Over 150.000 insurance professionals and consumers come to the Insurance Forum every month. Click here to register for FREE

Go Back   Insurance Forum > Insurance Agents and Brokers Forum > Health Care Reform Forum
Register NOW - It's Free !!! Forum Rules Today's Posts

Reply to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income     
Old 10-04-2013, 11:52 PM   #1
Guru
STIBROKER on Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income - Insurance Forum
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts:8,643
State: STIBROKER is an Insurance Agent from Texas
Send a message via Skype™ to STIBROKER
STIBROKER is a member of 5000 posts Super VIP club
Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
I have been trying to wrap my mind around this when I first saw it.......now....IF this is true......AND the sub's ARE considered taxable income.....and people are suppose to guesstimate what their income is going to be in 2014 will these sub's also be counted as income.....added to what they make....will it cause a claw back on everyone that takes a sub......

...btw..when I asked it on the broadcast last night "Austin Texas Affordable Care Act Live Town hall Meeting"....this was censored on the Link keye uploaded for re-watch...so to see the question asked uninterrupted you would have to be watching live on the net...
Shopping Guide - Save money

"How Your Savings Are Applied"

If you qualify for a credit toward your health insurance premium, your savings are considered a tax credit and taxable income. This credit will be applied directly toward your monthly premium. Talk with a tax expert to decide if and how to use your credit. "


KEYE...not broadcasting the rest of this question...


part 2.....




Last edited by STIBROKER; 10-05-2013 at 12:58 AM.
  Reply With Quote to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Old 10-05-2013, 12:10 AM   #2
Guru
AllenChicago on Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income - Insurance Forum
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts:4,395
State: AllenChicago is an Insurance Agent from Illinois
AllenChicago is a member of 1000 posts VIP club
Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income re: Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
I have "heard" other people saying that the APTC (subsidy) is taxable just like normal income, but I could never find an IRS publication with this wording.


This could be a Trojan Skunk that the IRS slipped into one of its new RULES over the Summer...dry rules that the media never reads. Maybe BCBS-TX found this in one of them? If so, having to add the subsidy to one's income would turn even more citizens against the Affordable Care Act.


Thanks for pointing this out STIBroker! It looks like people will have to estimate their subsidy based on their subsidized-adjusted income. Sounds like this could be an analogous to the dog chasing his tail.


Are there any super analytical members here that can find this new IRS rule and share it with us?


ac


Edit: I just checked our BCBS-IL website. It says the same thing:
Ref - http://www.bcbsil.com/health-insuran...insurance-cost
------------------------------------

Last edited by AllenChicago; 10-05-2013 at 12:13 AM.
  Reply With Quote to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Old 10-05-2013, 12:23 AM   #3
Guru
STIBROKER on Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income - Insurance Forum
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts:8,643
State: STIBROKER is an Insurance Agent from Texas
Send a message via Skype™ to STIBROKER
STIBROKER is a member of 5000 posts Super VIP club
Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income re: Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income STIBROKER is the thread starter for: Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income

Originally Posted by AllenChicago View Post
Thanks for pointing this out STIBroker! It looks like people will have to estimate their subsidy based on their subsidized-adjusted income.
and subsidize them out of subsidies in the second year....does not cost the govt. a dime.....

----------

Originally Posted by AllenChicago View Post
but I could never find an IRS publication with this wording.
That is why I tried to call The IRS on Oct 1....got a recording....do to the govt shut down we are closed....

  Reply With Quote to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Old 10-05-2013, 12:32 AM   #4
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts:2,818
State: TXINSURANCE is an Insurance Agent from Undisclosed Location
TXINSURANCE is a member of 1000 posts VIP club
Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
I do not see how an advanced tax credit would meet any logical definition legal or otherwise of income.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...=1&word=income

Definitely needs clarification.

------------------------------------
ObamaCare Live Transfers http://www.acacalls.com
  Reply With Quote to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income

Register Now for FREE!
To sign up for your FREE INSTANT account, please complete the form.

Username:
    Password:   Confirm Password:     E-Mail:   Confirm E-Mail:     
   
Question of the day:   What is the fifth letter of the word Insurance? I agree to forum rules 


Old 10-05-2013, 12:48 AM   #5
Guru
STIBROKER on Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income - Insurance Forum
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts:8,643
State: STIBROKER is an Insurance Agent from Texas
Send a message via Skype™ to STIBROKER
STIBROKER is a member of 5000 posts Super VIP club
Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income Re: Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income STIBROKER is the thread starter for: Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income

Originally Posted by TXINSURANCE View Post
I do not see how an advanced tax credit would meet any logical definition legal or otherwise of income.

income legal definition of income. income synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Definitely needs clarification.

