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I want to learn more about HSA Plans. I did a search on them 1st, but could not find the info I'm looking for. I'm ...


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Old 12-12-2008, 10:33 PM   #1
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I want to learn more about HSA Plans. I did a search on them 1st, but could not find the info I'm looking for.

I'm health insurance stupid. Someone was telling me about HSA plans today, and even as a consumer, it sounded good to me.

How do they work and what can you tell me about these plans? I know this is a broad question, but what do you think about HSA plans?
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:35 PM   #2
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They sound good until you go to a specialist and come out with a bill for $600...
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:37 PM   #3
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The best resource I can point to is HSA bank they have online videos and other good tools to education online.

www.hsabankusa.com

Check it out...
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The best resource I can point to is HSA bank they have online videos and other good tools to education online.

HSA Bank - National Leaders in Health Savings Accounts

Check it out...
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Old 12-12-2008, 11:04 PM   #4
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I (we) have an Anthem HSA. It has worked well. Bills are repriced. Preventitive coverage costs very little or nothing.
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Old 12-13-2008, 03:30 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
They sound good until you go to a specialist and come out with a bill for $600...

Nut when you're saving $200 per month on a family plan and 100% covered after deductible, I'll take it everyday!
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Originally Posted by CPACINS View Post
nut when you're saving $200 per month on a family plan and 100% covered after deductible, I'll take it everyday!

Ok, I tried to edit my spelling, but it wouldn't save it, so here is my edited post


But when you're saving $200 per month on a HSA family plan compared to a copay plan and 100% covered after deductible, I'll take it everyday!

Last edited by CPACINS : 12-13-2008 at 03:40 AM. Reason: Posts merged
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Old 12-13-2008, 08:26 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by CPACINS View Post
nut when you're saving $200 per month on a family plan and 100% covered after deductible, I'll take it everyday!
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Ok, I tried to edit my spelling, but it wouldn't save it, so here is my edited post


But when you're saving $200 per month on a HSA family plan compared to a copay plan and 100% covered after deductible, I'll take it everyday!
To edit, click edit then "go advanced" and then save changes instead of quick post. Works every time.
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Old 12-13-2008, 09:19 AM   #7
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They sound good until you go to a specialist and come out with a bill for $600...
Care to explain?
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Old 12-13-2008, 09:43 AM   #8
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Bob, while we are on the topic of re-pricing. From your experience, which carriers offer the best re-pricing? Are all the tier 1 carriers similar in negotiated rates? Or are certain tier 1 carriers better than others. I primarily put my clients with Humana or Golden Rule. Any experience on which carrier delivers a better re-pricing between these two?
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Old 12-13-2008, 09:48 AM   #9
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Go see a cardiologist and see what the repriced bills ends up being
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:30 AM   #10
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I feel the hsa revolution has floped. easy to explain to the husband and he will bite, however..... 6 months later the wife starts complaining about how their coverage sucks cause she has to pay out of pocket and she wants new coverage... wife now takes control of the insurance shoping cause the husband is sick and tired of the bitching, i mean, he is buzy playing golf or watching football and just wants her happy... she goes online and fills out 3 quote request forms and because of the fact she is not normaly the one who shops the insurance gets a policy like NASE or some other crap policy after the 35 agents have told her anything she wants to hear. 1 month later the man calls in and says cancel... u the agent asks why... he says dont bother asking, the wife took it over and switched....u loose the client....

Now, the answer of why did this happen? cause these policies do make financial sense in some cases, rates still need to come down a bit.... but the reason u lost the client? because this country is "trained" to have a copay for doctor visits.... everyone wants group and the copay plans best emulate group...

Solution, if u aint dealing with the wife u could be wasting your time... remember... she is the one that takes the kids to the doctor... not the husband and she has to pay all expenses,repriced or not, out of her slush fund the husband gives her to spend

There u go... understand them now?
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Last edited by Peelerinsurance.com : 12-13-2008 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:31 AM   #11
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Repricing depends on the service and carrier.

