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View Poll Results: Where do we go from here? POLL
Nothing - No ACA fixes - status quo 17 29.82%
HHS Rulings and band aid bills 10 17.54%
Hail Mary repeal and/or replace bill 10 17.54%
A bipartisan bill to fix ACA 20 35.09%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-27-2017, 11:17 AM   #31
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It is a clown show!


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ea6c3713d4f6

--Seven (seven!) Republicans voted yesterday against a repeal-only bill -- even though nearly all of them voted for the same bill back in 2015, when it was assured President Obama would veto it. The defectors included: Sens. Susan Collins of Maine (she was the "no" vote previously), Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia, Dean Heller of Nevada, John McCain of Arizona, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Rob Portman of Ohio.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:17 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by junkman View Post
Best idea as fall back position is to simply implement the same insurance options as Congress. We haven't paid for the wars. Why bother to pay for the healthcare implementation? McCain shouldn't have government paid for brain surgery while my friend dies because she's dropped under the crap the Repubs come up with.

Sorry to see McCain go. Still, he shouldn't continue to be the swing vote. Trump and even my Congressman DesJarlais I have less regard for.

As a member of the Senate, he would have the option to take dc healthlink exchange for coverage (Obamacare plans through the DC SHOP exchange). Not the cherry FEHP, not even close.

Or, as an 80-year-old, he might be on Medicare with private supplement.

Or, as a POW/disabled vet he might get VA/Tri-care benefits.

So, you want to eliminate his government-paid-for VA/tri-care benefits?

Or, Medicare, which one? Or a combo of both?
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:46 PM   #33
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@TN, McCain can do as he pleases. My point is that the good folks making decisions on how to respond to current cluster **** that is ACA need to have some skin in the game and have an objective other than avoiding blame.

That said, there is no reason for the VA to do a poor job of duplicating what is readily available in the market. One of the employees at the gym was wounded in one of the recent skirmishes and has had several surgeries at the VA. He has to wait an exceedingly long time because the VA doesn't have enough capacity to handle the load. I think providing services that are not available in the private would be a better use of our dollars. The VA could for example set up some services treating PTSD.

Re: Medicare, I am not a fan of the current plan design. The low deductibles and up front claims paid are expensive ant the 20% liability is unlimited. I am a big fan of HDHP plans especially for those people with money.

Re individual health insurance, if all in government were forced onto whatever program and required to pay the full unsubsidized premium, they would be more amenable to coming up with a plan. That may mean as a condition of being in Congress, they are required to enroll in ACA or the next iteration regardless of anything else that they are eligible for.

The current proposals are simply a poor attempt to look like something is being done and offer no solutions - at all. The current proposal to eliminate the mandate while keeping the pre-ex limits is a sure fire way to guarantee that premiums will jump upwards of 60% and have more carriers drop out.

Carriers know how to run a block of business and the proposals violate all of the requirements. Congress needs to enroll in and pay their premium for whatever they come up with for the rest of us. This has moved past the point where it is no longer amusing and people from the middle class down will be hurt.
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Last edited by junkman; 07-27-2017 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:04 AM   #34
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Everyone ready for Trump's hissy fit that is coming? CSR games?
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:28 AM   #35
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It was a bad bill, GOP has no clue. As long as insurance companies are not allowed to underwrite, premiums will never come down.
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Old 07-28-2017, 12:13 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by bluemarlin08 View Post
It was a bad bill, GOP has no clue. As long as insurance companies are not allowed to underwrite, premiums will never come down.
Premiums are not the real problem. Premiums are just a symptom of the exploding Cost of Care. But I agree that it was a bad bill and that the GOP has no clue... I would extend that to all of Congress.

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I applaud McCain for standing by his morals. We need more Congress-members voting with their heart and soul, not just because party leaders tell them to vote that way. But at the same time, its time they come together and act like adults to at least change things that they are able to agree on as a majority.
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Old 07-28-2017, 12:16 PM   #37
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What's needed (to start) are these three things (neither likely to happen):
  • A bipartisan approach to find the right solution.
  • A recognition that the tail (individual market plus uninsured, which represents less than 20% of the population) is wagging the dog-the group market and Medicare are 2/3 of the population, neither are broken, why mess with it?
  • Maintaining Medicaid benefits in full for the people who truly need it is really important

Here is the breakdown on how people are insured: http://www.kff.org/other/state-indic...2:%22asc%22%7D


ACA 'failed' mainly because it is too complicated and too many special interests are served (also because of the Obama 'if you like your plan, keep it' big lie). There are solutions that would work within parameters that should be acceptable to both sides of the aisle, it's time our elected officials put people in front of politics and did this the right way.
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Old 07-28-2017, 12:28 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by FLM2 View Post
group market and Medicare are 2/3 of the population, neither are broken, why mess with it?
Because Group is one of the biggest things causing problems for the 20% who are not covered by Group or Medicare.

