The Dismantling of ObamaCare - Ongoing Updates.

[toddoxley]

Average price of a tire is $115, each tire lasts 50k miles or 4 years (avg American drives 13k miles a year). This roughly equals $115 a year.

Average cost of an oil change in America is $30 and an oil change is recommended every 3k miles which means 4-5 oil changes a year. This roughly equals $150 a year.

Average cost of a car battery is $100 and lasts 4 years. This roughly equals $25 a year.

Total cost for your auto insurance to cover batteries (deductible), oil changes (copays), and tires (coinsurance) is an extra $290 or $25 a month.

I think I would pay that...

That is the point, these things are priced for the consumer to pay for not a multi billion $$ third party ( insurance company). Make no mistake about it, office visits, lab / X-ray's, rx's are not currently priced for the consumer to pay, they are priced for multi billion $$ insurors to pay. Imagine if the P/C industry could not rate for the risk and had take all applicants( no mvr, clue / credit reports). How about having to issue an insurance contract on a home/ auto after a loss. Both Health and P/C is insurance but really is apples and oranges.

 

[AllenChicago]

Here's some last minute American Health Care Act changes that might be incorporated before tomorrow's House vote on the bill.

The requirement that 10 Essential Health Benefits be included in all "qualified" Major Medical plans, will be removed.

Story: AHCA tweak could eliminate Essential Health Benefits - Business Insider

That COULD lower premiums somewhat. But as long as people can buy a plan whenever they want to, and have full, immediate coverage, premiums will remain sky high...and could perhaps go higher than they are now.

I can't imagine why ANY health insurers would participate in this. If no other company launches new health plans soon, I'm going to take a harder look at U.S. Health/Freedom Life. (USHEALTH Group | Family and Individual Health Coverage )

 

[workerscomp1]

That is the point, these things are priced for the consumer to pay for not a multi billion $$ third party ( insurance company). Make no mistake about it, office visits, lab / X-ray's, rx's are not currently priced for the consumer to pay, they are priced for multi billion $$ insurors to pay. Imagine if the P/C industry could not rate for the risk and had take all applicants( no mvr, clue / credit reports). How about having to issue an insurance contract on a home/ auto after a loss. Both Health and P/C is insurance but really is apples and oranges.

Help me out--- the above mentioned services office visits, lab/ imaging etc. are not the budget busters-- are they not the chronically ill group health member or the end of life Medicare Medicaid patient that take up most of the Healthcare dollars???

BTW P/C (Agents) industry has tons of coverages that we have to take (Flood, wind, high risk auto certain liability groups, bonds......) but we always have some kind of ( HELLO) STATE CITY OR FEDERAL PUBLIC OPTION TO DO SO!!!!!!!!!

 

[bluemarlin08]

Here's some last minute American Health Care Act changes that might be incorporated before tomorrow's House vote on the bill.

The requirement that 10 Essential Health Benefits be included in all "qualified" Major Medical plans, will be removed.

Story: AHCA tweak could eliminate Essential Health Benefits - Business Insider

That COULD lower premiums somewhat. But as long as people can buy a plan whenever they want to, and have full, immediate coverage, premiums will remain sky high...and could perhaps go higher than they are now.

I can't imagine why ANY health insurers would participate in this. If no other company launches new health plans soon, I'm going to take a harder look at U.S. Health/Freedom Life. (USHEALTH Group | Family and Individual Health Coverage )

U S Health requires you to drop all other carriers and be captive.

 

[Ann H]

Average price of a tire is $115, each tire lasts 50k miles or 4 years (avg American drives 13k miles a year). This roughly equals $115 a year.

Average cost of an oil change in America is $30 and an oil change is recommended every 3k miles which means 4-5 oil changes a year. This roughly equals $150 a year.

Average cost of a car battery is $100 and lasts 4 years. This roughly equals $25 a year.

Total cost for your auto insurance to cover batteries (deductible), oil changes (copays), and tires (coinsurance) is an extra $290 or $25 a month.

I think I would pay that...

What a wonderful example of exactly what happened to health insurance.

A doctor's office visit used to cost little, prescriptions were affordable, and having a baby cost a week's salary.

Then came the non-transparent, third-party payer system.

The employer paid for it (using pre-tax dollars, so the government paid for it), and they used insurance, so the insurance company paid for it.

And the cost was not told to the consumer. The consumer paid a $10 copay. Consumption spiked, frugality dropped.

So, a $115 tire would become $1000, the $150 annual oil changes are now $1250, and a car battery costs $250 a year. So, annual costs are $2500, or roughly $200 a month on top of your car insurance premium. But there's more. You must have preventive checkups on your car for free. And windshield wipers, radiator fluid.... How about people without a car? They should be subsidized on a car loan to buy one, and the gas to run it. And people who buy a gas-guzzler (bad lifestyle) should receive benefits despite their poor choices. After all, the employer and the government are paying for it, so we can't be non-discriminatory. As for non-discriminatory, there are 10 Essential Car Benefits (ECBs). Every car must have them, even if you don't need them, don't use them, and don't want them.