I have seen office visit repricing (which customers notice) equal next to nothing, while some lab and xray I have seen repriced at 80 to 90% off.

I almost liked HSA better when you had to be self employed to buy them. The average consumer has a hard time grasping these concepts and managing money.

It is amazing the percentage of consumers that never open the HSA bank account.
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:42 AM   #12
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HSAs should never be sold to people who can barely afford the premiums. You're in trouble when you sell a $250 a month HSA to a prospect who says "I only have $250 to spend."

Those are the people who cannot handle the bills - even inexpensive ones. HSAs are not for everyone. Sell one to a client who's "broke" - they paid their premium yet you're getting the call when they get that $155 office bill.

They are also not priced properly. In many cases I find that the savings are minimal.

They are also hard to sell when you're honest:

Client: "how much will it cost me for an office visit?"

Me: "The truth? Not a faint clue - $50 to $500."

Worse than that, in some cases people to delay seeing a doctor to avoid the bill when they would have gone for a $35 copay.
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:28 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by indmedins View Post
From your experience, which carriers offer the best re-pricing? Are all the tier 1 carriers similar in negotiated rates? Or are certain tier 1 carriers better than others. I primarily put my clients with Humana or Golden Rule. Any experience on which carrier delivers a better re-pricing between these two?
Way, way too broad a question to give any sort of accuate "generalized" answer.

The best new business rates usually mean the best negotiated rates with providers.

Biggest driver is contracted rates with hospital groups. The docs (other than pathologists and anesthesiologists) will usually fall in behind the hospital groups to ensure admitting privledges.

Lots and lots of variation...
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by moonlightandmargaritas View Post
Way, way too broad a question to give any sort of accuate "generalized" answer.

The best new business rates usually mean the best negotiated rates with providers.

Biggest driver is contracted rates with hospital groups. The docs (other than pathologists and anesthesiologists) will usually fall in behind the hospital groups to ensure admitting privledges.

Lots and lots of variation...
Point taken. There are many variables and factors involved in structuring a contracted negotiated rate, that I am certain. What about comparing a tier 1 vs. a tier 2 carrier? Is there a vast difference between contracted negotiated rates between these two carrier classes or is there a similar fee schedule?

Let's say we are talking about an A rated carrier and the plan designs are true major medical. What is the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 carrier? Is it just brand name recognition and network size that makes a tier 1 stand out?

Finally, are tier 1 carrier rates less subject to jump significantly in the upward direction from year to year compared to tier 2 carriers?

Just trying to figure out a little on re-pricing and carrier similarities and differences, that's all. Any comments would be appreciated.
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by indmedins View Post
What about comparing a tier 1 vs. a tier 2 carrier? Is there a vast difference between contracted negotiated rates between these two carrier classes or is there a similar fee schedule?
Excellent question.

The biggest difference is between carriers that own their own network, and those who lease a network.

Obviously, those who have their own have greater control and flexibility. Since more 1st tier carriers will have their own network...
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:46 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by moonlightandmargaritas View Post
Excellent question.

The biggest difference is between carriers that own their own network, and those who lease a network.

Obviously, those who have their own have greater control and flexibility. Since more 1st tier carriers will have their own network...
Okay, that makes sense to me. What is the determining factor that makes a carrier 1st or 2nd tier? I am assuming a handful of 2nd tier carriers own their own network.
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by indmedins View Post
Okay, that makes sense to me. What is the determining factor that makes a carrier 1st or 2nd tier? I am assuming a handful of 2nd tier carriers own their own network.
Everyone has their own criteria naturally, but for me it's brand, and name recognition.

Nearly everyone has heard of Blue Cross, United Healthcare and Humana.

Don't think you can say the same of World, GTL, Avalon, et. al.

