most states, the mom's can get their birth control. (Except in stupid states, that think they shouldn't be having sex. Since that's realistic.)

Its the "giveaway" program that makes sense.

Also, I am all in favor of requiring home ec/shop for everyone graduating High School. I also don't think they all need Pre-Calc to graduate, either.

 

[STIBROKER]

Also, I am all in favor of requiring home ec/shop for everyone graduating High School. I also don't think they all need Pre-Calc to graduate, either.

Some people I know need a refresher course in cooking chicken......hahahahaha

 

[cornelius322]

Yeah but your example client's cost is no where near the cost of my Crohn's ... I don't have to explain the costs of Humira. And I can't de-Crohn's myself, but I'm doing better than about 95% of the Crohn's people I know in part because all four of my obstructions (all hospitalizations) leading up to my fifth hospitalization (surgery) were all when I worked for two different Fortune 100 companies with a three year break in between. Now with my own single-member LLC, I'm kicking it and am way healthier because it seems my auto-immune is triggered in toxic large corporate settings. I would have never made the leap to self-employment without the ACA.

Nothing gets better until we decide to live more healthy lifestyles. You cannot continue to eat like the vast majority of Americans and expect that yet another pill for the doctor will help you feel better.

I cannot tell you how many times a potential client tells me they are taking 3+ meds, are overweight, have type II diabetes then finish the sentence with "other than that, I am healthy." No, no you are not. Stop taking your meds and see how you feel. Look around at any public place and see how many people are overweight or obesely overweight.

If everyone would take that smart phone they carry around all the time and use one of those calorie counters (fat secret is one I use), they would realize that they under estimate how many calories they consume, and gross over estimate how many calories they burn with "exercise." But hey, taking a pill (of 4 pills) is much easier to do...

We drink way too many of our calories in the form of sugary drinks. I have seen several friends lose a ton of weight (a close female family friend lost 70 lbs), just by cutting out sugar.

When I went through a similar situation, I cut out processed foods. My 2 rules were if it will rot in a few days, I cannot eat it. Number 2 was if my great great great great grandmother would not recognize it as food, don't eat it (sorry Oreos).

We are the real problem. Eat real food, eat less of it, and move around. That is the answer for our problem. Getting off soap box now.

 

[LGilmore]

You Won't Believe How Much Food Stamp Recipients Spend On Soda

SNAP recipients spent more money — more than $1.9 billion total — on sweetened beverages, frozen prepared foods, desserts, high-fat dairy, and salty snacks than they did on fruits, vegetables, milk, bread, and crackers, which totaled nearly $1.4 billion.

Know this was pages ago, but I would like to address it. Having worked a decade in grocery in a store where 40% of the daily business was food stamps and being the person who shops for my household can I give you an observation that may explain things a bit. It is not that I disagree with you but the question is how do we solve for this problem.

First only a tiny fraction "cheat" the food stamp system. There have always been guys who buy steaks and lobsters to sell at the bar for drug money. We always had a couple of them. Funny thing was after a few months they disappeared from the area and you never saw them again.

The majority were large families who stocked up on basic foods, but a lot of prepared foods and high carb foods. Depending on the mom's ability to cook you'd either see a lot of fresh foods or not. The less ability to cook, the least likely for fresh produce to be in the cart and meats beyond hamburger and sausage. No expensive cuts of meat or types that required prep.

The thing that hasn't changed in 40 plus years of being around food shopping is that these food stamp folks, attempt to spend every dollar allowed in a single visit. You often tell them by carts filled to the top with cases of things like top Ramen sticking out like caution flags. Here is the root problem.

Most of the people on public assistance are afraid that any second, they will lose their benefit, so they spend all of it on one visit. The concept of food stamps is to provide for an entire month which would mean weekly shopping for fresh foods, the actual utilization is the opposite. They load up for the month in one stop, so most bad foods last forever and are cheap, don't require refrigeration or special prep, they load up.

With the smart cards we can program to exclude foods, but the problem is the fear of losing the benefit that drives a lot of the purchasing decisions. We have to educate this segment rather than heap scorn upon them. The scorn just makes it worse.

If we want to change habits, we have to educate and encourage good food choices. If we want to improve their health, we have to be Ok with he concept of food stamps and not make it seem like we want to take it away. Wise use of the assistance doesn't come from attacking the person on it.

 

[Ann H]

Know this was pages ago, but I would like to address it. Having worked a decade in grocery in a store where 40% of the daily business was food stamps and being the person who shops for my household can I give you an observation that may explain things a bit. It is not that I disagree with you but the question is how do we solve for this problem.

First only a tiny fraction "cheat" the food stamp system. There have always been guys who buy steaks and lobsters to sell at the bar for drug money. We always had a couple of them. Funny thing was after a few months they disappeared from the area and you never saw them again.