Final result --- auto insurance becomes unaffordable, because the end-user is not the decision maker. The end-user doesn't even know how much these things cost, and can't get a price on them when they ask for it. They find out how much it cost when they get a claim, but sadly they usually don't even look at the claim, because they just pay a $10 copay at the point of service. The end-user isn't making decisions, and can't control costs. When costs rise to shocking levels, the end-user wants to stop the madness, but the answer is to lower the benefits on the car insurance. Get rid of the EHBs and coverage for oil changes, car batteries and tires. Raise the deductibles. But whoa!! Now we can't do that! Why? Because the $115 yearly cost for tires (which became $1250 at the beginning of our story) now costs $3000, going up to $3,500. Yet, if you don't have insurance, it costs $8,700, due to deadbeats who don't pay for tires when they get them. We MUST have insurance for it!! Why? It's unaffordable.

And so the story goes. Ad nauseum.

 

[Justin Bilyj]

What a wonderful example of exactly what happened to health insurance.

A doctor's office visit used to cost little, prescriptions were affordable, and having a baby cost a week's salary.

Then came the non-transparent, third-party payer system.

The employer paid for it (using pre-tax dollars, so the government paid for it), and they used insurance, so the insurance company paid for it.

And the cost was not told to the consumer. The consumer paid a $10 copay. Consumption spiked, frugality dropped.

So, a $115 tire would become $1000, the $150 annual oil changes are now $1250, and a car battery costs $250 a year. So, annual costs are $2500, or roughly $200 a month on top of your car insurance premium. But there's more. You must have preventive checkups on your car for free. And windshield wipers, radiator fluid.... How about people without a car? They should be subsidized on a car loan to buy one, and the gas to run it. And people who buy a gas-guzzler (bad lifestyle) should receive benefits despite their poor choices. After all, the employer and the government are paying for it, so we can't be non-discriminatory. As for non-discriminatory, there are 10 Essential Car Benefits (ECBs). Every car must have them, even if you don't need them, don't use them, and don't want them.

Final result --- auto insurance becomes unaffordable, because the end-user is not the decision maker. The end-user doesn't even know how much these things cost, and can't get a price on them when they ask for it. They find out how much it cost when they get a claim, but sadly they usually don't even look at the claim, because they just pay a $10 copay at the point of service. The end-user isn't making decisions, and can't control costs. When costs rise to shocking levels, the end-user wants to stop the madness, but the answer is to lower the benefits on the car insurance. Get rid of the EHBs and coverage for oil changes, car batteries and tires. Raise the deductibles. But whoa!! Now we can't do that! Why? Because the $115 yearly cost for tires (which became $1250 at the beginning of our story) now costs $3000, going up to $3,500. Yet, if you don't have insurance, it costs $8,700, due to deadbeats who don't pay for tires when they get them. We MUST have insurance for it!! Why? It's unaffordable.

And so the story goes. Ad nauseum.

Wonderful illustration Ann!

 

[workerscomp1]

Seems like their is a fair amount of denial about the share of blame Medical providers(Docs, Hospitals skilled nursing DME vendors,.......) get in the healthcare$$$crisis on this Forum. It's all well and good to blame the public and the "dead beats" they deserve it agreed! Yet Medical providers who have stockowners, investors and banks to answer to , who generally work in some type of FEE FOR SERVICE(the more you do the more$$$you make)agreements are not worth mentioning when handing out blame for the healthcare $$$ crisis?? Is everybody on this forum related to a Doctor or Nursing home owner?? Just kidding but here is my Illustration:

We have four times the usage(days) of ICU(Intensive Care Units) as does the Republic of Germany(per thousand citizens)$$$$$$

In several States we have had Gold Seal Tort Reform which has resulted in some of the lowest malpractice premiums in a generation yet (guess what) some of the highest Medical inflation rates in the Country$$$$$$$$$

We have( per thousand citizens) just as many Medical Professionals(DOCs Nurses, therapists of all kinds) as almost any western country yet we have a "SHORTAGE"$$$$$$$$$$

Proven cost savers like Telemedicine, Medical tourism,Electronic living wills, increasing Scopes of Practice of Pharmacists, Nurses Phys Assistants Chiropractors have been met with stiff resistance by a lot of the players in the medical Industry$$$$$$$$$$$

Not Blaming Medical providers is like pointing out the shoplifters on Death row!

 

[Ann H]

We thought that point was obvious, which is why we didn't state it. Or actually "restate it" is more appropriate, considering that it has been stated multiple times on this forum.

Seems like their is a fair amount of denial about.... on this Forum.

I've noticed that you often talk about what this forum is "in denial about" or "doesn't know about". If you think we are stupid, why do you post here?

 

[RayNY]

Average price of a tire is $115, each tire lasts 50k miles or 4 years (avg American drives 13k miles a year). This roughly equals $115 a year.

Average cost of an oil change in America is $30 and an oil change is recommended every 3k miles which means 4-5 oil changes a year. This roughly equals $150 a year.

Average cost of a car battery is $100 and lasts 4 years. This roughly equals $25 a year.

Total cost for your auto insurance to cover batteries (deductible), oil changes (copays), and tires (coinsurance) is an extra $290 or $25 a month.

I think I would pay that...

You forgot to add on administrative cost, marketing, legal fees, and profit.

Reality is, pre-paid maintenance plans are 10-20% more expensive than just paying for the service you need.

If you really want one, literally every manufacturer offers it because it's so damn profitable. There's dozens of 3rd parties with that product too.

 

[Justin Bilyj]

Looks like the vote was delayed, I predict it won't pass, House Liberty Caucus doesn't look like they're budging..