I think an example (of what I consider 2nd tier IFP carriers) here in Florida currently would be CoventryOne and CIGNA. While they own their own networks, there's not enough history with them yet.
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:59 PM   #18
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which carriers offer the best re-pricing?
It has nothing to do with the carrier. It is all about the network.

As a general rule, BX usually demands (and get's) the deepest discounts but that does not mean they have the best overall value.

HMO's are not far behind in securing discounts.

What is the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 carrier?
Most tier 1 carriers own their network while tier 2 rent them. Less control when you rent, usually can't get the discounts you need.

Rented networks usually have an advantage if you are marketing in the hinterlands.

are tier 1 carrier rates less subject to jump significantly in the upward direction from year to year compared to tier 2 carriers?
Not really.

Tier 1 carriers can do stupid things just like smaller carriers. The tier 2 carriers usually don't last long when their sins catch up with them.

If you try and play the repricing game you will lose.

You will also lose your client either by boring them or getting into a "how much does this cost" game.

You have to break it down into simple steps, then let them decide.

Take this as an example.

Most folks think they want a copay plan and some will even agree to a $2000 deductible in order to keep the premium affordable.

In this case, Aetna has the best value on a $2k copay plan at $484 per month.

I ask clients to focus on the big claim, the one where the truck runs over you, and ignore the little stuff for now.

When the truck runs over you in that Aetna copay plan you have $4k OOP + copays.

Now it becomes simple by asking this. Would you rather limit your OOP to $3000 and save $56 per month or take on a little extra risk by going to $5000 and save $162 per month.

Most folks can't imagine ever having a large claim so the $5k deductible is an easier sale especially when they pocket $162 x 12 or $1944 per year.

When they ask how much it costs to go to a doc I tell them a ballpark is the deductible +$20.

If they really want to get picky I will play the what if game to a point.

If they take meds it becomes easier because I can get a good price estimate on Rx that makes it simple. It also opens the door to talking about lower cost brand Rx and generics as an easy way to sell.

When you factor in loads for meds the sale becomes easier.

Say they take 2 ratable meds. That means a 50% rate up with Aetna (and most other carriers as well).

The copay premium jumps to $556 while the HSA $5000 increases to $372 for a differential of $184 x 12 = $2208.

Getting them to focus on the premium savings is the key. Every dollar they save in premiums is one less dollar going to the carrier. Once they realize they are funding their own reimbursement under a copay plan vs. the HSA it usually becomes easy.
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Old 12-13-2008, 01:09 PM   #19
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Well, thanks to the both of you. Over and above. Much appreciated.

BTW, that quotit has a nicer look compared to Norvax. I rarely use my QE. I log into my broker sites at the carrier.
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Originally Posted by somarco View Post

If they take meds it becomes easier because I can get a good price estimate on Rx that makes it simple. It also opens the door to talking about lower cost brand Rx and generics as an easy way to sell.

When you factor in loads for meds the sale becomes easier.

Say they take 2 ratable meds. That means a 50% rate up with Aetna (and most other carriers as well).
Where can I go to view network repricing for Rx per each carrier? I can find the retail cost of the Rx, but have no idea what amount the client will be paying for the Rx if in fact the Rx is not ridered out. Is there just a rule of thumb regarding this figure? Humana has a good Rx search, but not all carriers have the same quality search engine.

Actually, brand name Rx rateups frustrate me. I can't estimate the cost of the rateup until UW has at it, hence pre-screens. I've seen rateups as low as 3% and as high at 200% for a family of three all on brand name.

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Old 12-13-2008, 02:54 PM   #20
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Rx pricing isn't available (that I have found) other than with Humana. Most of the other carriers use a PBM and if repricing is available there I haven't found it.

What I do is check pricing with Humana, then throw out prices at Costco & CrossBorder Pharmacy. That gives them a ballpark between the 3 sources.

Again, when you play the "who has the best repricing" you will run into a wall. You don't want to even go there.
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