Group Insurance is destroying our economy.
- It gives big corporations a huge edge
- Stifles competition among companies
- Stifles competition in the job market (hurting employees big time)
- And it distorts the risk pool among insurers on a national level (excluding a large portion of lower risk insureds)
- It distorts the view of the majority of citizens to the true cost of insurance (since the employer keeps picking up more and more of the tab over the years)

Im saying this as an agent who still provides group health to clients. I would be happy to give up that income for the best interest of the country.

Also, Group is not broken, but it is increasingly becoming more and more unaffordable. If it keeps at the same rate you will see small business start to drop it in large numbers. My groups got a 17% increase on average this year if I remember correctly. And most have switched to higher deductibles vs. where they started.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:23 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by scagnt83 View Post
Because Group is one of the biggest things causing problems for the 20% who are not covered by Group or Medicare.

Group Insurance is destroying our economy.
- It gives big corporations a huge edge
- Stifles competition among companies
- Stifles competition in the job market (hurting employees big time)
- And it distorts the risk pool among insurers on a national level (excluding a large portion of lower risk insureds)
- It distorts the view of the majority of citizens to the true cost of insurance (since the employer keeps picking up more and more of the tab over the years)

Im saying this as an agent who still provides group health to clients. I would be happy to give up that income for the best interest of the country.

Also, Group is not broken, but it is increasingly becoming more and more unaffordable. If it keeps at the same rate you will see small business start to drop it in large numbers. My groups got a 17% increase on average this year if I remember correctly. And most have switched to higher deductibles vs. where they started.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the group aspects-my small groups haven't had those types of increases the past two years and I seen the availability of group health insurance as a positive as it gives people an incentive to work as well as an ability for businesses to attract top people. And that is based on many years working in Silicon Valley (before entering the insurance business) as well as the past 11 years doing health insurance.
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Old 07-28-2017, 05:07 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by FLM2 View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree on the group aspects-my small groups haven't had those types of increases the past two years and I seen the availability of group health insurance as a positive as it gives people an incentive to work as well as an ability for businesses to attract top people. And that is based on many years working in Silicon Valley (before entering the insurance business) as well as the past 11 years doing health insurance.
Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.

The national average for group increases is above 10% and has been for at least the past few years if I remember correctly.

An incentive to work? Only because there is no good alternative. That in itself is a major issue for our economy. Getting paid should be the main economic incentive to work. "Not dying of disease" should not be the economic incentive to work... that is a MAJOR economic issue.

I dont care about silicon valley. Ive worked with small business owners here in the real world (all over the US) for over a decade. (I even have one or two with locations in Silicon Valley since that seems to mean something to you... LOL)

Many of those small business owners have made more than most who work in silicon valley and have created many more jobs as well. I advise them on not only group insurance, but key-employee benefits and retirement plans too.

Group Health takes up more time and cost vs. any other benefit. The loss of productivity due to it is enormous.

Take away group health and companies would have to compete solely on the merits of their mission, culture, and SALARY.

Take away group health and employees have less to worry about when they are considering changing jobs. "Fear of new Benefits" is one of the top reasons people stay at jobs they hate.

And the #1 reason for people not starting new businesses is the need for group benefits because of medical reasons.

Take away group health and our economy would explode. Many economists are starting to wake up to that realization (those of the Austrian mindset too, not the Keynesian libs). Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger recently made statements very similar to what I just expressed above.

Oh, then there are the actuarial reasons related to providing health insurance in this country.
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Last edited by scagnt83; 07-28-2017 at 05:16 PM.
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Weekly Poll

Where do we go from here? POLL
Nothing - No ACA fixes - status quo
29.82 %
HHS Rulings and band aid bills
17.54 %
Hail Mary repeal and/or replace bill
17.54 %
A bipartisan bill to fix ACA
35.09 %

Voters: 57. This poll is closed