The majority were large families who stocked up on basic foods, but a lot of prepared foods and high carb foods. Depending on the mom's ability to cook you'd either see a lot of fresh foods or not. The less ability to cook, the least likely for fresh produce to be in the cart and meats beyond hamburger and sausage. No expensive cuts of meat or types that required prep.

The thing that hasn't changed in 40 plus years of being around food shopping is that these food stamp folks, attempt to spend every dollar allowed in a single visit. You often tell them by carts filled to the top with cases of things like top Ramen sticking out like caution flags. Here is the root problem.

Most of the people on public assistance are afraid that any second, they will lose their benefit, so they spend all of it on one visit. The concept of food stamps is to provide for an entire month which would mean weekly shopping for fresh foods, the actual utilization is the opposite. They load up for the month in one stop, so most bad foods last forever and are cheap, don't require refrigeration or special prep, they load up.

With the smart cards we can program to exclude foods, but the problem is the fear of losing the benefit that drives a lot of the purchasing decisions. We have to educate this segment rather than heap scorn upon them. The scorn just makes it worse.

If we want to change habits, we have to educate and encourage good food choices. If we want to improve their health, we have to be Ok with he concept of food stamps and not make it seem like we want to take it away. Wise use of the assistance doesn't come from attacking the person on it.

This is some of the root problem in obesity. Eat it now, because you may not get a meal later. It's not just at the top level of psychological behavior. Its roots are deeper in the survival mechanisms, and in the emotions of fear, loss and lack that drives one to consume when the product is available. For people with those psychological drivers the behavior shows up in other ways, like the inability to prioritize saving for the future. Delayed gratification works best when you're not starving, or have a history of starving, or even the fear that you might starve soon. I really like your compassionate style, and I agree that changing habits and its root drivers is important. Not sure how to do that with an adult generation, but perhaps the best way is to start with the children. Feed them, nourish them physically and emotionally, and give them tools to succeed for themselves. As STIBroker mentioned before, a tool may as simple as cooking skills. Or the tool may be something emotional, like the expectation that s/he can succeed.

 

[somarco]

Potatoes, macaroni & cheese, beans & rice are all cheap and go a long way towards filling the bellies. This leaves a lot of money left over for sweets and other food items that stimulate the pleasure centers in your brain.

Educating the poor about proper diet will work as well teaching them about money management and birth control.

 

[LGilmore]

Potatoes, macaroni & cheese, beans & rice are all cheap and go a long way towards filling the bellies. This leaves a lot of money left over for sweets and other food items that stimulate the pleasure centers in your brain.

Educating the poor about proper diet will work as well teaching them about money management and birth control.

So does your pov help the situation?

I mean you hit on birth control. Access to birth control lowers unwanted births and abortions, you can look that up. So availability and education do seem to work. Where I worked the biggest social problem was the Catholic Church who were against birth control and set up housing programs where if a 15 year old girl got pregnant, she got her own place and a subsidy for each kid.

A lot of the low income teen girls were getting pregnant to have their own place and the $700 a month that went with it. So an incentive was created to have babies to get your own place and get paid for it.

This was over 30 years ago and so people like that were now on their own, having to cook, while never learning how. We've had a couple generations grow up without really knowing wholesome cooking. So without education how do you expect them to learn?

by the way mac and cheese is not a wholesome food.

 

[russelltw]

Yeah but your example client's cost is no where near the cost of my Crohn's ... I don't have to explain the costs of Humira. And I can't de-Crohn's myself, but I'm doing better than about 95% of the Crohn's people I know in part because all four of my obstructions (all hospitalizations) leading up to my fifth hospitalization (surgery) were all when I worked for two different Fortune 100 companies with a three year break in between. Now with my own single-member LLC, I'm kicking it and am way healthier because it seems my auto-immune is triggered in toxic large corporate settings. I would have never made the leap to self-employment without the ACA.

True Cornelius. But your situation is not something you did to yourself by poor diet and lack of exercise. Your situation is what insurance is for. To protect against risks you don't see coming. My brother in law is in a similar situation. He developed diabetes (type I) as a child.

I feel like ACA is what car insurance would be if everybody paid the same rate. The guy who has 3 dui's gets the same deal as you. Even though no one made him get drunk and drive (self-inflicted). Where as someone hits you with no car insurance, you have un/under insured coverage on your policy to protect against that.

I am simply saying a LOT of the health problems with people are self-inflicted.

 

[somarco]

Car insurance has SR-22 coverage for high risk drivers who pay higher than standard premiums.

Lenders have non-conforming loans for people who are a poor credit risk.

Workers comp have modifiers for higher risk businesses.

Life insurance has table rates for people who do not meet the "norm" for preferred or standard rates.

Only health insurance, as designed by Obamacare, no longer has a separate risk category for high risk individuals. How stupid is that?