In the words of Si Robertson ..."IT'S THE LAW JACK"



  Reply With Quote to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Old 10-05-2013, 12:55 AM   #6
Guru
houcoogster on Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income - Insurance Forum
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts:3,112
State: houcoogster is an Insurance Agent from Texas
houcoogster is a member of 1000 posts VIP club
Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income Re: Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Originally Posted by TXINSURANCE View Post
I do not see how an advanced tax credit would meet any logical definition legal or otherwise of income.

income legal definition of income. income synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Definitely needs clarification.
I'm with you. People get Earned Income Tax Credits those are not treated as income.

However MLR rebate checks from group plans are taxable.

Maybe we'll be able to write off the penalty off as a tax deductible expense.

------------------------------------
www.TexasHealthGuy.com
  Reply With Quote to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Old 10-05-2013, 01:09 AM   #7
Guru
Ann H on Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income - Insurance Forum
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts:3,877
State: Ann H is an Insurance Agent from Arizona
Ann H is a member of 1000 posts VIP club
Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income Re: Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Originally Posted by TXINSURANCE View Post
I do not see how an advanced tax credit would meet any logical definition legal or otherwise of income.

income legal definition of income. income synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Definitely needs clarification.
The big issue here is that BCBS published it on their site. Blue Cross usually does not publish anything unless their legal department has reviewed it, and STI called them and they said their legal department approved of it. BCBSTX has the same parent company as BCBSIL, and both are showing the same statement.

I have searched for documentation ever since STI told me about the rumor a few days ago, and I cannot find any documentation for it being income. Neither can any CPA we talked to. We even called the CPAs who produce seminars on PPACA for other CPAs and they had never heard of the APTC subsidy being income. However, that doesn't mean it's not hidden somewhere in the 20,000+ pages of regs. So if anybody has proof that it is true, please show us the source documentation! If true, this is HUGE. What a nightmare that would be.

Now, we know that excess subsidy is taxable. So, for instance, if you get a $4,000 subsidy but you are only qualified for $2,000 of it, then the excess is taxable. (EDIT: I should have said "additional tax" instead of "taxable". It's also called a clawback.). But what STIBroker is talking about is more than just excess subsidy. The BCBSTX site says the whole subsidy is taxable income. Crazy, I tell you. Since when is a tax credit also taxable income?
------------------------------------

Last edited by Ann H; 10-05-2013 at 06:32 PM. Reason: see the part I marked "EDIT"
  Reply With Quote to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Old 10-05-2013, 01:53 AM   #8
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts:2,818
State: TXINSURANCE is an Insurance Agent from Undisclosed Location
TXINSURANCE is a member of 1000 posts VIP club
Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Originally Posted by houcoogster View Post

I'm with you. People get Earned Income Tax Credits those are not treated as income.

However MLR rebate checks from group plans are taxable.

Maybe we'll be able to write off the penalty off as a tax deductible expense.
MLR group rebate checks are taxable because that money was never taxed.

I suspect this is just a case of bad verbage on the site...
------------------------------------
  Reply With Quote to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Old 10-05-2013, 03:18 AM   #9
Guru
STIBROKER on Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income - Insurance Forum
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts:8,643
State: STIBROKER is an Insurance Agent from Texas
Send a message via Skype™ to STIBROKER
STIBROKER is a member of 5000 posts Super VIP club
Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income Re: Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income STIBROKER is the thread starter for: Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income

Originally Posted by TXINSURANCE View Post
I suspect this is just a case of bad verbage on the site...
Really...try 2 sites...Texas and Illinois....

----------

and the thing that makes this a quagmire how are self employed that work on commissions ....contacts ....project income in 2014.....have a home builder friend that made $30,000 this year...family of 5....next year thinks he will do $175,000.....how do you deal with this....if anyone had half a brain would have set this up to were the sub's that you get for 2014 are determined by what you file for in 2013.....NO CLAW BACKS..... and so forth.....



  Reply With Quote to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Old 10-05-2013, 06:36 AM   #10
Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts:1,205
State: bluediamond is an Insurance Agent from Undisclosed Location
bluediamond is a member of 1000 posts VIP club
Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income Re: Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
This question was asked at every seminar and we were told no it was not considered taxable income, by Florida Blue legal department who was present at one of them.
------------------------------------
  Reply With Quote to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Reply to Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income 

  Insurance Agent Forum > Insurance Forum > Insurance Agents and Brokers Forum > Health Care Reform Forum


Tags
health care reform




Similar Threads with Health Care Reform Subsidies Are Considered a Tax Credit and Taxable Income
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EIULs and Missed Fortune honestagent Life Insurance Forum 70 08-28-2013 08:05 AM
IRS Sets Rules for Disclosure Under Obamacare Duaine Health Care Reform Forum 1 08-21-2013 03:35 PM
Health Care Reform Magic somarco Health Care Reform Forum 1 11-19-2009 01:52 AM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53 PM.

Forum enabled with vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Join the Forum - It's FREE

Share This Page



Weekly Poll

When it comes to technology, my practice is: